TheinsanegamerNWe could also read between the lines. "Fired for union activity" and "fired for gross misconduct" tells me someone got the cart ahead of the course, and got a big group of employees to strike and refuse to work......before they were actually part of the union. oops.

mikesgWhat was the activity .... rallying behind a cause and trying to arm-wrestle Rockstar about it?

They could been but they also did stuff that Rockstar could fired them before for but let it go. They could been pushing for certain ideology to be added to game that higher up's said no to and wouldn't let it go and they were looking to strike since games release isn't far off to put pressure to get stuff added. Just possible idea but would make both reasons possible true since they were doing other first. Everything is speculation but don't think big company's don't have plenty of reasons to fire most people but don't until they do something company really not liking.

It's funny how people here are willing to spin the wildest theories at a drop of a hat when it's something about Nvidia, UE5, or whatever other popular bugbear is.

But unions? No sir, we need to hear both sides of the story, there is not enough to go on, yada yada.

TheinsanegamerN30-40? Across two offices?

Guys, lets get some context here. OVER 1000 PEOPLE worked on GTA V. Rockstar's employment numbers are far higher now then they were in 2012.

This is just another day at the office.

We could also read between the lines. "Fired for union activity" and "fired for gross misconduct" tells me someone got the cart ahead of the course, and got a big group of employees to strike and refuse to work......before they were actually part of the union. oops.

You're missing the point. It is unethical and blatantly illegal to have fired someone for joining a union. Rockstar will likely get bent-over for this, and rightly so.

IMUO, Another sign as to how rotten and overcrowded the gaming industry has become. These people have no business unionizing especially in the games industry.

lexluthermiesterYou're missing the point. It is unethical and blatantly illegal to fired someone for joining a union. Rockstar will likely get bent-over for this, and rightly so.

What proof do we have that these employees were fired for joining a union? That is an assumption based on nothing but the word of the union, and well, its a union, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing was unjustified. Kinda their job.

Now to be fair, assuming that they were fired justly for gross misconduct is ALSO assumption based on nothing but the word or Rockstar, and well, its a corporation, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing being justified. Kinda their job.

We also have the known wildcard: we have seen a serious uptick in the gaming/tech industry of developers becoming very ideologically driven, and trying to force their employers to adopt their ideologies under threat of walkouts and strikes. We also know that Rockstar has a serious ego issue, we saw it with Leslie Benzies, that their employees can be.....detatched from reality.

Now, given how strong union laws are in the UK and to a lesser extent canada, do we REALLY think rockstar was dumb enough to fire people for "joining a union"? They've worked with these studios for decades, Rockstar is a UK company FFS. Pretty sure they would know such a move would immediately backfire and create expensive legal trouble.

IMO best case: these employees were getting involved in political shenanigans and got shitcanned over refusing to work or advocating for illegal strikes. Worse case, Rockstar had an axe to grind and went looking for any reason to fire these people, and found that reason, petty as it may be. I find the idea Rockstar illegally laid off 40 people for no reason to be extremely unlikely, right up there with Activision running porno sets and recording widespread sexual assault of its employees en masse, of which no evidence has ever surfaced despite years of public opinion being to bash Activision for any reason.

TheinsanegamerNWhat proof do we have that these employees were fired for joining a union? That is an assumption based on nothing but the word of the union, and well, its a union, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing was unjustified. Kinda their job.

Now to be fair, assuming that they were fired justly for gross misconduct is ALSO assumption based on nothing but the word or Rockstar, and well, its a corporation, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing being justified. Kinda their job.

We also have the known wildcard: we have seen a serious uptick in the gaming/tech industry of developers becoming very ideologically driven, and trying to force their employers to adopt their ideologies under threat of walkouts and strikes. We also know that Rockstar has a serious ego issue, we saw it with Leslie Benzies, that their employees can be.....detatched from reality.

Now, given how strong union laws are in the UK and to a lesser extent canada, do we REALLY think rockstar was dumb enough to fire people for "joining a union"? They've worked with these studios for decades, Rockstar is a UK company FFS. Pretty sure they would know such a move would immediately backfire and create expensive legal trouble.

IMO best case: these employees were getting involved in political shenanigans and got shitcanned over refusing to work or advocating for illegal strikes. Worse case, Rockstar had an axe to grind and went looking for any reason to fire these people, and found that reason, petty as it may be. I find the idea Rockstar illegally laid off 40 people for no reason to be extremely unlikely, right up there with Activision running porno sets and recording widespread sexual assault of its employees en masse, of which no evidence has ever surfaced despite years of public opinion being to bash Activision for any reason.

In all your years, in cases like this, was the big corporation ever correct, between 30 to 40 employees just happen to display "Gross misconduct" and they actually acted on it (unlike the stories from for example Activision...) ?

and so bloomberg is lying with this "According to reporting by Bloomberg, the affected workers were all either part of a workers union or in the process of becoming part of a union." statement?

or do you believe that there are more people who are in or becoming part of the union that are all not being fired, meaning it would actually be about something else.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the news itself, nobody will care, nobody cares about anything in this world, not really.
Look at the Qatar Fifa match, everyone knew what was going on, everyone just had to NOT watch, that was all....but they all did aka nobody cares, not really.

TheinsanegamerNWhat proof do we have that these employees were fired for joining a union?

Um...

ZoneDymo"According to reporting by Bloomberg, the affected workers were all either part of a workers union or in the process of becoming part of a union."

This. We're not talking about some article from wccftech or theverge, we're talking about actual journalists from Bloomberg reporting information they have found. Not a fluff piece. Rockstar phuq'd up, big time!

lexluthermiesterUm...

This. We're not talking about some article from wccftech or theverge, we're talking about actual journalists from Bloomberg reporting information they have found. Not a fluff piece. Rockstar phuq'd up, big time!

OK, did Bloomberg also say they were fired because they were joining a union? I dont see it in their reporting.

You are aware that being in a union doesnt mean you are impossible to fire and guaranteed a job forever right? You fuck up in certain ways, no union is gonna save you.

Theft, sexual assault, organizing unauthorized strikes to support terrorist organizations, all these things will get you fired for gross misconduct, even in the UK.

ZoneDymoIn all your years, in cases like this, was the big corporation ever correct, between 30 to 40 employees just happen to display "Gross misconduct" and they actually acted on it (unlike the stories from for example Activision...) ?

I've absolutely seen it. Common with teacher unions that always blame administration for a teacher being fired, immediately jump to claims of racism, sexism, ece. Then they get real quiet when the actual reasoning comes out, usually the teacher physically assaulting a student, drinking on the job, or attempting sexual contact. Same thing at the union grocery stores and the union UAW factories. Always claiming they're innocent,t hey didnt do anything wrong, they did everything correct, the corrupt corporation was targeting them, yadda yadda. Never once have I seen that actually be the case, it always turns out that they did something that was listed as a terminable offense in their contract and....got terminated. Falsifying timesheets is a popular one.

You wanna hear some wild shit, look into your local school district's board meetings. Firings and suspensions of public employees are public knowledge and the drama is absolutely kino, in that sickening "my tax dollars are paying for this clown show" way. .

ZoneDymoand so bloomberg is lying with this "According to reporting by Bloomberg, the affected workers were all either part of a workers union or in the process of becoming part of a union." statement?

When did I EVER say they were not part of a union?

You and Lex really need to work on your reading comprehension. I asked where the proof was that they were fired for joining the union, not whether they were in the union or int he process of joining.

So I'll ask again. Real slow this time, in big letters so nobody misses it. IS. THERE. ANY. EVIDENCE. THAT. THEY. WERE. FIRED. FOR. BEING. IN. OR. JOINING. A. UNION, BEYOND. THE. CLAIMS. OF. SAID. UNION?

ZoneDymoor do you believe that there are more people who are in or becoming part of the union that are all not being fired, meaning it would actually be about something else.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, statistically speaking, yeah, there's a LOT more people at these studios then these 30. Is this union brand new? Doesnt sound like it. Do we have any information on how many employees are in the union, or only speculation?

ZoneDymoOn the news itself, nobody will care, nobody cares about anything in this world, not really.
Look at the Qatar Fifa match, everyone knew what was going on, everyone just had to NOT watch, that was all....but they all did aka nobody cares, not really.

You got that right! Nobody cares about politics that dont affect them. News at 11. Virtue signaling really isnt that popular outside internet forums and college campuses.

TheinsanegamerNSo I'll ask again. Real slow this time, in big letters so nobody misses it. IS. THERE. ANY. EVIDENCE. THAT. THEY. WERE. FIRED. FOR. BEING. IN. OR. JOINING. A. UNION, BEYOND. THE. CLAIMS. OF. SAID. UNION?

Calm yourself good sir. We're not your enemy, no need to yell at us. Additionally, journalism outlets like Bloomberg do NOT fudge facts like some places do. If they're stating something, it's because they have good faith info to that point.

lexluthermiesterCalm yourself good sir. We're not your enemy, no need to yell at us. Additionally, journalism outlets like Bloomberg do NOT fudge facts like some places do. If they're stating something, it's because they have good faith info to that point.

So you are going to actually answer the question?

Bloomberg does not provide any evidence that being in the union is why they were fired, only that the employees were either in the union or in the process of joining. Do you have any actual source other than assumptions and speculation?

TheinsanegamerNSo you are going to actually answer the question?

I don't need to. The accountability for such info is not my responsibility. I find it crazy that you would think any of us TPU users would be in possession of such evidence.

TheinsanegamerNBloomberg does not provide any evidence that being in the union is why they were fired, only that the employees were either in the union or in the process of joining.

They don't have to if an investigation is ongoing. However, the credibility for accurate reporting IS in favor of Bloomberg.

TheinsanegamerNDo you have any actual source other than assumptions and speculation?

You will not succeed in blame-shifting here, nor moving the goal-posts. Stop doing it.

Dr. DroUnion busting and strike breaking, huh. Classic corporate BS. Socially and fiscally responsible governance, as long as you're not part of a workers' union, demand to be paid a fair wage for your work and/or be treated as a human being at the workplace.

I tell ya, slavery never left, the only thing that changed is who holds the whip.

You have no means to demand a fair wage in the UK unless you're part of a worker's union. 9 out of 10 times, you're offered X amount, probably as close to minimum wage as possible, and you either take it or leave it. Wages are fixed. Companies don't care about hiring the best candidate, so they won't negotiate with you. They only care about filling the spot, and if it's not you, then it'll be someone else. You're just a number.

With that said, I'd still like to know how this "union busting" works, as it's illegal here. Did they fire those employees based on fabricated reasons? The union should be able to protect them.

lexluthermiesterI don't need to. The accountability for such info is not my responsibility. I find it crazy that you would think any of us TPU users would be in possession of such evidence.

They don't have to if an investigation is ongoing. However, the credibility for accurate reporting IS in favor of Bloomberg.

You will not succeed in blame-shifting here, nor moving the goal-posts. Stop doing it.

I think the point here is similar to mine. "Union busting" is a nice journalistic term that gives you clicks, but one should know that in the UK, it's illegal to fire someone purely based on them being in a worker's union. You have to commit gross misconduct for an instant dismissal, which involves things like theft, assault, any illegal activity, going on an unorganised strike, or a serious breach of health & safety regulations.

TheinsanegamerNWhat proof do we have that these employees were fired for joining a union? That is an assumption based on nothing but the word of the union, and well, its a union, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing was unjustified. Kinda their job.

Now to be fair, assuming that they were fired justly for gross misconduct is ALSO assumption based on nothing but the word or Rockstar, and well, its a corporation, anytime a worker is fired they immediately start with the firing being justified. Kinda their job.

We also have the known wildcard: we have seen a serious uptick in the gaming/tech industry of developers becoming very ideologically driven, and trying to force their employers to adopt their ideologies under threat of walkouts and strikes. We also know that Rockstar has a serious ego issue, we saw it with Leslie Benzies, that their employees can be.....detatched from reality.

Now, given how strong union laws are in the UK and to a lesser extent canada, do we REALLY think rockstar was dumb enough to fire people for "joining a union"? They've worked with these studios for decades, Rockstar is a UK company FFS. Pretty sure they would know such a move would immediately backfire and create expensive legal trouble.

IMO best case: these employees were getting involved in political shenanigans and got shitcanned over refusing to work or advocating for illegal strikes. Worse case, Rockstar had an axe to grind and went looking for any reason to fire these people, and found that reason, petty as it may be. I find the idea Rockstar illegally laid off 40 people for no reason to be extremely unlikely, right up there with Activision running porno sets and recording widespread sexual assault of its employees en masse, of which no evidence has ever surfaced despite years of public opinion being to bash Activision for any reason.

Since Rockstar is UK company?

You know guys... it would be funny if suddenly another trailer appears out of nowhere and everyone forgets about this in 2 seconds...

The article is terribly lacking in content or context. Probably not worth discussing.

AusWolfI think the point here is similar to mine. "Union busting" is a nice journalistic term that gives you clicks, but one should know that in the UK, it's illegal to fire someone purely based on them being in a worker's union. You have to commit gross misconduct for an instant dismissal, which involves things like theft, assault, any illegal activity, going on an unorganized strike, or a serious breach of health & safety regulations.

Same here in US, firing someone cause they are joining/part of a union as only reason would be wrongful termination. For Lux to act like Bloomberg is "creditable" ignoring that only thing they are going on is what really is 1 side of story while other isn't talking cause no matter what they say they will be the bad guys regardless.

Easy RhinoThe article is terribly lacking in content or context. Probably not worth discussing.

Yup, rockstar knows might be legal action attempted by those people so there is 0 reason for them to tip their hand or even say anything to a news outlet that has a history of being on 1 side.

vigorSince Rockstar is UK company?

If you employ UK residents for your UK office / department, then you're bound by UK law, regardless of where your company is registered.

AusWolfI think the point here is similar to mine. "Union busting" is a nice journalistic term that gives you clicks, but one should know that in the UK, it's illegal to fire someone purely based on them being in a worker's union. You have to commit gross misconduct for an instant dismissal, which involves things like theft, assault, any illegal activity, going on an unorganised strike, or a serious breach of health & safety regulations.

Exactly. There is no way all of those people were doing something serious enough to warrant the mass firing. Rockstar screwed up. They need to be rebuked harshly.

arbiterFor Lux to act like Bloomberg is "creditable" ignoring that only thing they are going on is what really is 1 side of story while other isn't talking cause no matter what they say they will be the bad guys regardless.

"Lux"? Is that some sort of jab at me? Nice show of maturity. Bloomberg has it's problems like every other company, but credibility is not one of them. You and others are siding with a company who is known for sometimes scummy choices and this is no exception.

lexluthermiesterRockstar screwed up. They need to be rebuked harshly.

If that's the case, then I'm sure the union will do everything to lay Rockstar sideways.

Alternatively, we might not see the other side of the story. Those employees might have done something that Rockstar can't disclose.

AusWolfIf that's the case, then I'm sure the union will do everything to lay Rockstar sideways.

Alternatively, we might not see the other side of the story.

I would be interested to hear Rockstars side of things, however, the known particulars of the situation seem very sus and very much not in their favor.

AusWolfThose employees might have done something that Rockstar can't disclose.

If it comes to legal action, and that seems likely, they'll have to anyway.

Easy RhinoThe article is terribly lacking in content or context. Probably not worth discussing.

Hold that thought for the next time somebody says something on X or a Chinese forum, and we have 5 pages of wild speculation about it.

This has been picked up by PC Gamer and now is the hottest item on N4G, btw.

lexluthermiesterCalm yourself good sir. We're not your enemy, no need to yell at us. Additionally, journalism outlets like Bloomberg do NOT fudge facts like some places do. If they're stating something, it's because they have good faith info to that point.

Hmm well that is not so or do you need reminding of the recent court case of Bloomberg vs Gamers Nexus copyright strike on Youtube so they're not unfalable when it come to knowing what they're saying is actual fact vs fiction

AthloniteHmm well that is not so or do you need reminding of the recent court case of Bloomberg vs Gamers Nexus copyright strike on Youtube so they're not unfalable when it come to knowing what they're saying is actual fact vs fiction

Bloomberg getting heavy handed with a Youtube channel is not the same as truthful and accurate reporting. Try not to confuse both intent and context.