fevgatosWhat exactly are those scummy practices? What morally bankrupt actions are you talking about? Id like to know, if that's the case I won't buy nvidia either

Did you read the article you're commenting under?

A few more from the past:

AusWolfDid you read the article you're commenting under?

A few more from the past:

The only questionable thing of those 3 is the 1030. The rest are fine, I don't see any problem.

But then again AMD does similar practices, like with the cut lanes on their cheaper cards, requireing PCIE 4 platforms to work properly.

fevgatosThe only questionable thing of those 3 is the 1030. The rest are fine, I don't see any problem.

So cutting components off of similarly named products and lying about actual useful VRAM capacity is fine. Well... suit yourself, I guess.

fevgatosBut then again AMD does similar practices, like with the cut lanes on their cheaper cards, requireing PCIE 4 platforms to work properly.

No company is perfect. But at least AMD's x4 lane PCI-e 4.0 connection isn't a lie.

Another one (if the above didn't move you, then this one won't either, but anyway):

AusWolfSo cutting components off of similarly named products and lying about actual useful VRAM capacity is fine. Well... suit yourself, I guess.


No company is perfect. But at least AMD's x4 lane PCI-e 4.0 connection isn't a lie.

Another one (if the above didn't move you, then this one won't either, but anyway):

They never lied about vram capacity, the 970 does indeed have 4 gb of ram. Regarding the 1060, nobody cares. You should watch reviews before buying a product, and buy the product that performs as well as you want it to perform. I bought a 1060 3gb, I watched a review and I liked it's performance compared to the price, I found it more vfm than the 1060 6gb. So, where is the issue exactly? I really don't get it

fevgatosThey never lied about vram capacity, the 970 does indeed have 4 gb of ram. Regarding the 1060, nobody cares. You should watch reviews before buying a product, and buy the product that performs as well as you want it to perform. I bought a 1060 3gb, I watched a review and I liked it's performance compared to the price, I found it more vfm than the 1060 6gb. So, where is the issue exactly? I really don't get it

It's not the same product as the 1060 6 GB, but it bears the same name. Whether you personally found its performance acceptable or not is irrelevant. To stay on topic: it's the same thing with the 4080 12 GB in question. If this is all OK, then maybe Ford should produce a Mustang that is electric and actually a crossover. Oh wait, they did! And guess what, everybody hates them for it.

"Read reviews" is easy to say from someone who is generally interested in tech. Most people aren't and they don't even know where reviews are or how to interpret them.

AusWolfIt's not the same product as the 1060 6 GB, but it bears the same name. Whether you personally found it acceptable or not is irrelevant. To stay on topic: it's the same thing with the 4080 12 GB in question.

"Read reviews" is easy to say from someone who is generally interested in tech. Most people aren't and they don't even know where reviews are or how to interpret them.

If this is all OK, then maybe Ford should produce a Mustang that is electric and actually a crossover. Oh wait, they did! And guess what, everybody hates them for it.

But if you don't watch any reviews, why would you buy a 4080? I mean even if there was only the 16gb 4080 model, without seeing reviews - why the heck would you buy it??? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I assume people are paying to buy performance, not a model number. By not watching a review - you are not buying performance - you are buying a model number. That's totally on you, not on nvidia.

Let's say next month the 4080 16gb hits the shelves for the same price as the 3090ti. If you don't watch a review, which one would you buy and why? I really don't get your point honestly.

fevgatosBut if you don't watch any reviews, why would you buy a 4080? I mean even if there was only the 16gb 4080 model, without seeing reviews - why the heck would you buy it??? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I assume people are paying to buy performance, not a model number. By not watching a review - you are not buying performance - you are buying a model number. That's totally on you, not on nvidia.

Let's say next month the 4080 16gb hits the shelves for the same price as the 3090ti. If you don't watch a review, which one would you buy and why? I really don't get your point honestly.

You say that because you're interested in tech - like I said, most people aren't. They just want to play games. Do you think everybody who buys a pre-built knows what's in it? And even if they do, do they know what the model numbers mean? What you're saying is basically the same as expecting every single person in the world to service their own cars.

Let me demonstrate with an actual conversation that I had with a colleague of mine not long ago:
Him: "My son plays games."
Me: "I play games too."
Him: "Ah, so you have one of those fancy computers too?"
Me: "Yep."
Him: "What Core is it? i5? i7?"
Me: "i7."
Him: "Wow, that's awesome!"

Or another one:
Him: "Would X game run on my daughter's laptop?"
Me: "I don't know. What kind of laptop is it?"
Him: "Lenovo. About 5 years old."

fevgatosThe only questionable thing of those 3 is the 1030. The rest are fine, I don't see any problem.

But then again AMD does similar practices, like with the cut lanes on their cheaper cards, requireing PCIE 4 platforms to work properly.

The GTX 970 was fine or did you mean fined because they absolutely were sued over that 3.5GB VRAM fiasco.

InVasManiThe GTX 970 was fine or did you mean fined because they absolutely were sued over that 3.5GB VRAM fiasco.

I dont care if it was fined or not. It was by far the best vfm card of its generation, whether it had 4gb or 4kb shouldnt matter. For example the review from this very site gave it a recommendation and called it EXCELLENT for its price. So if the performance is excellent for the price, what difference does it make if it has 4gb, 1gb or no vram at all?

The exact same thing happened to amd with their bulldozer cpus. They got sued because it wasn't a real 8 core or whatever. Who freaking cares, you buy it for the performance, if the performance is there then whether it has 1 core or 5000 of them is irrelevant

AusWolfYou say that because you're interested in tech - like I said, most people aren't. They just want to play games. Do you think everybody who buys a pre-built knows what's in it? And even if they do, do they know what the model numbers mean? What you're saying is basically the same as expecting every single person in the world to service their own cars.

Let me demonstrate with an actual conversation that I had with a colleague of mine not long ago:
Him: "My son plays games."
Me: "I play games too."
Him: "Ah, so you have one of those fancy computers too?"
Me: "Yep."
Him: "What Core is it? i5? i7?"
Me: "i7."
Him: "Wow, that's awesome!"

Or another one:
Him: "Would X game run on my daughter's laptop?"
Me: "I don't know. What kind of laptop is it?"
Him: "Lenovo. About 5 years old."

What difference would it make for these people though? I mean a prebuild with an xx80 and an i7 or i9 would cost what, over 2 - 2.5k. If someone spends that amount of money on a computer and has absolutely no idea what he is buying, its noones fault but his.

I would have an issue if both cards were called 4080 (like it happened with the 1030 you mentioned before), but since there is an extra moniker im personally fine with it.

fevgatosBut if you don't watch any reviews, why would you buy a 4080? I mean even if there was only the 16gb 4080 model, without seeing reviews - why the heck would you buy it??? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I assume people are paying to buy performance, not a model number. By not watching a review - you are not buying performance - you are buying a model number. That's totally on you, not on nvidia.

Let's say next month the 4080 16gb hits the shelves for the same price as the 3090ti. If you don't watch a review, which one would you buy and why? I really don't get your point honestly.

By having two different products bearing the same name you're implying the performance is the same with the only difference being the memory size. The fact that a potential buyer with no technical knowledge cannot ascertain that there is in fact a performance difference between the two makes it misleading, third party reviews are irrelevant. False adverting is 100% on the manufacturer, they're compelled by the law to provide accurate information about their products that wont mislead the consumer, this isn't subjective or a matter of opinion. You think Nvidia backed down on this naming scheme for no reason ? Of course not, they knew very well what they were doing was misleading, they just got too much shit for it and decided that it's better to ditch the names before they find themselves in legal trouble.

Just as a real life example, I actually have a friend who didn't know there was a performance difference between the 12Gb and 16Gb until I explained it to him and he's not a moron, he wasn't going to buy one anyway and if he looked into it more carefully I am sure he would have realized they're not the same but it goes to show how easy it to mislead people.

I guess you just can't understand the concept of false advertising for some reason. That's fine, you should apply for a marketing position at Nvidia, they'd love you.

Vya DomusBy having two different products bearing the same name you're implying the performance is the same with the only difference being the memory size. The fact that a potential buyer with no technical knowledge cannot ascertain that there is in fact a performance difference between the two makes it misleading, third party reviews are irrelevant. False adverting is 100% on the manufacturer, they're compelled by the law to provide accurate information about their products that wont mislead the consumer, this isn't subjective or a matter of opinion. You think Nvidia backed down on this naming scheme for no reason ? Of course not, they knew very well what they were doing was misleading, they just got too much shit for it and decided that it's better to ditch the names before they find themselves in legal trouble.

Just as a real life example, I actually have a friend who didn't know there was a performance difference between the 12Gb and 16Gb until I explained it to him and he's not a moron, he wasn't going to buy one anyway and if he looked into it more carefully I am sure he would have realized they're not the same but it goes to show how easy it to mislead people.

I guess you just can't understand the concept of false advertising for some reason. That's fine, you should apply for a marketing position at Nvidia, they'd love you.

So you are saying nvidia, a multibillion dollar company, didnt know they would have legal trouble until just today? Lol, ok buddy, maybe you should apply for a marketing position.

What does it even mean to be misled. If you dont watch any reviews how would you freaking know how the 16gb version performs? If you dont know how the 16gb version performs how and why would you assume it performs similar to the 12gb? And what is similar even mean if you have no idea how either of them perform?

Im sorry but if you walk into a shop and randomly buy a gpu based on the name, nvidia misleading you should be the least of your concerns.

fevgatosSo you are saying nvidia, a multibillion dollar company, didnt know they would have legal trouble until just today?

What I am saying is that Nvidia, a multibillion dollar company, wouldn't have thrown down the drain god knows much marketing and time and effort spent working with AIBs for a product that they now wont launch, for no good reason.

And this is not even me saying that it's misleading by the way, Nvidia said so, you know, the multibillion dollar company :

www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/12gb-4080-unlaunch/

fevgatosSo you are saying nvidia, a multibillion dollar company, didnt know they would have legal trouble until just today? Lol, ok buddy, maybe you should apply for a marketing position.

What does it even mean to be misled. If you dont watch any reviews how would you freaking know how the 16gb version performs? If you dont know how the 16gb version performs how and why would you assume it performs similar to the 12gb? And what is similar even mean if you have no idea how either of them perform?

Im sorry but if you walk into a shop and randomly buy a gpu based on the name, nvidia misleading you should be the least of your concerns.

What happens when some less informed buyers view 4080(16) reviews and then mistakenly run off to their local stores to pick up a 4080(12) prebuilt. Unfortunately not everyone is well-informed with manipulating complex SKU-disparities or the technical know-how to fully recognise what they're buying into. Hence there are consumer regulations in place to keep buyers protected to some degree. Likewise if it didn't require extensive reading (reviews) and some tech-know-how familiarity even I would have been misled with DLS 3.0 performance charts. Thanks to the TPU fam (and others), i can now make a more informed decision by giving DLS-3 a boot in the teeth and focus in areas where raw performance and relative latencies matter. Again, unfortunately for the less informed, those very same charts will be a hoodwinked deciding factor in determining where their hard earned cash is spent.

And this "multibillion dollar company" is no stranger to "class action lawsuits". Big Daddy global brutes naturally serving their busienss interests - it happens, nothing surprising... only it should be met with consumer/reviewer/newsflash criticism to keep damages/consumer manipulation/market turbulence at a minimum.

Also lets not forget the BIG elephant in the room.... 4080-16 with an exaggeratedly embellished asking price of "$1200". Thats right the XX80 horizon is now set at twelve hundred dollars. No doubt, they had to justify the XX80-wedge with a massive leap in MSRP in some way, shape or form.... "ah ha! throw the fools a 2-piece 4080 designation with the lesser part for $300 less and we'll be smooth sailing". Even $900 for a lacklustre entry level 80-part is absurd - no thanks!! NVIDIA will make money regardless... so business as usual for them but broader consumer expectations and impending upgrades have been shot 6 feet under so lets not be surprised at the elevated level of criticism.

fevgatosWhat difference would it make for these people though? I mean a prebuild with an xx80 and an i7 or i9 would cost what, over 2 - 2.5k. If someone spends that amount of money on a computer and has absolutely no idea what he is buying, its noones fault but his.

I would have an issue if both cards were called 4080 (like it happened with the 1030 you mentioned before), but since there is an extra moniker im personally fine with it.

An extra moniker that indicates nothing but a difference in VRAM capacity. It's not the same as AMD's RX 480 4 GB and 8 GB were. They're completely different cards at completely different performance levels.

So you're saying that fooling buyers who don't browse tech sites every day like you or I do is fine? Personally, I find it disgusting. I know a little bit about cars, but I won't study to become a mechanic just to buy one.

AusWolfAn extra moniker that indicates nothing but a difference in VRAM capacity. It's not the same as AMD's RX 480 4 GB and 8 GB were. They're completely different cards at completely different performance levels.

So you're saying that fooling buyers who don't browse tech sites every day like you or I do is fine? Personally, I find it disgusting. I know a little bit about cars, but I won't study to become a mechanic just to buy one.

You really actually think that nvidia was trying to fool buyers? Im with you on the fact that the 2 gpus sharing the same name is stupid to say the least, i just dont think nvidia did it to fool anyone. I dont see any benefit from them for doing so

Vya DomusWhat I am saying is that Nvidia, a multibillion dollar company, wouldn't have thrown down the drain god knows much marketing and time and effort spent working with AIBs for a product that they now wont launch, for no good reason.

And this is not even me saying that it's misleading by the way, Nvidia said so, you know, the multibillion dollar company :

www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/12gb-4080-unlaunch/

You said that they would have legal issues, meaning that they didn't know it for the last few months and realised it yesterday... If you still cant admit that your point was just not making much sense i dont see the point of arguing with you

fevgatosYou really actually think that nvidia was trying to fool buyers? Im with you on the fact that the 2 gpus sharing the same name is stupid to say the least, i just dont think nvidia did it to fool anyone. I dont see any benefit from them for doing so

Yes. The benefit is being able to sell it for more money than it's worth. The 2070 and 3070 both started at an MSRP of $499, so a 4070 for $900 would have looked bad. Very bad.

So let me get this straight it wasn't misleading and Nvidia's just being a Karen and canceling it's own GPU product launch because it could buy a egg McNuffin at McDonald's after 12!!?

AusWolfYes. The benefit is being able to sell it for more money than it's worth. The 2070 and 3070 both started at an MSRP of $499, so a 4070 for $900 would have looked bad. Very bad.

Then where is the line? Let's say there was only one model of the 4080, and it was slower than the 3080. Are you saying that's misleading? Are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to release such a product? I mean come on, you shouldn't buy anything based on the name. You should check reviews - period. Especially now, that it seems like the 4080 and the 3090 / 3090ti will be at similar prices, there is no way to choose one over the other unless you check reviews.

fevgatosThen where is the line? Let's say there was only one model of the 4080, and it was slower than the 3080. Are you saying that's misleading? Are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to release such a product? I mean come on, you shouldn't buy anything based on the name. You should check reviews - period. Especially now, that it seems like the 4080 and the 3090 / 3090ti will be at similar prices, there is no way to choose one over the other unless you check reviews.

Who said the 4080 will be slower than the 3080? What you're saying has no connection to my point at all. You're speaking in hypotheticals, whereas I started facts regarding actual products and pricing.

A discussion about 970? A good card. I used it for offline raytracing. nVidia implemented direct cudacore support and gave iRay away, for creatives with low budged who wanted to gain experience in photorealistic renders. It did its job until I upgraded to 2070. I bought it, because of its wide range of capabilities for an acceptable price and excellent software support. Cudacore was working in many entry 3D apps. AMD had nothing nearly as good and is still far behind in professional software support. Of course, I bought the card after the slower connection of 500mb VRam became known. As I always say, everybody has to inform itself and its always recommended, not to buy products as an early adopter. It is currently my reserve card and still works perfectly.

Vya DomusAnd this is not even me saying that it's misleading by the way, Nvidia said so, you know, the multibillion dollar company :

They won't be able to mislead informed consumers. Kindergarten.

SisyphusA discussion about 970? A good card. I used it for offline raytracing. nVidia implemented direct cudacore support and gave iRay away, for creatives with low budged who wanted to gain experience in photorealistic renders. It did its job until I upgraded to 2070. I bought it, because of its wide range of capabilities for an acceptable price and excellent software support. Cudacore was working in many entry 3D apps. AMD had nothing nearly as good and is still far behind in professional software support. Of course, I bought the card after the slower connection of 500mb VRam became known. As I always say, everybody has to inform itself and its always recommended, not to buy products as an early adopter. It is currently my reserve card and still works perfectly.

That's again, besides the point. Similarly, I can't say that the 1030 DDR4 is a brilliant card just because it's faster than the 710 DDR3 and has better video decode support.

AusWolfThat's again, besides the point. Similarly, I can't say that the 1030 DDR4 is a brilliant card just because it's faster than the 710 DDR3 and has better video decode support.

You can say, whatever you like. It does not change anything of the usability of the gtx 970. I bought it, it fitted my needs. My condolences to anyone who purchases products that didn't meet their needs.

SisyphusYou can say, whatever you like. It does not change anything of the usability of the gtx 970. I bought it, it fitted my needs. My condolences to anyone who purchases products that didn't meet their needs.

Again, a product fitting your needs and fitting its own name, description and price are entirely different things. A 4080 12 GB with its specs would have fit my needs perfectly. It doesn't change the fact that lying about specs (970) and releasing two entirely different products with the same name (4080) is wrong.

My point is about naming and pricing which determines a product's position in the market and its (false) perception by the average consumer. Your point is about the product itself. Please read what I'm saying before you reply.

P4-630Great, now what to do with my $900.... :banghead:

Its extremely upsetting to see our TPU family hasn't bothered to help with this rather simple problem. I mean come on, first message in the thread, easily observable at first glance and no solution in sight :mad:

Anyway, dont worry im here to help.

Ok, i have a $800 budget for my next GPU upgrade. If we combine our budgets we get a total of $1700. This is looking good. We can pick up a 4090 for $1600 woohoo.... that leaves us $100 in hand - its yours! i know - i'm feeling charitable. We can then split the card in half and each one of us takes his share. Seeing the TPU family failed to help and much time has passed.... you can have the larger portion of the share. I'll just take the measly tiny PCB which is probably around 5% of the total size and the rest is yours... yep full 95% casing, massive heatsink, heatpipes, fans, etc etc ...the full MONTY!!

Before you crack your head open on that brick wall... just sign here _____________________

wheresmycarIts extremely upsetting to see our TPU family hasn't bothered to help with this rather simple problem. I mean come on, first message in the thread, easily observable at first glance and no solution in sight :mad:

Anyway, dont worry im here to help.

Ok, i have a $800 budget for my next GPU upgrade. If we combine our budgets we get a total of $1700. This is looking good. We can pick up a 4090 for $1600 woohoo.... that leaves us $100 in hand - its yours! i know - i'm feeling charitable. We can then split the card in half and each one of us takes his share. Seeing the TPU family failed to help and much time has passed.... you can have the larger portion of the share. I'll just take the measly tiny PCB which is probably around 5% of the total size and the rest is yours... yep full 95% casing, massive heatsink, heatpipes, fans, etc etc ...the full MONTY!!

Before you crack your head open on that brick wall... just sign here _____________________

Jokes aside: just read back the last page or two and you'll see the problem. People are happy to pay all the money on earth for whatever Nvidia shits out because "it's the new high-tech Nvidia flagship, mwahaha, not some crappy AMD knock-off, no no".

Disclaimer: it's not about the people who genuinely need an Nvidia feature, like CUDA. It's about people who would otherwise be perfectly fine with an AMD card, but would rather pay double for the Nvidia equal as a sort of cure for their inferiority complex. It's also about people who think lying to customers is acceptable as long as the product by its own merits is anywhere near usable.