Thursday, October 7th 2021

Intel CEO Cites Brexit as Reason for Chip Fab Plans in UK Not an Option

In an interview with the BBC, Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger said that the company is no longer considering the UK as a site for a chip fab, due to Brexit, something the company had apparently done prior to Brexit. Now the company is looking for a location in another EU country for a US$95 billion investment for a new semiconductor plant, as well as upgrades to its current plants in Ireland.

Although Intel had not made any firm decisions on a site location prior to Brexit, Gelsinger is quoted as saying "I have no idea whether we would have had a superior site from the UK, but we now have about 70 proposals for sites across Europe from maybe 10 different countries." He continues "We're hopeful that we'll get to agreement on a site, as well as support from the EU... before the end of this year."
Gelsinger also talked about the current chip production imbalance in the world, pointing out that the US only produces some 12 percent of the world's semiconductors, whereas Samsung and TSMC combined, account for nearly 70 percent of the global supply. As such, Intel, as well as US and European politicians want to see a shift towards more locally produced semiconductors. Much of this is in the name of national security, but then you'd expect there to be a push for a lot more things to be produced locally in addition to just semiconductors.

There's no doubt that Intel's new-ish CEO likes to make bold statements, as he's quoted saying "This is an industry that we created in the US, Intel's the company that puts silicon into Silicon Valley," when asked if Intel can maintain its leading edge versus its Asian competitors. In all fairness, he continues "But we realise these are good companies, they're well capitalised, they're investing, they're innovating together. So we have to re-earn that right of unquestioned leadership."

In the same interview, he states that he's not expecting the current chip shortage to stabilise until 2023, although things should apparently improve come next year. In other words, expect a lot of soft packages from Santa this year and maybe even next year.
Source: BBC News
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100 Comments on Intel CEO Cites Brexit as Reason for Chip Fab Plans in UK Not an Option

#26
Chomiq
Vayra86... to smoke a fag and get back in there



Farage disagrees! So there's that, and the British seem fine with that train of thought - that is, the pub frequenters. The younger generation apparently doesn't vote quite enough... a problem a lot of democracies suffer from in the EU right now.

So long fabs.
Posted on Reply
#27
windwhirl
lynx29So why isn't AMD taking those slots as they have a lot of demand for them? that's all I meant. eh it doesn't matter
Because they would have to redesign everything for a new node and also risk a lot of yield.

Besides, that would create an unbalance in the PS5 models, as some would be equipped with 3nm and others with 7 nm.
Vayra86The younger generation apparently doesn't vote quite enough...
The younger generation can be full of idiots too.
Posted on Reply
#28
chrcoluk
ValantarI mean, it doesn't take genius-level logic to understand that "billion-dollar investment for production of export-oriented products in a country with no functional trade deals and no foreseeable path towards them" is a pretty bad idea.
Brexit is anti trade.

Prior to brexit I could order goods from any EU country as if I was buying from the UK, Even shipping costs were similar.

Now its claimed to be tariff free, but I have to pay VAT twice, import fees to the courier, and possible import duty depending on the product.

There is a clear aim here to drag uncompetitive British companies out of the mire by having them not need to compete with EU businesses for trade.

Some EU traders have stopped selling to the UK altogether, as they now consider it too much hassle.

Why would a manufacturing plant that distributes around the EU, be placed in the UK, everything in and out is subject to border control, its just too much hassle for any business, so the news is no surprise.
Posted on Reply
#29
Valantar
windwhirlBecause they would have to redesign everything for a new node and also risk a lot of yield.

Besides, that would create an unbalance in the PS5 models, as some would be equipped with 3nm and others with 7 nm.
Yep, and a redesign for a different node isn't something that's done in a minute. It's more likely that they'll plan for multi-sourcing of the PS5 Slim/Pro and/or Xbox Series X XT XL XFX Xtra X-Files, not something that's likely to be done for an already taped-out and in mass production chip with a relatively short (~3 years before a shrunken refresh) lifespan.
windwhirlThe younger generation can be full of idiots too.
Oh, absolutely. Young people are by no means immune to propaganda either.
Vayra86Farage disagrees!
Well, he does seem to be in possession of a singular intellect.
Vayra86So there's that, and the British seem fine with that train of thought - that is, the pub frequenters. The younger generation apparently doesn't vote quite enough... a problem a lot of democracies suffer from in the EU right now.
Absolutely, but don't underestimate the effects of the massive amounts of money poured into the leave campaign, nor the effectiveness of xenophobia and related rhetoric in this type of campaign. It's sad how effective simple but blatantly false statements are in winning people over, as long as you're there early and often and the opposition is left constantly saying "well, actually ..."
Posted on Reply
#30
Metroid
Intel ceo did it right, if he built in the uk then other eu countries would charge tax because uk is not in the eu, I would build all in ireland.
Posted on Reply
#31
lynx29
MetroidIntel ceo did it right, if he built in the uk then other eu countries would charge tax because uk is not in the eu, I would build all in ireland.
ya headphone company Sennheiser has a big factory in Ireland now too. Ireland is booming. I hated living there though, the traffic is horrible... x amount of people y amount of land... it just isn't adding up anymore... :/
Posted on Reply
#32
awesomesauce
lynx29why the hell is Sony not taking those Intel spots then? I want a PS5 :(
you know you need more than a chip to make a PS5 right?
Posted on Reply
#33
lynx29
awesomesauceyou know you need more than a chip to make a PS5 right?
hmm perhaps you are right and the factories are at max capacity
Posted on Reply
#34
AusWolf
ChomiqIt's the will of the people...





...that just walked out of local pub.
It's the failure of democracy. If the slight majority is ignorant as F, you'll have a whole country going down the drain.
Vayra86The younger generation apparently doesn't vote quite enough... a problem a lot of democracies suffer from in the EU right now.
Because your only choice to vote is usually "Shit A" versus "Shit B". You'll get screwed over anyway. Also, the thinking minority can never win over the dumb majority.
Posted on Reply
#35
Valantar
AusWolfIt's the failure of democracy. If the slight majority is ignorant as F, you'll have a whole country going down the drain.


Because your only choice to vote is usually "Shit A" versus "Shit B". You'll get screwed over anyway. Also, the thinking minority can never win over the dumb majority.
Yep, that's the problem of poorly handled democracy, especially in a country with a particularly undemocratic version of it (winner-takes-all/"first past the post" elections in single-representative contituencies, which in theory means that a party with 50.00000000001% of the votes can get 100% of representatives, though it's rarely that bad irl). Couple that with a functional two-party system (with an irrelevant hanger-on for legitimacy) where the parties spend far more time shouting at each other than debating policy, and people quickly lose faith in democracy being anything but a system rigged to keep a certain group of people in high-paying jobs.
Posted on Reply
#37
phanbuey
windwhirlBecause they would have to redesign everything for a new node and also risk a lot of yield.

Besides, that would create an unbalance in the PS5 models, as some would be equipped with 3nm and others with 7 nm.


The younger generation can be full of idiots too.
+1

That I think was the overlooked win for Intel with RocketLake - the chip sucked sure. But the processes that they developed to move designs across nodes are going to be hugely important to them especially servicing new customers. Great video about this here:

Rocket Lake is a Success for Intel - YouTube
Posted on Reply
#38
AusWolf
ValantarYep, that's the problem of poorly handled democracy, especially in a country with a particularly undemocratic version of it (winner-takes-all/"first past the post" elections in single-representative contituencies, which in theory means that a party with 50.00000000001% of the votes can get 100% of representatives, though it's rarely that bad irl). Couple that with a functional two-party system (with an irrelevant hanger-on for legitimacy) where the parties spend far more time shouting at each other than debating policy, and people quickly lose faith in democracy being anything but a system rigged to keep a certain group of people in high-paying jobs.
I haven't seen anything but poorly handled democracy in my life.

The 50.0001% choice you mentioned is exactly why brexit happened. I believe people should not be asked, or even allowed to vote on matters that they have no chance to acquire adequate knowledge about, especially if it's a "yes or no" kind of thing. The neighbour's grass is always greener, so the results of such polls are manipulated and easily predictable. As an IT analogy, if you'd asked people "is AMD shit?" 5 years ago, the majority would have said yes. If you ask people "is Intel shit?" right now, the majority will say yes. Some will say no, of course, but not many will say "well, it depends" or "let me elaborate on that". Few have the perspective and critical thinking skills to realise that the truth isn't black or white.

My opinion might not be very popular in the 21st century, but I think democracy as a political system is a failure on its own because 1. it gives power to common people who are inherently stupid and vote for people/parties of their own likeness, aka. just as stupid as they themselves, and 2. it puts disagreeing parties into temporary power, essentially allowing them the chance to get rich on state money in a short period of time, then F off without any responsibility for their actions. There's so many statesmen in a country that you don't even see where all the money disappears, or who's fault this or that bad decision is. I wouldn't want to live in the middle ages by far, but waring dynasties at least had an interest in staying in power and making sure they left a flourishing kingdom/empire for their children to rule over.
Posted on Reply
#39
The Quim Reaper
BBC reporter goes fishing for anti Brexit headline.

Shock! Horror!



..Quickly followed by the resident TechPower UP Remoaner Twats, saying why a democratic referendum should be ignored....because they know better than the horrid little working class plebs, that don't agree with their self entitled, Middle Class World view.
Posted on Reply
#40
LemmingOverlord
Let's be really clear about this: Intel has NEVER invested in the UK. Period. It invested in Ireland because Ireland offered the only thing that matters to Intel: tax relief. (see Apple's tax debacle, too)

It's like Spain asking if Intel will invest there. No. It won't. There's no advantage to it. Labor is too expensive and not enough tax relief to bolster the company's bottom line.

There are several countries in the EU that play by their own rules when it comes to taxation (Netherlands and Ireland being two prime examples), and who will always be at an unfair advantage until Brussels forces them to align taxation with the rest of the eurozone. As an EU national, I hope there will one day be a reckoning with side-dealers.

Even AMD only invested in Germany because Germany secured billions from EU and federal financing to build up the economy of former GDR states. That turned out great, right?
Posted on Reply
#41
Vayra86
LemmingOverlordLet's be really clear about this: Intel has NEVER invested in the UK. Period. It invested in Ireland because Ireland offered the only thing that matters to Intel: tax relief. (see Apple's tax debacle, too)

It's like Spain asking if Intel will invest there. No. It won't. There's no advantage to it. Labor is too expensive and not enough tax relief to bolster the company's bottom line.

There are several countries in the EU that play by their own rules when it comes to taxation (Netherlands and Ireland being two prime examples), and who will always be at an unfair advantage until Brussels forces them to align taxation with the rest of the eurozone. As an EU national, I hope there will one day be a reckoning with side-dealers.

Even AMD only invested in Germany because Germany secured billions from EU and federal financing to build up the economy of former GDR states. That turned out great, right?
As a Dutch citizen, I hope for the same retribution. Its nonsensical and we're not even getting the tax income we do ask for.
Posted on Reply
#43
AusWolf
The Quim ReaperBBC reporter goes fishing for anti Brexit headline.

Shock! Horror!



..Quickly followed by the resident TechPower UP Remoaner Twats, saying why a democratic referendum should be ignored....because they know better than the horrid little working class plebs, that don't agree with their self entitled, Middle Class World view.
... quickly followed by resident democracy distributors and freedom fighters who think their version of democracy is the only way, and everyone who doesn't believe in the blooming 21st century world peace and the God-Almighty 'Murican dual party system / the enlightened European talky-talky-sleepy-sleepy politics should be nuked. Don't take it personally. ;)
LemmingOverlordLet's be really clear about this: Intel has NEVER invested in the UK. Period. It invested in Ireland because Ireland offered the only thing that matters to Intel: tax relief. (see Apple's tax debacle, too)

It's like Spain asking if Intel will invest there. No. It won't. There's no advantage to it. Labor is too expensive and not enough tax relief to bolster the company's bottom line.

There are several countries in the EU that play by their own rules when it comes to taxation (Netherlands and Ireland being two prime examples), and who will always be at an unfair advantage until Brussels forces them to align taxation with the rest of the eurozone. As an EU national, I hope there will one day be a reckoning with side-dealers.

Even AMD only invested in Germany because Germany secured billions from EU and federal financing to build up the economy of former GDR states. That turned out great, right?
This sounds logical.
Posted on Reply
#44
Valantar
The Quim ReaperBBC reporter goes fishing for anti Brexit headline.

Shock! Horror!



..Quickly followed by the resident TechPower UP Remoaner Twats, saying why a democratic referendum should be ignored....because they know better than the horrid little working class plebs, that don't agree with their self entitled, Middle Class World view.
Ah, so a direct negative consequence of Brexit for the UK - the loss of a chance to even be in the running for a large-scale industrial project with thousands of jobs - should just be ignored, and not reported on? That's an interesting angle.
AusWolfI haven't seen anything but poorly handled democracy in my life.
You should come to the Nordics :) Our systems are far from perfect, but they do work pretty well. There's a high level of trust, a lot of cooperation, a relatively low level of shit-flinging, and low degrees of corruption. Still plenty of issues, to be sure, but we're overall doing pretty okay.
AusWolfThe 50.0001% choice you mentioned is exactly why brexit happened. I believe people should not be asked, or even allowed to vote on matters that they have no chance to acquire adequate knowledge about, especially if it's a "yes or no" kind of thing. The neighbour's grass is always greener, so the results of such polls are manipulated and easily predictable. As an IT analogy, if you'd asked people "is AMD shit?" 5 years ago, the majority would have said yes. If you ask people "is Intel shit?" right now, the majority will say yes. Some will say no, of course, but not many will say "well, it depends" or "let me elaborate on that". Few have the perspective and critical thinking skills to realise that the truth isn't black or white.

My opinion might not be very popular in the 21st century, but I think democracy as a political system is a failure on its own because 1. it gives power to common people who are inherently stupid and vote for people/parties of their own likeness, aka. just as stupid as they themselves, and 2. it puts disagreeing parties into temporary power, essentially allowing them the chance to get rich on state money in a short period of time, then F off without any responsibility for their actions. There's so many statesmen in a country that you don't even see where all the money disappears, or who's fault this or that bad decision is. I wouldn't want to live in the middle ages by far, but waring dynasties at least had an interest in staying in power and making sure they left a flourishing kingdom/empire for their children to rule over.
I can't quite say I share your view, but I understand it. The thing is, functional democracy has been under systematic attack since ... well, let's say the 1960s or thereabouts - it's hard to draw a line, and this differs based on where you are, but that's roughly when neoliberalism started making itself known. Most democratic European countries in the ~2 decades immediately past WWII had a high level of trust in government and relatively well-functioning systems of government (though these had severe issues of their own, such as an inability to deal with racist, colonialist and classist baggage), but neoliberal politicians in the late 60s or 70s started propagating the idea that government was inherently wasteful (rather than fulfilling a highly necessary function of any large-scale society), and that in the name of "efficiency" we should start counting and measuring everything in order to "reduce waste" through budget cuts. Which has the funnny (and largely intended) consequence of making government fundamentally dysfunctional, as the focus becomes on reporting and measuring rather than governing and doing the things that need doing, leading to the seemingly paradoxical outcome of ever more bloated beaureaucracies and ever less effective governance. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but it really shouldn't be surprising that if you ask someone to please start documenting every single thing they do, in detail, across ever more complex reporting systems, they will have less time to actually do their jobs. And when coupled with budget cuts (=less staff), this is just exacerbated. Which, of course, the neoliberals then use as proof that government is indeed bloated and ineffective, and should be further downsized. Of course the idea of economic "freedom" through deregulation is used as a key selling point for all of this, while consistently failing to address how deregulation inherently favors those who are already wealthy and powerful. It's consistently baffling to me how these policies have continued to gain public traction, but then leftist politicians have also failed to effectively counteract this incredibly damaging ideology (in part because of its own insistence on not being an ideology (but rather framing it as the absence of ideology, as if this was somehow a "natural state"), making it inherently slippery and difficult to argue against). Half a decade into the throes of neoliberal domination of world politics and economics, we have yet to properly find a functional alternative to it that also addresses the inherent flaws of Keynesian economic theory, which is at least part of the reason why we're stuck in a downward spiral (that often looks like an upward spiral unless you start asking questions). And due to the majority of people alive today never knowing another way of thinking, it's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine an alternative. Late-stage capitalism eats everything, and promptly sells it back to us for a profit.
Posted on Reply
#45
AusWolf
ValantarYou should come to the Nordics :) Our systems are far from perfect, but they do work pretty well. There's a high level of trust, a lot of cooperation, a relatively low level of shit-flinging, and low degrees of corruption. Still plenty of issues, to be sure, but we're overall doing pretty okay.
To be honest, if I had a job waiting for me, and I wasn't so scared to live with my very basic Swedish skills (and the missus with none) - most of which I've probably forgotten, I would. :) I did my uni exchange studies in Finland and absolutely loved it. But back to topic:
ValantarI can't quite say I share your view, but I understand it. The thing is, functional democracy has been under systematic attack since ... well, let's say the 1960s or thereabouts - it's hard to draw a line, and this differs based on where you are, but that's roughly when neoliberalism started making itself known. Most democratic European countries in the ~2 decades immediately past WWII had a high level of trust in government and relatively well-functioning systems of government (though these had severe issues of their own, such as an inability to deal with racist, colonialist and classist baggage), but neoliberal politicians in the late 60s or 70s started propagating the idea that government was inherently wasteful (rather than fulfilling a highly necessary function of any large-scale society), and that in the name of "efficiency" we should start counting and measuring everything in order to "reduce waste" through budget cuts. Which has the funnny (and largely intended) consequence of making government fundamentally dysfunctional, as the focus becomes on reporting and measuring rather than governing and doing the things that need doing, leading to the seemingly paradoxical outcome of ever more bloated beaureaucracies and ever less effective governance. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but it really shouldn't be surprising that if you ask someone to please start documenting every single thing they do, in detail, across ever more complex reporting systems, they will have less time to actually do their jobs. And when coupled with budget cuts (=less staff), this is just exacerbated. Which, of course, the neoliberals then use as proof that government is indeed bloated and ineffective, and should be further downsized. Of course the idea of economic "freedom" through deregulation is used as a key selling point for all of this, while consistently failing to address how deregulation inherently favors those who are already wealthy and powerful. It's consistently baffling to me how these policies have continued to gain public traction, but then leftist politicians have also failed to effectively counteract this incredibly damaging ideology (in part because of its own insistence on not being an ideology (but rather framing it as the absence of ideology, as if this was somehow a "natural state"), making it inherently slippery and difficult to argue against). Half a decade into the throes of neoliberal domination of world politics and economics, we have yet to properly find a functional alternative to it that also addresses the inherent flaws of Keynesian economic theory, which is at least part of the reason why we're stuck in a downward spiral (that often looks like an upward spiral unless you start asking questions). And due to the majority of people alive today never knowing another way of thinking, it's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine an alternative. Late-stage capitalism eats everything, and promptly sells it back to us for a profit.
Late stage it is. Inflation and chaos are growing bigger day by day. All I'm wondering is when the bubble's gonna pop, and what comes next.
Posted on Reply
#46
Valantar
AusWolfLate stage it is. Inflation and chaos are growing bigger day by day. All I'm wondering is when the bubble's gonna pop, and what comes next.
If I were to guess, more of the same, just worse. That's one of the inherent logics and functions of late stage capitalism, it will absorb and subsume literally anything into itself, including movements and ways of thinking that grew out of direct opposition to it. Anything can be commoditized; anything can be made reproducible and profitable as long as you're unscrupulous enough about it. That's the problem: without a clear-cut, understandable and practically applicable alternative with a clear vision, any response to the suffering our current system ensure will just lead to a slightly transformed version of the same system. We saw that after the 2008 recession, we saw that after the dot-com bubble, we largely saw that after the 2015-ish oil price crash, etc. And every change, no matter which way it goes, will be used as an argument for further deregulation and further deconstruction of government by "conservative" politicians. Economy doing well? We don't need that huge government, business can handle itself. Economy doing badly? The public sector is choking on ineffective bureaucracy, we need to cut spending. And 'round and 'round it goes, till we're left with an oligarchy that pretends to be democratic and pretends that socioeconomic mobility exists, while reality strongly contradicts that. Oh, wait, I'm describing the US now. Sorry.
Posted on Reply
#47
TheinsanegamerN
"due to brexit" with 0 details, and with "80" alternative plans, this is all a political cover for "we got lower cost proposals from other parts of the EU". TPTB have been using "brexit" as the scapegoat for shortages ina ll sorts of industries, despite said shortages existing long before the first talks of brexit hit the airwaves.

Just the latest punching bag for globalists to blame for everyone not following brussels like blind sheep.

Keep in mind that Pat, the current CEO, is from the era of intel using anti competitive business practices against AMD, and recently said "intel is back" with nothing to back it up. The man is full of hot air and isnt afraid to jump on political train to make himself look like the good guy.

www.techspot.com/news/91591-intel-ceo-pat-gelsinger-declares-intel-back-interview.html
Posted on Reply
#48
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
ValantarIf I were to guess, more of the same, just worse. That's one of the inherent logics and functions of late stage capitalism, it will absorb and subsume literally anything into itself, including movements and ways of thinking that grew out of direct opposition to it. Anything can be commoditized; anything can be made reproducible and profitable as long as you're unscrupulous enough about it. That's the problem: without a clear-cut, understandable and practically applicable alternative with a clear vision, any response to the suffering our current system ensure will just lead to a slightly transformed version of the same system. We saw that after the 2008 recession, we saw that after the dot-com bubble, we largely saw that after the 2015-ish oil price crash, etc. And every change, no matter which way it goes, will be used as an argument for further deregulation and further deconstruction of government by "conservative" politicians. Economy doing well? We don't need that huge government, business can handle itself. Economy doing badly? The public sector is choking on ineffective bureaucracy, we need to cut spending. And 'round and 'round it goes, till we're left with an oligarchy that pretends to be democratic and pretends that socioeconomic mobility exists, while reality strongly contradicts that. Oh, wait, I'm describing the US now. Sorry.
The U.S. is being pushed to Marxism.
Posted on Reply
#49
klf
eidairaman1The U.S. is being pushed to Marxism.

13 people in one launch :rockout: iagine if China take Iranian space man to
....

yes my dear , world is changing,,, taiwan will be own,, Chinese))
simpy why usa can go to war.. becose in debt economy cannot .. even without war will need somebody" in world to buy usa state obligations in 40 trillions in next few years...and there is noobody state in world who want it..)) maybe tools" in brittain :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#50
Why_Me
AusWolfIt's the failure of democracy. If the slight majority is ignorant as F, you'll have a whole country going down the drain.


Because your only choice to vote is usually "Shit A" versus "Shit B". You'll get screwed over anyway. Also, the thinking minority can never win over the dumb majority.
Failure of democracy eh. More Brits than naught voted for independence from Brussels ... that's how democracy worked with Brexit.
ValantarI mean, it doesn't take genius-level logic to understand that "billion-dollar investment for production of export-oriented products in a country with no functional trade deals and no foreseeable path towards them" is a pretty bad idea.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Intel is about to receive billions of US taxpayer dollars for a new chip foundry and part of that deal is to screw the Brits. The current US administration is no friend to democracy.

deja vu.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-36115138
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