Friday, November 19th 2021

AMD to Steer Motherboard Partners Away from Intel WLAN, Toward MediaTek Co-branded Ones

Intel has dominated the client Wi-Fi + Bluetooth network adapter market in the PC space for some time now, particularly with WiFi 6 and WiFi 6E interfaces integrated with motherboards. Even on the AMD platform, motherboard vendors have extensively packaged not just Intel-branded WiFi + Bluetooth modules, but also their wired LAN controllers. In the commercial desktop and commercial notebook markets, Intel leverages this position to push its vPro management suite, with Intel WLAN controllers featuring vPro support. This is something felt lacking in the rival AMD PRO ecosystem, and something the company is looking to change with its collaboration with MediaTek.

AMD RZ660 will be the first controller based on this partnership. Based on the MediaTek Filogic 330P chipset, the controller combines WiFi 6E (6 GHz), with the latest generation Bluetooth (at least Bluetooth 5.2). Driver software and support for this solution will be handled by AMD, as would distribution. MediaTek stated that the first notebooks and desktop PCs (includes DIY motherboards) featuring the AMD RZ660 will debut in 2022. The AMD-supplied driver software would also enable the company to create special "PRO" variants of the RZ660 to bundle with its Ryzen PRO SoCs for the commercial PC and workstation markets. There doesn't appear to be any such collaboration with wired Ethernet, as there is an even competition between Intel and Realtek over the 2.5 GbE PHY market, with both companies offering gaming-specific variants—Intel Killer and Realtek DragonLAN.
Add your own comment

75 Comments on AMD to Steer Motherboard Partners Away from Intel WLAN, Toward MediaTek Co-branded Ones

#26
Valantar
bugYes, both AMD and MediaTek are practically legendary for their driver support :rolleyes:
AMD's drivers have been on the range from 'good' to 'excellent' for their major product lines for quite a few years now, so... meh. Yes, early Ryzen had chipset driver issues, and yes, there have been GPU driver issues at times, but neither are significant enough to undermine the overall quality of their drivers. That there have been hardware/firmware bugs (RX 5700 XT issues; B550 USB bug) doesn't change this.
Posted on Reply
#27
Unregistered
bugYes, both AMD and MediaTek are practically legendary for their driver support :rolleyes:
No clue what you're on about. My 5700 XT drivers were...great. :laugh:
#28
TheLostSwede
stimpy88Just because you have a positive bias towards them, you cannot be angry or dismiss somebody who has the opposite bias. We are both right, we are both wrong. I won't change my opinion, and neither will you.

You carry on advocating for them, and I will carry on advocating against them. Our experiences are polar opposites, both based on fact.

My opinion is that many people, especially those that will be building AMD systems (not the general public who does not even know what a NIC is) would rather have an Intel based networking product, over most other solutions. Maybe I'm wrong, but sales and the marketing out there seem to prove otherwise. If it is simply false that Intel provides superior networking products, then why are they all over the premium offerings? Rightly or wrongly, there is often a stigma attached to low cost Chinese or Taiwanese networking products, often based on driver quality or raw throughput and CPU usage numbers being worse than Intels offerings. And I've have seen and experienced this first-hand, many times over the years.

At the end of the day, if I am provided a choice of two motherboards at a similar price and all other features the same, but one of them offers an Intel network interface, and the other a MediaTek, I will gladly pay a reasonable premium for the Intel solution. If that's just me, them I'm an idiot, but a happy one.
I was angry? I have bias? Sorry, but you're making shit up now and that's making me angry.

I simply stated that there's nothing wrong with their products. Take it or leave it. Instead you're accusing me of things that didn't happen.
Posted on Reply
#29
bug
ValantarAMD's drivers have been on the range from 'good' to 'excellent' for their major product lines for quite a few years now, so... meh. Yes, early Ryzen had chipset driver issues, and yes, there have been GPU driver issues at times, but neither are significant enough to undermine the overall quality of their drivers. That there have been hardware/firmware bugs (RX 5700 XT issues; B550 USB bug) doesn't change this.
The while "FineWine" is a testament to AMD's inability to extract a good chunk of performance from their own products.
Sure "for quite a few years" they did better, but I know AMD for longer than that ;)
Posted on Reply
#30
TheDeeGee
stimpy88Yeah, nice work there AMD. It would actually put me off buying a board with cheap crap components with awful drivers.

Anyone still having fun waiting for working drivers for the Realtek 2.5GB LAN?

Intel LAN/WLAN/BT are the gold standard for both hardware and software.
Zero issues with Realtek LAN driver on my ASRock Z590 Steel Legend.
Posted on Reply
#31
ARF
thewanGoogling your wifi adapter model says otherwise.
What does "googling" say?
What if I tell you that my WiFi adapter has been rock solid?
Posted on Reply
#32
Valantar
bugThe while "FineWine" is a testament to AMD's inability to extract a good chunk of performance from their own products.
Sure "for quite a few years" they did better, but I know AMD for longer than that ;)
And? Are reputations eternal? Does change not matter? It sounds like you are literally arguing that "their drivers were poor a decade ago, so they make bad drivers, regardless of recent history."

Also, there is no "fine wine", at least not for GPUs since Polaris and Vega, but arguably earlier too. The Fury series has marginally lost performance (a few %) relative to the GTX 980/Ti, for example. There have been plenty of investigations into this, and performance changes over time are marginal, barring game specific driver improvements and drivers for new architectures maturing (which has been pretty rapid in recent years).
Posted on Reply
#33
ARF
bugThe while "FineWine" is a testament to AMD's inability to extract a good chunk of performance from their own products.
Sure "for quite a few years" they did better, but I know AMD for longer than that ;)
No, it means that 16GB on the Radeon RX 6800 XT will make sure the Radeon will perform better and for much longer period of time than the 10GB GeForce RTX 3080 lol
Posted on Reply
#34
Tigger
I'm the only one
Steer, does that mean bribe? Or try and convince them not to use Intel products
Posted on Reply
#35
qcmadness
TiggerSteer, does that mean bribe? Or try and convince them not to us Intel products
AMD will sell re-branded Mediatek products along with their chipset offerings.
Posted on Reply
#36
chrcoluk
have realtek added basic features like interrupt moderation to their 2.5 gbit nics?

all my realtek lans still dont have the feature

also whilst their windows drivers are ok they still seem to have issues on bsd and linux.
Posted on Reply
#37
bug
TiggerSteer, does that mean bribe? Or try and convince them not to us Intel products
Probably means their reference design/platform won't be using Intel chips anymore.
If they can do it for cheaper, good for them. If they sell at the same price point, there's little reason not to go with the proven solution.
ValantarAnd? Are reputations eternal? Does change not matter? It sounds like you are literally arguing that "their drivers were poor a decade ago, so they make bad drivers, regardless of recent history."

Also, there is no "fine wine", at least not for GPUs since Polaris and Vega, but arguably earlier too. The Fury series has marginally lost performance (a few %) relative to the GTX 980/Ti, for example. There have been plenty of investigations into this, and performance changes over time are marginal, barring game specific driver improvements and drivers for new architectures maturing (which has been pretty rapid in recent years).
I'm arguing anything. I'm just saying, given what I know of AMD and MediaTek, I don't have high hopes for these.
Posted on Reply
#38
Chris34
lol mediatek lan are complete bs. No driver support and all.
Posted on Reply
#39
ncrs
chrcolukalso whilst their windows drivers are ok they still seem to have issues on bsd and linux.
From my experience the 2.5Gbit/s drivers are flaky both under Windows and Linux. On Windows 10 I've been through 4 revisions of the driver and in the end I gave up and installed a 10GBit/s Aquantia card instead. The issue was very subtle and hard to diagnose: after a few hours everything would crawl to just few bytes a second over the Realtek link. It wasn't broken - no errors, just worked very slow - turning the device off and on resolved it... for a while.
On Linux I've had also subtle problems with running LACP over 2 of those 2.5Gbit/s chips, they would generally work fine but only some long-term connections would get broken suddenly. Very hard to catch and even harder to diagnose. I've even tested multiple switches, cables. Switching just the network card to Intel resolved it. This was even harder to diagnose since it's a QNAP NAS and they are pretty locked-out.
My anecdotal experience suggests that those Realtek 2.5GBit/s solutions are not that stable ;) I haven't had any problems with their 1GBit/s solutions.
Posted on Reply
#40
bug
Chris34lol mediatek lan are complete bs. No driver support and all.
True, but it looks like AMD will be handling the software for these.
Posted on Reply
#41
TheLostSwede
TiggerSteer, does that mean bribe? Or try and convince them not to use Intel products
It most likely means AMD will offer a more competitively priced products to the OEMs.
It's normally how this is done, no need for bribes if a company can save $1 per product.
chrcolukhave realtek added basic features like interrupt moderation to their 2.5 gbit nics?

all my realtek lans still dont have the feature

also whilst their windows drivers are ok they still seem to have issues on bsd and linux.
BSD has been fixed afaik. There was an official driver to solve the issues people were having.
Not having had any issues in Linux on embedded Arm based systems, but maybe the x86/x64 drivers are different.
Chris34lol mediatek lan are complete bs. No driver support and all.
Because they do the same thing as Qualcomm, Broadcom and several other companies, they rely on the OEM to provide drivers to their customers, which in this case will be AMD.
If they OEM doesn't provide drivers, you're SOL as an end user.
However, they do provide drivers to OEMs, I know this as a fact, as I've worked with them in the past. That said, it took them a month to accept the fact that there was an issue and then another two months to fix the problem. This was for one of their router WiFi solutions.
Posted on Reply
#42
TheinsanegamerN
Oh great, more garbage for AMD boards. It's funny, I'm getting flashbacks to the via chipset and nforce AMD boards, and what trash they were......

Intel wireless/ethernet is the gold standard. ESPECIALLY for linux. Mediatek can go suck start a shotgun, and realtek isnt worth the mud on my shoe.
Posted on Reply
#43
seth1911
Intel have pretty good drivers across all OS, Windows for sure but there are great one for Linux and BSD too.

Seems to be AMD force the priority standard and not the standard across all OS :laugh:


Mediatek maybe they will do it on a good way, but i dont think so :rolleyes:
rares495No clue what you're on about. My 5700 XT drivers were...great. :laugh:
A Friend did 6 RMA for his 5700 XT and still have Stutters via HDMI Audio, this Card is a pice of shit for 399$ :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Atm u cant even get a Card for a good price, so he did the only thing he can be life with it,
connect the Audio 3.5 from the PC to its AVR.


The GT 710 from my Fun Build today can handle 4 HDMI Ports, what a shame a 60$ card can things what a 399$ can´t. :nutkick:
Posted on Reply
#44
Valantar
rares495No clue what you're on about. My 5700 XT drivers were...great. :laugh:
There has never been any proof of the 5700 XT issues being driver based, and their persistence and randomness in who experiences them seems more indicative of a hardware, hardware interaction, or firmware bug. That something else causes the driver to crash is not proof of a driver issue.
TiggerSteer, does that mean bribe? Or try and convince them not to use Intel products
Likely just giving good bundle prices for buying wlan units alongside the cpu and chipset. Just like Intel does with their in-house stuff.
bugI'm arguing anything. I'm just saying, given what I know of AMD and MediaTek, I don't have high hopes for these
And I'm saying AMD has demonstrated for half a decade that they can make good, feature rich, stable and frequently updated drivers if they put in the effort. Hence my first post in this thread.
Posted on Reply
#45
bug
ValantarAnd I'm saying AMD has demonstrated for half a decade that they can make good, feature rich, stable and frequently updated drivers if they put in the effort. Hence my first post in this thread.
They did up their game, but I take it you're not a Linux user...
Posted on Reply
#46
Unregistered
ValantarThere has never been any proof of the 5700 XT issues being driver based, and their persistence and randomness in who experiences them seems more indicative of a hardware, hardware interaction, or firmware bug. That something else causes the driver to crash is not proof of a driver issue.
I really don't care at this point. I used to own a 5700 XT, had lots of issues, saw many people have issues => AMD bad. What's worse is nobody actually tried to help. They all made it seem like I was imagining things or that something else in my PC was broken so they recommended every trick in the book despite me telling them that my system is fine. They kept insisting that there's no way AMD did something wrong.
#47
Valantar
bugThey did up their game, but I take it you're not a Linux user...
They've improved there as well, though it's clearly not as good. Still, it's not like there are anyone doing better there...
Posted on Reply
#48
seth1911
Intel have the best open source drivers, for nearly anything they sell.

Gaming on Linux is for some People a thing, i did test it a little bit with low end but nearly same GFLOPS on some Games the result are this:
UHD 630 430 GFLOPS - 30 FPS Intel open source driver
GT 710 OC to 450 GFLOPS - 30 FPS priority driver
R7 240 500 GFLOPS - 25 FPS priority driver
Posted on Reply
#49
Valantar
seth1911Intel have the best open source drivers, for nearly anything they sell.

Gaming on Linux is for some People a thing, i did test it a little bit with low end but nearly same GFLOPS on some Games the result are this:
UHD 630 430 GFLOPS - 30 FPS Intel open source driver
GT 710 OC to 450 GFLOPS - 30 FPS priority driver
R7 240 500 GFLOPS - 25 FPS priority driver
Did you do the same comparison on Windows? FLOPS-to-gaming performance comparisons across architectures are always very problematic due to architectural differences as well as driver differences.
Posted on Reply
#50
ShurikN
Considering what garbage Intel's AX 200 is on my board, I welcome this with open arms.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment