Tuesday, June 1st 2021

CD Projekt RED Profits Go Downhill Amid Cyberpunk 2077 Delisting from PlayStation Store

CD Projekt RED (CDPR), the maker of popular games like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077, has just published company's quarterly earnings report. The video game maker is responsible for the development of the most anticipated game in the year 2020—Cyberpunk 2077. Featuring Hollywood star Keanu Reeves, the game was teased multiple times with an amazing delay that happened three times. A bug-ridden debut happened and the overall gaming experience was very unpleasant, leading to an unprecedented move from PlayStation maker Sony. The Japanese company has delisted Cyberpunk 2077 from its PlayStation store, which caused a big impact to CDPR's sales figures.

Today, we got the exact details. The Q1 numbers are down, with net profits down by 67% to 32.5 million zlotys (Polish national currency), revenue down 2% to 197.6 million zlotys, and selling costs that soared 79.6% to 62.1 million zlotys. The company shares have tumbled down by around 10% since the Q1 report, closely following the outlook of the quarter. What remains for CDPR is to re-engage the Cyberpunk 2077 community and repair the game so it can reach its full potential, and give players a chance to finally enjoy the whole experience the game has to offer. This will hopefully get the company's financials back on track.
Source: Reuters
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96 Comments on CD Projekt RED Profits Go Downhill Amid Cyberpunk 2077 Delisting from PlayStation Store

#76
AusWolf
DrediHow does one do that on a ps4? I’m pretty sure it already runs at a lower resolution than that.
I thought we all agreed that the game doesn't run well on the PS4, and started talking about PC a long time ago.
DrediIt just could be so much more. How come you are a godlike creature among men in that world? Why has no one else put the same amount of cyberware in their system and stomp you to the ground? Where are the double jumping faster than usain bolt autocrit shotgunning gangsters?

the very beginning of the game was interesting, but you simply get too powerful compared to even any of the bosses later on. Also the ai is shit and never tries to outplay the protagonist in any clever way. They just stand somewhere, take cover and shoot you from time to time, very 90’s if you ask me.
If the game isn't challenging enough, you can always increase the difficulty setting. As for the combat mechanics, you have melee, you can shoot, you have different weapon categories, mods, cyberware, hacking, etc. Even writing this list feels infinitely more exciting to me than shooting nazis or terrorists with real-world weapons for the 865734th time since 1998. If it's not your cup of tea, fair enough. But boring? Come on...
Posted on Reply
#77
Dredi
AusWolfIf the game isn't challenging enough, you can always increase the difficulty setting. As for the combat mechanics, you have melee, you can shoot, you have different weapon categories, mods, cyberware, hacking, etc. Even writing this list feels infinitely more exciting to me than shooting nazis or terrorists with real-world weapons for the 865734th time since 1998. If it's not your cup of tea, fair enough. But boring? Come on...
The problem is that you never have to adjust your play style. You can just shoot/hack your way through everything the same way, without any challenge regardless of the difficulty rating. Challenging games are fun, as they force you to approach things with caution and to adapt your gameplay to the situation at hand. All the mods etc. do are add a bit of damage to some hack or gun, none actually allow you to do things differently, except the jumping legs that somehow no one else in the game world has access to.
AusWolfI thought we all agreed that the game doesn't run well on the PS4, and started talking about PC a long time ago.
I’m pretty sure I never saw @lexluthermiester admit any such thing. To him the ”game is perfect and a blast to play at 720p”.
Posted on Reply
#78
lexluthermiester
DrediHow does one do that on a ps4? I’m pretty sure it already runs at a lower resolution than that.
You can set your PS4 to 720p. Most people set their PS4 up with a 1080p display. You instantly get a performance boost in every game.
DrediI’m pretty sure I never saw @lexluthermiester admit any such thing. To him the ”game is perfect and a blast to play at 720p”.
He was talking about another thread. And yes, I did say that the PS4 experience wasn't great. But it was playable when you dropped the resolution to 720p, especially on the PS4Pro.
Posted on Reply
#79
las
Supporting last gen consoles was a mistake, the jaguar cpu chokes

Who would drop their PS4 Pro to 720p when pretty much everyone that owns a PS4 Pro uses a 4K/UHD HDR TV, 1080p is bare minimum or games will look terrible, experience is ruined regardless

This game is meant to be played on pc and/or next gen consoles, it shines at 4K/UHD running at high settings with HDR.

DLSS Quality Mode allowed me to run 100 fps most of the time on my 3080 with RT disabled, at 2160p. Looks insane in HDR on OLED.
Some of the best HDR I have ever seen in a game. The neon signs almost popped out of the TV..

Game has its moments, far from a failure but could have been better (mods can fix most issues by now)
Posted on Reply
#80
Vayra86
AusWolfAm I not allowed to mention my own experiences of version 1.22 without being lectured on what a sh**storm the launch was? Sheesh. :confused:
Actually... I specifically asked if you recognized my experiences of it, which doesn't eliminate yours, right?

A matter of interpretation. Maybe I should have worded it differently.
AusWolfIf the game isn't challenging enough, you can always increase the difficulty setting. As for the combat mechanics, you have melee, you can shoot, you have different weapon categories, mods, cyberware, hacking, etc. Even writing this list feels infinitely more exciting to me than shooting nazis or terrorists with real-world weapons for the 865734th time since 1998. If it's not your cup of tea, fair enough. But boring? Come on...
The problem isn't the fact they stuffed those options in, the problem is that the options they offer are nowhere near balanced or well executed. Not a single way to approach enemies is, to my taste, executed with any sort of finesse. The quality of AI behaviour plays a big role in this, and on top of that, you get access to ridiculous ways to stack damage that eliminate any sort of tactic or requirement to be good at anything right from the start. The only way story missions avoid that is with lots of scripted events... so if you don't play 'on rails' like they expect you to, you'll see that facade fall off fast, too, and enemies will do stupid things just as well. The last boss fight for example, can be utterly silly if you just run around a bit instead of shooting from cover. The polish comes off entirely and it becomes laughable.

Another example. The shop at the boxing ring near your home (!!) offers a melee weapon, legendary katana, that can straight up win you the game from beginning to end. Its easy to acquire. After that, what are all those skill trees, progression paths and points worth? They're all reduced to nothing other than 'keeping busy' points and map markers. The same goes for how you access tiers of gear and needed skills for it, how they are priced and where they are found. A lot of it never gets placed on your path, I found myself buying straight into the highest tiers of gear, because the bottom tiers already offered stuff that was better.

I showed a video in the CBP2077 topic where I use melee weapons, one hitting nearly anything and never really being threatened in the process. This was after a day of playing the game, never really being serious about minmaxing, and just buying a few weapons at shops I could freely access right away. This is straight up shite game design, there is no other word for it. What other game gives you the tools to complete it within a few hours of starting it up?! It doesn't match with the framework of skill points and RPG progression, choices and approaches at all.

And the funny thing is, that also impacts how 'alive' everything feels. The city that is supposed to be threatening and dystopian, suddenly becomes a complete joke. The lack of interaction with random things and people except those marked on the map, adds to that failure in immersion. Aesthetically, its done well. But the lacking interactivity kills it completely, and shows how fake it is. Like watching a backdrop playing your character in front of a green screen for mocap. They don't really connect.
dyonoctisBecause Cyberpunk is actually a linear game that tried to pass as an immersive open world, setting false expectation for what it really is, and offer. I played the game from start to finish, and I can tell you that the main story and the side quest, are the only things to do in that game, and those are well made, it's the only thing that people who enjoyed the game will talk about (along with the graphics).

A functional police would bring nothing to the table, beside having a laugh when you are bored and decide to murder a bystander, you have nothing to gain by becoming a mass murderer, it doesn't unlock a new story path, nothing.
Actually the simple fact of being able to harm a pnj, is a liability, because you can sometimes hurt someone by accident, and the police will come after you for that, there's no need for "involuntary man slaughter" in video games :D.

Cyberpunk is a bad open world, simulation, sandbox game, but it's a good linear story driven game. Too bad the management tried to market it as the former.
Sums it up well. Its all about expectations you had before going in, but honestly, I would never have paid 60-70 bucks for a 6 hour story with the body it had nor the gameplay it offered. Its a real shame they didn't just own that at CDPR and said, shit, we miscalculated, we're taking another year to really get it done.
Posted on Reply
#81
AusWolf
DrediThe problem is that you never have to adjust your play style. You can just shoot/hack your way through everything the same way, without any challenge regardless of the difficulty rating.
That can be said about the vast majority of games out there, including the most successful ones. Everything builds on one concept.
Vayra86Actually... I specifically asked if you recognized my experiences of it, which doesn't eliminate yours, right?

A matter of interpretation. Maybe I should have worded it differently.
AFAIK, you talked about experiences with the launch version, which yes, I recognised.

Maybe I should have worded it differently too: The fact that the launch version upset a lot of people for various different reasons does not mandate that one should be upset about the game in its current state as well, since many things have been updated. Therefore claims that the game is "broken" and "needs to be fixed" are no longer valid. Whether they were valid at launch is an entirely different topic. As I never played the launch version, I'm not debating it.
Vayra86The problem isn't the fact they stuffed those options in, the problem is that the options they offer are nowhere near balanced or well executed. Not a single way to approach enemies is, to my taste, executed with any sort of finesse.
That's fair enough. Everybody has different tastes.
Vayra86Another example. The shop at the boxing ring near your home (!!) offers a melee weapon, legendary katana, that can straight up win you the game from beginning to end. Its easy to acquire. After that, what are all those skill trees, progression paths and points worth? They're all reduced to nothing other than 'keeping busy' points and map markers. The same goes for how you access tiers of gear and needed skills for it, how they are priced and where they are found. A lot of it never gets placed on your path, I found myself buying straight into the highest tiers of gear, because the bottom tiers already offered stuff that was better.
I'll check that out. I've never bought any weapon in the game to be honest, as the game basically shovels weapons in front of me in every corner. :ohwell:
Vayra86And the funny thing is, that also impacts how 'alive' everything feels. The city that is supposed to be threatening and dystopian, suddenly becomes a complete joke. The lack of interaction with random things and people except those marked on the map, adds to that failure in immersion. Aesthetically, its done well. But the lacking interactivity kills it completely, and shows how fake it is. Like watching a backdrop playing your character in front of a green screen for mocap. They don't really connect.
To me, Night City feels about as interactive as any real-life city. I mean, you don't talk to every second faceless stranger on the street, do you? ;)
Vayra86Sums it up well. Its all about expectations you had before going in, but honestly, I would never have paid 60-70 bucks for a 6 hour story with the body it had nor the gameplay it offered. Its a real shame they didn't just own that at CDPR and said, shit, we miscalculated, we're taking another year to really get it done.
How did you make it a 6-hour story? I currently have 31 hours in the game, and still haven't near finished it, despite barely touching anything else than the main quest(s).

About the last part, I agree (considering experiences with the launch version), though another year would have cost CDPR a fortune.
Posted on Reply
#82
Dredi
AusWolfThat can be said about the vast majority of games out there, including the most successful ones. Everything builds on one concept.
Exactly. Most games are just shit when it comes to challenging players. This one very much included. The only way to get any difficulty in this game is to limit yourself to running around with your bare fists, in the nude, and never getting any cyber enhancements or spending skillpoints.
Posted on Reply
#83
Vayra86
AusWolfThat can be said about the vast majority of games out there, including the most successful ones. Everything builds on one concept.


AFAIK, you talked about experiences with the launch version, which yes, I recognised.

Maybe I should have worded it differently too: The fact that the launch version upset a lot of people for various different reasons does not mandate that one should be upset about the game in its current state as well, since many things have been updated. Therefore claims that the game is "broken" and "needs to be fixed" are no longer valid. Whether they were valid at launch is an entirely different topic. As I never played the launch version, I'm not debating it.


That's fair enough. Everybody has different tastes.


I'll check that out. I've never bought any weapon in the game to be honest, as the game basically shovels weapons in front of me in every corner. :ohwell:


To me, Night City feels about as interactive as any real-life city. I mean, you don't talk to every second faceless stranger on the street, do you? ;)


How did you make it a 6-hour story? I currently have 31 hours in the game, and still haven't near finished it, despite barely touching anything else than the main quest(s).

About the last part, I agree (considering experiences with the launch version), though another year would have cost CDPR a fortune.
The story is simply not much longer, unless you fail and replay missions. A lot of the stuff you do is actually a side mission, and skippable. If you have 31 hours in the game, I think you're doing a lot of stuff you never needed to do. And that's the open world part of it, where you move into the area of all of the game's issues in consistency.

Realistically, you have three parts of the game, the intro with the lockdown and limited freedom of movement which ends with the (awesome) mission in the hotel penthouse to crack that safe, the second part after that lockdown is lifted, and then meeting all the companions and stuff. That companion bit, is entirely optional but many don't view it as such. If you stay close to the main arc of Johnny trying to act tough, the story is very short. Not too short, mind, I think it takes the time it needs for what it wants to tell and you can expand upon it with (some) side missions.

In total my CBP game time was I think 40 hours, and that's including all of the city exploration, side questing and more than half of those hours were acquired after having that final mission step, where the game makes the last save and returns you even if you complete the final mission. Which, again, is another super questionable way to 'end' the game. New game plus is bound to happen, but even so, New Game non plus offers nothing for completing the story, it actually sets you back to pre-completion and despite making a life altering choice, you never see a thing of it in the game.

To be honest, the launch version was fine as the bugs in there could be save scummed or played around, the content inside was and still is the same though. Subsequent patches initially made things worse, even.

As for interactivity. It doesn't mean you can or need to press X with every random guy to receive crappy dialogue. Its about the 'emergent gameplay' that can happen in a truly interactive environment. That is what GTA is, too. Nobody ever said you had to go swinging around your minigun like Rambo in there. Some people do, others want to RP differently. And whén they do, the world responds in kind. Different approaches net different results. Cyberpunk has virtually none of that, and when it happens, it doesn't work properly, the game is really just out to end your session ASAP, there is no other flavor. This makes the entire scenery effectively 'stale' because there is no surprise or secret or interaction to be found. You know its just there for visuals, and even so not all places are equally well done either. That's immersion killer material - you are reminded of how this is a production and not an actual world - budget cuts are visible.

Another such thing is random events. Or the lack of them. Even those gang fights are map marked and always there. No surprise element anywhere, no randomness anywhere, so one visit kills the fun and suspense, but even the very presence kills the immersion of an alive city. How the F do criminals stand around waiting on you to start their triggered event?! And that's what people mean I think when they say things are broken. Its not about clipping errors and stuff. Its about the fundamental concept being 'off', rushed, or just unfinished.
Posted on Reply
#84
las
Vayra86The story is simply not much longer, unless you fail and replay missions. A lot of the stuff you do is actually a side mission, and skippable. If you have 31 hours in the game, I think you're doing a lot of stuff you never needed to do. And that's the open world part of it, where you move into the area of all of the game's issues in consistency.

Realistically, you have three parts of the game, the intro with the lockdown and limited freedom of movement which ends with the (awesome) mission in the hotel penthouse to crack that safe, the second part after that lockdown is lifted, and then meeting all the companions and stuff. That companion bit, is entirely optional but many don't view it as such. If you stay close to the main arc of Johnny trying to act tough, the story is very short. Not too short, mind, I think it takes the time it needs for what it wants to tell and you can expand upon it with (some) side missions.

In total my CBP game time was I think 40 hours, and that's including all of the city exploration, side questing and more than half of those hours were acquired after having that final mission step, where the game makes the last save and returns you even if you complete the final mission. Which, again, is another super questionable way to 'end' the game. New game plus is bound to happen, but even so, New Game non plus offers nothing for completing the story, it actually sets you back to pre-completion and despite making a life altering choice, you never see a thing of it in the game.

To be honest, the launch version was fine as the bugs in there could be save scummed or played around, the content inside was and still is the same though. Subsequent patches initially made things worse, even.

As for interactivity. It doesn't mean you can or need to press X with every random guy to receive crappy dialogue. Its about the 'emergent gameplay' that can happen in a truly interactive environment. That is what GTA is, too. Nobody ever said you had to go swinging around your minigun like Rambo in there. Some people do, others want to RP differently. And whén they do, the world responds in kind. Different approaches net different results. Cyberpunk has virtually none of that, and when it happens, it doesn't work properly, the game is really just out to end your session ASAP, there is no other flavor. This makes the entire scenery effectively 'stale' because there is no surprise or secret or interaction to be found. You know its just there for visuals, and even so not all places are equally well done either. That's immersion killer material - you are reminded of how this is a production and not an actual world - budget cuts are visible.

Another such thing is random events. Or the lack of them. Even those gang fights are map marked and always there. No surprise element anywhere, no randomness anywhere, so one visit kills the fun and suspense, but even the very presence kills the immersion of an alive city. How the F do criminals stand around waiting on you to start their triggered event?! And that's what people mean I think when they say things are broken. Its not about clipping errors and stuff. Its about the fundamental concept being 'off', rushed, or just unfinished.
The game was built like TES games. Some of the sidequests are actually the best ones. So they said (CDP) and this is why you can rush Cyberpunk 2077 in 20-30 hours, which you can't in Witcher 3 for example, which is far more linear and side quests did not get much love.

There's tons of content i Cyberpunk if you complete everything.

Personally I get bored regardless. A huge mainquest line can dry out, but side-quests also drain me if they are too long..

I prefer a solid main quest with 20-40 hours with some optional (good) side quests and this is what Cyberpunk tried to do, and somewhat succeded with and preferably a "end game" mode but this is hard to do i guess, new game plus is not something i do, because i have already seen it all
Posted on Reply
#85
z1n0x
lexluthermiesterYou're also free to embarrass yourself in failing to do so.
What's embarrassing is falling for the hype and paying full price for this shit, instead of waiting till its fixed and on discounted price. But that's on me.
Anyway i'm done here, move on.
Posted on Reply
#86
lexluthermiester
lasWho would drop their PS4 Pro to 720p when pretty much everyone that owns a PS4 Pro uses a 4K/UHD HDR TV, 1080p is bare minimum or games will look terrible, experience is ruined regardless
720p is what's needed to make CP2077 perform on such old hardware and it doesn't look terrible. Certainly not optimal, but it's not the end of the world.. Try it sometime.
lasThis game is meant to be played on pc and/or next gen consoles
Agreed.
z1n0xAnyway i'm done here, move on.
Feel free to do just that.
Posted on Reply
#87
owen10578
TheinsanegamerNGTA V ran fine on the xbox 360, and RDR2 ran fine on the PS4. The PS4 can run horizon zero dawn and spider man without issue as well.

The issue here is not the old hardware, the issue here is the dogshit optimization from CDPR. The game is, from a technical standpoint, blatantly unfinished. The team they hired to replace the original Polish developers doesnt have the skill the polish had, and CP2077 didnt really start development until 2016. 4 years in the oven just wasnt enough for what they wanted to do.

The game was not ported to previous gen consoles, it was MADE for the previous gen consoles, the vast majority of its development the PS5/series X didnt exist. CDPR did a very poor job, and deserved to have their utterly unplayable game taken off of the storefront. If anything, this should have happened more often, maybe then game developers would think twice before releasing unplayable garbage on consoles.. Just Cause 3 should have been taken down years ago, it still doesnt run properly on the base PS4/xbone.
Sorry but GTA V and Horizon Zero Dawn looks nowhere near as good as Cyberpunk in terms of graphics. CDPR pushed the graphics a little too far is what happened. I appreciate it because I can enjoy it but those with lower end hardware suffers because of it.
noel_fsa properly developed piece of software will run the same anywhere you put it, the only variable that will change is the speed

the game runs like dogsh*t because it is dogsh*t

the graphics are hardly next gen

you can show off your powerful hardware but wont change the fact that the game was released as a beta, if you liked it, good for you
Except that's exactly what happened. It ran SLOWER on those old consoles and the bugs were because it was too slow. CDPR should have known so its still their fault for sure, but just saying you can't magically make crap hardware run hard to run graphics.
Posted on Reply
#88
Hawkster222
I pre ordered the game , saw the state it was in and after 15 mins I stopped playing the game.

Definitely going to jam in later the year.
Posted on Reply
#89
AusWolf
Vayra86The story is simply not much longer, unless you fail and replay missions. A lot of the stuff you do is actually a side mission, and skippable. If you have 31 hours in the game, I think you're doing a lot of stuff you never needed to do. And that's the open world part of it, where you move into the area of all of the game's issues in consistency.

(...)

In total my CBP game time was I think 40 hours, and that's including all of the city exploration, side questing and more than half of those hours were acquired after having that final mission step, where the game makes the last save and returns you even if you complete the final mission. Which, again, is another super questionable way to 'end' the game. New game plus is bound to happen, but even so, New Game non plus offers nothing for completing the story, it actually sets you back to pre-completion and despite making a life altering choice, you never see a thing of it in the game.
Wow! That sounds a bit rushed to me, but then I'm the kind of player who never uses fast travel, and likes to look around while going from A to B just to immerse myself in the atmosphere, so what do I know... :)
As a comparison, my last playthrough of The Witcher 3 with both expansions took me about 200 hours.

Another thing: single player campaigns of most modern shooters can be finished in 5 hours tops, but still nobody calls those games broken because of it.
Vayra86As for interactivity. It doesn't mean you can or need to press X with every random guy to receive crappy dialogue. Its about the 'emergent gameplay' that can happen in a truly interactive environment. That is what GTA is, too. Nobody ever said you had to go swinging around your minigun like Rambo in there. Some people do, others want to RP differently. And whén they do, the world responds in kind. Different approaches net different results. Cyberpunk has virtually none of that, and when it happens, it doesn't work properly, the game is really just out to end your session ASAP, there is no other flavor. This makes the entire scenery effectively 'stale' because there is no surprise or secret or interaction to be found. You know its just there for visuals, and even so not all places are equally well done either. That's immersion killer material - you are reminded of how this is a production and not an actual world - budget cuts are visible.
Isn't that the same in every open world RPG? In The Witcher series, guards are pretty much undefeatable (you can't even attack them in the first game), and basically every RPG gamer can quote from Oblivion: "Stop right there, criminal scum", "Stop! You violated the law." Technically, you can murder whole cities in Skyrim, but there's no point in it, and I don't know if it's even possible to shoot civilians in Mass Effect. RPG means role playing game, not god simulator after all.

As for interaction, I personally don't need it with a million people in a metropolis. The people walking next to me in any real-world city are just as faceless and alien to me as NPCs of Night City, and so I'm not actively looking for surprise interactions. If nothing happens and nobody talks to me while I go from A to B, it's perfectly fine. An example from the other side is The Elder Scrolls series, where Bethesda tried to create a world where every NPC has their backstory and life events. It somewhat worked with Oblivion, but (in my opinion) failed with Skyrim because of the short development time. Probably CDPR could have created a more interactive world in another year, but I personally don't require it in a futuristic, dystopian city. The lack of interactions actually add to my feeling of the alienated, empty atmosphere of the post-modern world.
Vayra86Another such thing is random events. Or the lack of them. Even those gang fights are map marked and always there. No surprise element anywhere, no randomness anywhere, so one visit kills the fun and suspense, but even the very presence kills the immersion of an alive city. How the F do criminals stand around waiting on you to start their triggered event?! And that's what people mean I think when they say things are broken. Its not about clipping errors and stuff. Its about the fundamental concept being 'off', rushed, or just unfinished.
I can agree with this. Gang fight markers only clutter the map unnecessarily. Nobody will travel across half the city just to shoot criminals with no connection to any storyline. Though I disagree with calling the game broken because of this, as this is not an error, but a feature that should have been executed differently. It also doesn't affect my immersion with the game. I just disregard these map markers entirely, and treat gang fights as random events (as they should be).
Posted on Reply
#90
noel_fs
owen10578Sorry but GTA V and Horizon Zero Dawn looks nowhere near as good as Cyberpunk in terms of graphics. CDPR pushed the graphics a little too far is what happened. I appreciate it because I can enjoy it but those with lower end hardware suffers because of it.



Except that's exactly what happened. It ran SLOWER on those old consoles and the bugs were because it was too slow. CDPR should have known so its still their fault for sure, but just saying you can't magically make crap hardware run hard to run graphics.
bruv i just said that bugs are not related to speed, period
Posted on Reply
#91
Vayra86
lasThe game was built like TES games. Some of the sidequests are actually the best ones. So they said (CDP) and this is why you can rush Cyberpunk 2077 in 20-30 hours, which you can't in Witcher 3 for example, which is far more linear and side quests did not get much love.

There's tons of content i Cyberpunk if you complete everything.

Personally I get bored regardless. A huge mainquest line can dry out, but side-quests also drain me if they are too long..

I prefer a solid main quest with 20-40 hours with some optional (good) side quests and this is what Cyberpunk tried to do, and somewhat succeded with and preferably a "end game" mode but this is hard to do i guess, new game plus is not something i do, because i have already seen it all
The game was built like TES? Perhaps the map marker part of it, but other than that, it offers nothing that TES does have in terms of RPG.

Its more an RPG like WoW, where the quest marker means you accept a mission and you later return to another NPC with a question mark above his head when finished (practically, be it a map marker or not). Let's be honest here. There is no depth. The best you get is a few different ways to enter buildings. There is a handful of branches and outcomes (rewards, again with no impact on anything else!) off a small selection of side quests - but its very scarce. As far as the side missions being 'hand-crafted' - sure, they built some stuff to get them done, but each is a linear affair with no impact on the rest of the world. Choices are meaningless most of the time, unless they're within the main story arc - and even then it all boils down to one final choice at the end, which is always the same set of options.
AusWolfAnother thing: single player campaigns of most modern shooters can be finished in 5 hours tops, but still nobody calls those games broken because of it.


Isn't that the same in every open world RPG? In The Witcher series, guards are pretty much undefeatable (you can't even attack them in the first game), and basically every RPG gamer can quote from Oblivion: "Stop right there, criminal scum", "Stop! You violated the law." Technically, you can murder whole cities in Skyrim, but there's no point in it, and I don't know if it's even possible to shoot civilians in Mass Effect. RPG means role playing game, not god simulator after all.

As for interaction, I personally don't need it with a million people in a metropolis. The people walking next to me in any real-world city are just as faceless and alien to me as NPCs of Night City, and so I'm not actively looking for surprise interactions. If nothing happens and nobody talks to me while I go from A to B, it's perfectly fine. An example from the other side is The Elder Scrolls series, where Bethesda tried to create a world where every NPC has their backstory and life events. It somewhat worked with Oblivion, but (in my opinion) failed with Skyrim because of the short development time. Probably CDPR could have created a more interactive world in another year, but I personally don't require it in a futuristic, dystopian city. The lack of interactions actually add to my feeling of the alienated, empty atmosphere of the post-modern world.


I can agree with this. Gang fight markers only clutter the map unnecessarily. Nobody will travel across half the city just to shoot criminals with no connection to any storyline. Though I disagree with calling the game broken because of this, as this is not an error, but a feature that should have been executed differently. It also doesn't affect my immersion with the game. I just disregard these map markers entirely, and treat gang fights as random events (as they should be).
Its always a matter of perspective, so here's mine on those points:

- 5 hour SP shooters always offer a multiplayer mode that is actually the bread and butter. See CoD. BF. Etc. Let's compare apples and apples. Such as The Witcher 3, which gave you 200 hours instead of 31. Quite a gap... even with your leisurely stroll through Night City. The gap of 9 hours is a difference between rushing and not doing so... I think that answers it perfectly, you answered yourself that CBP is pretty weak in content - EVEN if you take your time. Let's be lenient and say you get another 50% playtime out of it... still not even close.

- RPG means role play indeed. It means, when caught, like you compare Skyrim, you actually get dialogue that gives you RP options. Go to jail, pay fine, resist arrest. Resisting arrest is NOT a one-hitting guard, its a hard hitting guard that sort of forces you to turn tail and run. Big difference... The game continues unless you really have the death wish and want to fight a force you can't beat - thát is the essence of role play. Role play is not 'you did something wrong - here's death out of a total nowhere with no escape'. A solid RP game, always gives you choices. Even if some aren't always as apparent, but the devs coded those things in, because players must have that idea of freedom of action and choice. That's what makes it 'real' and what makes it RP.

- Mass Effect is not an open world RPG, every NPC is a scene/set piece more so than an actor in a living world with random actions. Its a linear, scripted RPG with lots of branching storylines. Remember: Apples & Apples. Regardless, ME offers more interactivity still with all of those scripted events and tons, literally tons of dialogues and outcomes. Up to and including the total loss of party members etc. CBP? Has it too, but its linear, fixed, and always the same. That's not RP. That's an action game narrative.

- Went over interaction. Its not about talking to every Joe. Its about a world that is more than scenery and with emergent gameplay. All your comparisons have it, except maybe Mass Effect, but CBP does not. Does it need random events every time you walk the street? Ofc not, but nobody ever said that. But it does need some of them. Even The Witcher 3 has them, and they're never really in your way, but do make the world feel more alive. Its a simple concept. Random encounters, something tons of open world games have implemented perfectly. You may not 'need it', but aren't you fooling yourself if you deny its something that should be expected from an open world game?

Dunno man, I kinda read a lot of rose tinted glasses when you're talking about this game, or you really went in with ultra low expectations - if not unrealistically low. I had an initial hype feeling too with this game. The first hours it doesn't wear off, you can have a lot of fun exploring. But when that initial hype comes off and you look back at what you've seen... meh. Unimpressive in many ways, impressive in just a few.
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#92
64K
I think back to all the people on game sites complaining because the game kept getting delayed. Now people are complaining about all the bugs. The solution is obvious but next to impossible for a lot of gamers. Just wait awhile after a game is released. You can probably catch it on sale also.
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#93
AusWolf
Vayra86- 5 hour SP shooters always offer a multiplayer mode that is actually the bread and butter. See CoD. BF. Etc. Let's compare apples and apples. Such as The Witcher 3, which gave you 200 hours instead of 31. Quite a gap... even with your leisurely stroll through Night City. The gap of 9 hours is a difference between rushing and not doing so... I think that answers it perfectly, you answered yourself that CBP is pretty weak in content - EVEN if you take your time. Let's be lenient and say you get another 50% playtime out of it... still not even close.
I never said I finished the game. ;) Now I'm at 37 hours and counting.

In my opinion, multiplayer cannot be regarded as the bread and butter of a game (I know lot of people do, but still), as it is highly dependent on other players. Exceptions are free-to-play games like World of Tanks, and maybe subscription-based ones like World of Warcraft where you only pay for the amount of time you play the game for. If you pay a fixed amount of money for a game, the studio will eventually try to sell you another one as they have to make a living somehow. When that happens, your expensive game turns into a 5-hour single player version, since nobody plays online anymore. You essentially buy the same game with updated graphics and a few extras every year. What's happening with CoD 3497534586 and BF 3597349567 is just plain disgusting, but that's a topic for another day.
Vayra86- RPG means role play indeed. It means, when caught, like you compare Skyrim, you actually get dialogue that gives you RP options. Go to jail, pay fine, resist arrest. Resisting arrest is NOT a one-hitting guard, its a hard hitting guard that sort of forces you to turn tail and run. Big difference... The game continues unless you really have the death wish and want to fight a force you can't beat - thát is the essence of role play. Role play is not 'you did something wrong - here's death out of a total nowhere with no escape'. A solid RP game, always gives you choices. Even if some aren't always as apparent, but the devs coded those things in, because players must have that idea of freedom of action and choice. That's what makes it 'real' and what makes it RP.
That is true. I just had an accident (missed an aim, shot a cop), and the whole world turned against me. I had no choice but to load a saved game.
Vayra86- Mass Effect is not an open world RPG, every NPC is a scene/set piece more so than an actor in a living world with random actions. Its a linear, scripted RPG with lots of branching storylines. Remember: Apples & Apples. Regardless, ME offers more interactivity still with all of those scripted events and tons, literally tons of dialogues and outcomes. Up to and including the total loss of party members etc. CBP? Has it too, but its linear, fixed, and always the same. That's not RP. That's an action game narrative.
I'm not far ahead enough in the game to comment on this. I believe I will have branching choices eventually, but we'll see.
Vayra86- Went over interaction. Its not about talking to every Joe. Its about a world that is more than scenery and with emergent gameplay. All your comparisons have it, except maybe Mass Effect, but CBP does not. Does it need random events every time you walk the street? Ofc not, but nobody ever said that. But it does need some of them. Even The Witcher 3 has them, and they're never really in your way, but do make the world feel more alive. Its a simple concept. Random encounters, something tons of open world games have implemented perfectly. You may not 'need it', but aren't you fooling yourself if you deny its something that should be expected from an open world game?
If it's something you don't need, then how can you feel that it's not there? You only expect it if you compare it to other games, which I'm trying not to.
Posted on Reply
#94
64K
CDPR is trying to take on too much right now. They aren't just working on patching Cyberpunk 2077. They are also working on 2 expansions for the game and have also started working on a new game.
Posted on Reply
#95
Vayra86
AusWolfIn my opinion, multiplayer cannot be regarded as the bread and butter of a game (I know lot of people do, but still), as it is highly dependent on other players. Exceptions are free-to-play games like World of Tanks, and maybe subscription-based ones like World of Warcraft where you only pay for the amount of time you play the game for. If you pay a fixed amount of money for a game, the studio will eventually try to sell you another one as they have to make a living somehow. When that happens, your expensive game turns into a 5-hour single player version, since nobody plays online anymore. You essentially buy the same game with updated graphics and a few extras every year. What's happening with CoD 3497534586 and BF 3597349567 is just plain disgusting, but that's a topic for another day.


If it's something you don't need, then how can you feel that it's not there? You only expect it if you compare it to other games, which I'm trying not to.
We agree completely on that first one, its just how it is though.

And then... you dó compare to other games right? We all do, even if we try not to. You just did so yourself and its not the first time either in this topic. I think its very natural and I think developers do a similar thing. Even more so: they tease(d) games using that frame of reference to begin with.

I wasn't really partial to the internet meme of CBP being another GTA clone, because its really not in many ways, but at the same time, it tries very hard to push GTA buttons all the time, with its map markers, some idea of reputation (and legacy) being something big in Night City (never really works out into a gameplay element other than your progression bar in the menu - another blatant show of missed opportunity and idea lacking implementation, only shop inventory is affected I believe, but I might remember wrong), factions, different megacorps vying for control, etc. etc. etc.

The elements of that are all present, but none of them are really used or worked out in the game. They're just there to frame the world a bit, so to speak, and when you want to get into them, there's a sea of nothing. Maybe that describes the feeling best - something just seems to be missing every time you want to dig deeper than the main story arc, reducing NC to little else but scenery to move from mission to mission.
64KCDPR is trying to take on too much right now. They aren't just working on patching Cyberpunk 2077. They are also working on 2 expansions for the game and have also started working on a new game.
Story of CDPR's life and its management. TW1-3 had a similar aura - and post-release they also had Gwent and some other spin offs to cash out on.

Its up to us to swing the banhammer for the good of the company. I'm not even joking. They're not learning, stubborn as they may be. Meanwhile, talent does leave the company over time, being simply burnt out. Its not good for their prolonged existence if we keep being lenient on that. In TW3, it didn't leak into the final product, but in CBP it certainly did.

I think the community spoke out correctly on this release, and not because it wants to Twitter/Reddit outrage culture-destroy everything, but because its quite simply true and visible, and because there's also a lot of good stuff in the release. It just could've been so much more, and I'm still hoping and sort of trusting CDPR to make that vision a reality.
Posted on Reply
#96
AusWolf
Vayra86The elements of that are all present, but none of them are really used or worked out in the game. They're just there to frame the world a bit, so to speak, and when you want to get into them, there's a sea of nothing. Maybe that describes the feeling best - something just seems to be missing every time you want to dig deeper than the main story arc, reducing NC to little else but scenery to move from mission to mission.

(...)

I think the community spoke out correctly on this release, and not because it wants to Twitter/Reddit outrage culture-destroy everything, but because its quite simply true and visible, and because there's also a lot of good stuff in the release. It just could've been so much more, and I'm still hoping and sort of trusting CDPR to make that vision a reality.
That may be true, though I don't really feel the game to be that much different from other open-world RPGs in terms of using the scenery only to move from mission A to B - that's what I do all the time anyway.

I'm gonna suggest something radical: maybe the game could have been much more if it offered a bit less? I mean, there's crafting in it, but how useful is it? After 39.5 hours (and counting) I still haven't crafted a single thing. You can sleep in your apartment, but it doesn't give you any bonuses, and there's no tiredness meter. You mentioned reputation, which I still haven't figured out. All I know is that I picked up a sniper rifle after about 20-25 hours of game time which I still cannot use because of street rep requirements or something. Gang fights are also kind of pointless. So maybe the game would be better without these features? Maybe CP tries too hard to be a jack of all trades, but it masters none (apart from the story). I still think it's a good game, though.
Vayra86And then... you dó compare to other games right? We all do, even if we try not to. You just did so yourself and its not the first time either in this topic. I think its very natural and I think developers do a similar thing. Even more so: they tease(d) games using that frame of reference to begin with.
You can compare game features, like the graphics or the levelling system, but you cannot compare the game as a whole. There's no other Cyberpunk 2077 out there. It's not GTA, it's not The Witcher 3. What you can compare is how much fun you're having while playing X and Y game, but that's a subjective metric and should not be used to describe which game is better. The only time you can directly compare games, in my opinion, is with different iterations of CoD or BF, as they are nothing more than the same sh** again and again, and maybe with Quake Doom Eternal: Arena and Doom (2016) - edit: scratch that, even these two are completely different on so many levels.

Turning back to a previous topic: if I compare how alive the environment feels in CP and Skyrim for example, CP wins by miles for me. CDPR and Bethesda had two completely different approaches: Bethesda wanted every single NPC to have a backstory and daily activity cycle - which is an excellent idea, but the execution resulted in towns with only a handful of inhabitants, and even the largest cities feeling empty. The only reason it worked with Oblivion is because they had more development time with it, and a smaller map. CDPR on the other hand, went with the nameless, faceless passers-by approach, which I think works just fine for a modern setting, as it perfectly matches the way I feel walking in Birmingham city centre, for example.
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