Thursday, August 28th 2008

Radeon and GeForce Share Work, PhysX Applications Win

The functionality of CUDA and its implementation of GPU-accelerated PhysX processing has benefited many a GeForce user. Users of ATI accelerators lacking this incentive either use Ageia PhysX card or avoid it altogether. It has been verified by Hardspell that in an environment where Radeon accelerator(s) do graphics processing, a GeForce accelerator can be used standalone to process PhysX. Hardspell used a Radeon HD 3850 along with a GeForce 9600 GT on the same system with the display connected to the Radeon, though no form of multi-GPU graphics connection existed, the GeForce card partnered the Radeon well in processing physics, while the Radeon did graphics. Results of the oZone 3D FluidMark, a benchmark that includes routines to evaluate the machine's capability in processing physics, showed a greater than 350% increase in scores, showing that the GeForce accelerator is doing its job.
This was further proved with game testing of Unreal Tournament III. Provided are screen-shots from the game along with those of the FluidMark windows. The first window shows a score of 759 o3marks, while the second window in which GeForce processed PhysX, the score jumped to 2909 o3marks.

Source: Hardspell
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144 Comments on Radeon and GeForce Share Work, PhysX Applications Win

#1
Bytor
newtekie1 said:
I really hope they get this worked out in Vista.



Yes, you can still run a pair of ATi cards and a 3rd for PhysX in XP. CrossfireX is not supported in XP, however having more than 2 graphics cards is. ATi just doesn't want to support CrossfireX on XP for some strange reasons, probably to much of a hassle to work out the drivers.

XP supports at least 3 graphics cards.
Ah I was thinking that after I posted. Only 2 of the cards connected (ATI's via crossfire) and the 3rd card(Nvidia) would be a stand alone to do PhysX...hhhmmmmm

But does anyone know of a way to make a Agiea PhysX card work with ATI video cards in the games that support PhysX?
I tried running fluidmark with this setup but it would not work. (I had the PhysX card drivers installed)
Posted on Reply
#2
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
R_1 said:
It is better just to buy a quad core CPU and to use it's additional 2 cores for physics in games. In this way you will have more balanced PC.
You wont/cant use cores of the CPU unless the game is programmed in that way, apart from that, a GPU is MUCH more efficient at Px than a CPU.
Posted on Reply
#3
DarkMatter
Tatty_One said:
You wont/cant use cores of the CPU unless the game is programmed in that way, apart from that, a GPU is MUCH more efficient at Px than a CPU.
Well TBH and to honor the truth, a CPU is "much" more efficient at physics (almost everything except graphics, indeed), but it's just overwhelmed by the power of the GPUs.

But yeah, because of that, a GPU can do physics a lot faster or bigger = better.
Posted on Reply
#4
tigger
I'm the only one
If it worked on vista,would i be able to run 2x4850's in xfire and an nvidia card in the third pci-e x4 slot for physx?
Posted on Reply
#5
alexp999
Staff
tigger69 said:
If it worked on vista,would i be able to run 2x4850's in xfire and an nvidia card in the third pci-e x4 slot for physx?
Yep!

I dont get it, why doesnt it work in Vista anyway?
Posted on Reply
#6
tigger
I'm the only one
I think you cant run nvidia and ati drivers at the same time on vista.
Posted on Reply
#7
Unregistered
alexp999 said:
Yep!

I dont get it, why doesnt it work in Vista anyway?
Its the way Vista Driver implementation is designed . It is designed to prevent drivers from getting entangled with each other and causing BSOD's. So they are not run in Vista kernel ( Something like this ). Thus it allows only one display driver.

Due to this driver implementation, you see less BSOD's on vista.
Posted on Edit | Reply
#8
alexp999
Staff
wolf2009 said:
Its the way Vista Driver implementation is designed . It is designed to prevent drivers from getting entangled with each other and causing BSOD's. So they are not run in Vista kernel ( Something like this ). Thus it allows only one display driver.

Due to this driver implementation, you see less BSOD's on vista.
And I suppose the Ageia physx card doesnt count as a display driver?

i guess the next thing then, is to allow you to have a physx driver install, that allows the card only to be used for that purpose so their is still only one display driver
Posted on Reply
#9
Unregistered
alexp999 said:
And I suppose the Ageia physx card doesnt count as a display driver?

i guess the next thing then, is to allow you to have a physx driver install, that allows the card only to be used for that purpose so their is still only one display driver
yup, for using nvidia card as a physX card, you have to install their control panel with drivers .so it doesn't work .
Posted on Edit | Reply
#10
DarkMatter
I was not aware that you could only have one display driver in Vista. I have had 2 different cards many times, one for gaming and a professional one for working and I had no problems with them. This is impossible in Vista, I guess. Too bad M$...
Posted on Reply
#11
Fitseries3
Eleet Hardware Junkie
i dont see why this wont work on vista. it's gotta be a simple fix that should be fixed soon enough. vista wont let you run 2 display drivers correct, BUT the cuda/physx driver is not really a display driver. there has got to be another reason why it's not working yet.

as for XP and multi gpu support.... i had my 2x3870x2's working fine in XP. even gpu-z showed 4gpu CFX enabled.

i think it's just a matter of time before this gets fixed for vista.
Posted on Reply
#12
suraswami
btarunr said:
Any card 8400 GS upwards.;)
how about using built-in mobo graphics like GF8200 (my ECS 8200 board) with a ATI 4850 or 3870 card? Or even with my X800GTO?
Posted on Reply
#13
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
suraswami said:
how about using built-in mobo graphics like GF8200 (my ECS 8200 board) with a ATI 4850 or 3870 card? Or even with my X800GTO?
Should be OK yes.
Posted on Reply
#14
EnglishLion
So what's the chance of someone writing 3rd party driver for nvidia gpu to support physics only that's not a display driver so that it's vista compatible.

I have three slots and a cheap low end nvidia card in my 3rd slot would be nice!
Posted on Reply
#15
Bytor
I installed my Asus P1 PhysX card with my ATI 3870 in my intel rig. I installed the card drivers and when I tried running fluidmark it said I needed the 8.07.18 or better drivers, so I installed them. Now when I try and run fluidmark the following message pops up.



The card is working fine. I can reset it and play PhysX based games that came with the card, but can't run fluidmark..

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
Posted on Reply
#16
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
Try installing the 8.08.18 PhsyX software. You might have to uninstall all previous Ageia and PhsyX drivers first.

EnglishLion said:
So what's the chance of someone writing 3rd party driver for nvidia gpu to support physics only that's not a display driver so that it's vista compatible.

I have three slots and a cheap low end nvidia card in my 3rd slot would be nice!
I assume that is what is going to have to happen. NVidia is going to have to just release a set of drivers that makes Vista pick the card up as a PPU only, and not a GPU.
Posted on Reply
#17
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
newtekie1 said:
I assume that is what is going to have to happen. NVidia is going to have to just release a set of drivers that makes Vista pick the card up as a PPU only, and not a GPU.
thats so not going to happen lol that would be to nice of NV
Posted on Reply
#18
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
Bytor said:
I installed my Asus P1 PhysX card with my ATI 3870 in my intel rig. I installed the card drivers and when I tried running fluidmark it said I needed the 8.07.18 or better drivers, so I installed them. Now when I try and run fluidmark the following message pops up.



The card is working fine. I can reset it and play PhysX based games that came with the card, but can't run fluidmark..

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
I think Fluidmark is an NVidia bench, thus it requires CUDA and ATi aint got that.
Posted on Reply
#19
EnglishLion
cdawall said:
thats so not going to happen lol that would be to nice of NV
Certainly Nvidia won't be writing it, they want you to buy nvidia only obviously! But an independant programmer out there might. I know you can get alternative ATI display drivers (don't know if they work in vista) so it might be possible.
Posted on Reply
#20
Bytor
Tatty_One said:
I think Fluidmark is an NVidia bench, thus it requires CUDA and ATi aint got that.
In the first post in this thread the bottom pic's show they ran it using a ATI 3800 series card.
Posted on Reply
#22
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
Bytor said:
In the first post in this thread the bottom pic's show they ran it using a ATI 3800 series card.
Lol yes....with an NVidia card so it has CUDA!! You are not talking about using an NVidia card hence no CUDA, you can still have Physx with the Ageia but that does not give you CUDA and therefore you have problems with this NVidia bench......get my drift?
Posted on Reply
#23
Bytor
Good point tatty....Cheers...

Not worth spending money on Nvidia at this time..
Posted on Reply
#24
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
Tatty_One said:
I think Fluidmark is an NVidia bench, thus it requires CUDA and ATi aint got that.
Bytor said:
In the first post in this thread the bottom pic's show they ran it using a ATI 3800 series card.
Tatty_One said:
Lol yes....with an NVidia card so it has CUDA!! You are not talking about using an NVidia card hence no CUDA, you can still have Physx with the Ageia but that does not give you CUDA and therefore you have problems with this NVidia bench......get my drift?
Bytor said:
Good point tatty....Cheers...

Not worth spending money on Nvidia at this time..
Go read Fluidmark's page here.

An nVidia card is not required, you just need the CUDA dll if you don't have an nVidia card. The benchmark will run fine on an Ageia card, or with no PhysX capable card at all. It is a PhsyX benchmark, not an nVidia benchmark, just like Vantage.

cdawall said:
thats so not going to happen lol that would be to nice of NV
EnglishLion said:
Certainly Nvidia won't be writing it, they want you to buy nvidia only obviously! But an independant programmer out there might. I know you can get alternative ATI display drivers (don't know if they work in vista) so it might be possible.
NVidia wants the technoligy to catch on. The only way it will compete with Havok is if it can be used on virtually every platform, and nVidia knows that. Which is exactly why they are helping get PhysX running on ATi cards, something not even ATi is willing to help with.

Maybe that will be their solution, if it just runs on ATi cards, then you won't have to worry about getting nVidia cards working with ATi cards in Vista, you can have all ATi cards.
Posted on Reply
#25
Bytor
Thanks Newtekie1. Works great now...
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