Thursday, March 17th 2022

AMD's Robert Hallock Confirms Lack of Manual CPU Overclocking for Ryzen 7 5800X3D

In a livestream talking about AMD's mobile CPUs with HotHardware, Robert Hallock shone some light on the rumours about the Ryzen 7 5800X3D lacking manual overclocking. As per earlier rumours, something TechPowerUp! confirmed with our own sources, AMD's Ryzen 7 5800X3D lacks support for manual CPU overclocking and AMD asked its motherboard partners to remove these features in the UEFI. According to the livestream, these CPUs are said to be hard locked, so there's no workaround when it comes to adjusting the CPU multiplier or Voltage, but at least AMD has a good reason for it.

It turns out that the 3D V-Cache is Voltage limited to a maximum of 1.3 to 1.35 Volts, which means that the regular boost Voltage of individual Ryzen CPU cores, which can hit 1.45 to 1.5 Volts, would be too high for the 3D V-Cache to handle. As such, AMD implemented the restrictions for this CPU. However, the Infinity Fabric and memory bus can still be manually overclocked. The lower Voltage boost also helps explain why the Ryzen 7 5800X3D has lower boost clocks, as it's possible that the higher Voltages are needed to hit the higher frequencies.
That said, Robert Hallock made a point of mentioning that overclocking is a priority for AMD and the Ryzen 7 5800X3D is a one off when it comes to these limitations. The reason behind this is that AMD is limited by the manufacturing technology available to the company today, but it wanted to release the technology to consumers now, rather than wait until the next generation of CPUs. In other words, this is not a change in AMD's business model, as future CPUs from AMD will include overclocking.

Hallock also explained why AMD didn't go with more cores for its first 3D V-Cache CPU and it has to do with the fact that most workloads outside of gaming don't reap much of a benefit. This is large due to how different applications use cache memory and when it comes to games, a lot of the data is being reused, which is a perfect scenario for a large cache, whereas something like video editing software, can't take advantage of a large cache in the same way. This means that AMD's secret to boosting the performance in games is that more game data ends up sitting closer to the CPU, which results in a 12 ns latency for the CPU to retrieve that data from the L3 cache, compared to 60-80 ns when the data has to be fetched from RAM. Add to this the higher bandwidth of the cache and it makes sense how the extra cache helps boost the performance in games.

For more details, please see video below. The interesting part starts around the 45:30 mark.

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222 Comments on AMD's Robert Hallock Confirms Lack of Manual CPU Overclocking for Ryzen 7 5800X3D

#1
mama
Fair enough.
Posted on Reply
#2
Selaya
i guess too much voltage will just fry the cache?
well, too bad i guess
Posted on Reply
#3
Lenne
S.T.A.R.S.
I still guess that there's PBO which auto overclocks it with safe voltages.
Posted on Reply
#4
TheLostSwede
Selayai guess too much voltage will just fry the cache?
well, too bad i guess
That does seem to be the case, yes.
MaenadFINI still guess that there's PBO which auto overclocks it with safe voltages.
He didn't explicitly say that, but he seemed to imply so, yes. Apparently it's not possible to link to exact time codes on TPU, so updated with where the interesting part starts.
Posted on Reply
#5
Lenne
S.T.A.R.S.
TheLostSwedeHe didn't explicitly say that, but he seemed to imply so, yes. Apparently it's not possible to link to exact time codes on TPU, so updated with where the interesting part starts.
Mmkay, post updates when you get more info :)
Posted on Reply
#6
DemonicRyzen666
So why does it have an X in its name then?
it's not Ryzen 5800X 3D
it's a ryzen 5800 3D
Posted on Reply
#8
Lenne
S.T.A.R.S.
TheLostSwedeThe non X models can still be overclocked manually.

If you follow the link below and select Unlocked for Overclocking from the menu on the left, you'll see that the non X models are included.
www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/processors/11776%201736%201896%202466
Yep, every (at least desktop, dunno about mobile ones) Ryzen is unlocked so far, 5800X3D just breaks this rule. AMD doesn't have special unlocked SKUs like Intel's K ones.
DemonicRyzen666So why does it have an X in its name then?
it's not Ryzen 5800X 3D
it's a ryzen 5800 3D
Why not? The X ones have higher frequency than non-X's. And since this is a boosted one via the 3D cache, the X monicker is deserver even tho it's a locked SKU.
Posted on Reply
#9
Nephilim666
How will it fare against an overclocked i5-12600k or i7-12700k I wonder...
Posted on Reply
#10
Jism
I think you can still fiddle around with bclk. But once that DRAM starts to suffer from electromigration, your toast. Cache processes all the data so it could ruin the CPU workings completely.
Posted on Reply
#11
Calmmo
A cpu that can only operate between 1.3 and 1.35v... minor details, i guess they were waiting for these to be out in the wild to reveal a minor flaw like this :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#12
GoldenX
So Curve Optimizer will make this CPU shine.
Posted on Reply
#13
TheLostSwede
CalmmoA cpu that can only operate between 1.3 and 1.35v... minor details, i guess they were waiting for these to be out in the wild to reveal a minor flaw like this :laugh:
No, not only between, up to. Edited the news post for clarification.
Posted on Reply
#14
ratirt
not a big deal for me to be honest. The CPU does not benefit largely from CPU OC but memory and Infinity Fabric. These bring most performance gains.
For a first 3Dv-cache run as a try out CPU, not surprised.
Posted on Reply
#15
Tomorrow
So i assume only the VCORE voltage is locked to 1.35v max?

SOC, VDDP and VDDG are not locked?

I will wait for reviews and decide then if i will go with 5800X3D for games or 5950X for apps that rely on high clock speeds. Thankfully 5950X has come down in price. Now under 600€. That used to be 5900X territory. I will get a nice performance boost regardless coming from 3800X.
Posted on Reply
#16
Chomiq
What's the actual street date for release of 5800X3D and 5700X?
Posted on Reply
#17
Mats
MaenadFINWhy not? The X ones have higher frequency than non-X's. And since this is a boosted one via the 3D cache, the X monicker is deserver even tho it's a locked SKU.
It is faster because of the 3D cache, hence the "3D" in the name.

It shouldn't be a "X" because it's not higher clocked than a 5800.

Pretty self explanatory to me.
Posted on Reply
#18
TheLostSwede
ChomiqWhat's the actual street date for release of 5800X3D and 5700X?
20th of April apparently.
Ended up ordering a 5800X, as they dropped to $15 more than the MSRP of the 5700X here, pretty much over night.
Posted on Reply
#20
ExcuseMeWtf
I guess OC is becoming dead nowadays, even unlocked CPUs have little headroom and boost themselves nicely anyways.
Posted on Reply
#21
DeathtoGnomes
Nice Write up @TheLostSwede

I was kind of thinking to not wait and buy that 5800x3d, almost. I want to upgrade now, its so hard not to go nuts now, but I think the wait for next gen and am5 will be well worth that wait.
Posted on Reply
#22
TheLostSwede
DeathtoGnomesNice Write up @TheLostSwede

I was kind of thinking to not wait and buy that 5800x3d, almost. I want to upgrade now, its so hard not to go nuts now, but I think the wait for next gen and am5 will be well worth the wait.
The question is what the AM4 platform as a whole will cost.
That said, considering how long you've waited, you might as well try to make it another six months and skip straight to a DDR5 platform, be that from AMD or Intel.
Posted on Reply
#23
Melvis
MaenadFINYep, every (at least desktop, dunno about mobile ones) Ryzen is unlocked so far, 5800X3D just breaks this rule. AMD doesn't have special unlocked SKUs like Intel's K ones.


Why not? The X ones have higher frequency than non-X's. And since this is a boosted one via the 3D cache, the X monicker is deserver even tho it's a locked SKU.
Its the Xtreme!!! Gaming Processor ;)
Posted on Reply
#24
DeathtoGnomes
TheLostSwedeThe question is what the AM4 platform as a whole will cost.
That said, considering how long you've waited, you might as well try to make it another six months and skip straight to a DDR5 platform, be that from AMD or Intel.
Assuming the supply problems are 'more functional' in 6-9 months, AM4 build costs will be interesting to see after launch.
Posted on Reply
#25
Tomgang
I guess that explains the lower core clocks. It's because of the lower voltage and none oc. Meh It's not a chip for me then.

Stick to my 5600X and 5950X.

Bit fair enough if the v-cashe could be damaged. Let's just hope that is not the case for Zen 4 as well. Can you imagine all Zen 4 cpu being locked for OC?
Posted on Reply
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