Wednesday, June 28th 2017
Intel X299 Platform Called a "VRM Disaster" by Overclocker der8auer
It would seem Intel's X299 platform is already having some teething issues, with user "der8auer" of overclocking fame claiming the platform is essentially a complete "VRM disaster." In the video in which these claims are made, he levies the blame to both Intel and the motherboard manufacturers "50/50." For Intel's part, he blames them for the short product launch which was pulled in from August to June, giving the motherboard manufacturers in der8auer's words "almost zero time for developing proper products."
In the video, der8auer elaborates to basically claim a completely lack of consistency among the quality of VRMs and their heatsinks in various manufacturers. In his first test, he takes a CPU that is known to do 5.0 GHz and on a Gigabyte Aorus branded mainboard found himself unable to even hit 4.6 GHz with dangerously high VRM temperatures. He goes on to blame the heatsinks on the VRMs, going so far to call the Gigabyte solution more of a "heat insulation" device than a cooler, as a simple small fan over the bare VRM array did many magnitudes better than a simple standard install with the stock VRM cooler attached. After an MSI-branded board did similar, it became clear this was not an isolated issue.
der8auer also went on to criticize the lack of voltage input in the form of many boards having only a "single 8-pin connector" which der8auer claims is not nearly enough. He claims a cable temperature of nearly 65 degrees Celsius on the 8-pin EPS cable which is obviously disconcerting, though TechPowerUp has been in discussions with renowned PSU-tester Jon Gerow (Jonnyguru) who feels the "all-in-one" cable design on the Super Flower PSU shown in the video may be partially to blame here for the heat level with that current draw. It's hard to tell which part is more at fault for that temperature and we will update that as we know more. Until then, here's is Jon Gerow's direct comment on the matter:
"If you used the SuperFlower PSU in the video with the crystal connectors, that's part of your problem. Those "universal 9-pin connectors" have less conductors than most other modular PSUs because the same connector that's used for EPS12V, PCIe, etc. has to also support +5V and +3.3V for Molex and SATA and then there's an "LED pin" which, when grounded to a ground pin, turns on the interface's LED. A horribly bad design. This is why the wires would be so hot. I suggest checking the voltage at the PSU and then at the motherboard's EPS12V to see what the drop looks like under load. If the voltage is significantly lower than +12V, the board is going to have to pull more current than it normally would. I then suggest using that AX1500i you have on the shelf behind you and see if you end up with the same results since that modular cable for the EPS12V is four +12V pins and four grounds. -- jonny"
The frustrations expressed here have also been shared by Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery," who sells prebinned overclockable CPUs to the general public. His statements on the matter mirror user der8auer's concerns, stating the following in a forum post at Overclock.net:
"I am having trouble with some of these X299 motherboards. I've bought a wide variety for this launch, and none of them are really handling the load of an overclocked 7900X as well as I'd expect. VRM temps through the roof and boards throttling."
One thing is for certain: The VRM situation is far from consistent at this point in time, and overclocking results on one board may not be consistent to another. Heatsinks may be inadequate, and as far as overclocking is concerned, it may get interesting folks, and not in a good way. In the end der8auer concluded he couldn't really give a solid recommendation to any of the launch boards put past his desk, all of them having one issue or another with VRM heat at some point.
Sources:
Youtube user der8auer, Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery"
In the video, der8auer elaborates to basically claim a completely lack of consistency among the quality of VRMs and their heatsinks in various manufacturers. In his first test, he takes a CPU that is known to do 5.0 GHz and on a Gigabyte Aorus branded mainboard found himself unable to even hit 4.6 GHz with dangerously high VRM temperatures. He goes on to blame the heatsinks on the VRMs, going so far to call the Gigabyte solution more of a "heat insulation" device than a cooler, as a simple small fan over the bare VRM array did many magnitudes better than a simple standard install with the stock VRM cooler attached. After an MSI-branded board did similar, it became clear this was not an isolated issue.
"If you used the SuperFlower PSU in the video with the crystal connectors, that's part of your problem. Those "universal 9-pin connectors" have less conductors than most other modular PSUs because the same connector that's used for EPS12V, PCIe, etc. has to also support +5V and +3.3V for Molex and SATA and then there's an "LED pin" which, when grounded to a ground pin, turns on the interface's LED. A horribly bad design. This is why the wires would be so hot. I suggest checking the voltage at the PSU and then at the motherboard's EPS12V to see what the drop looks like under load. If the voltage is significantly lower than +12V, the board is going to have to pull more current than it normally would. I then suggest using that AX1500i you have on the shelf behind you and see if you end up with the same results since that modular cable for the EPS12V is four +12V pins and four grounds. -- jonny"
The frustrations expressed here have also been shared by Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery," who sells prebinned overclockable CPUs to the general public. His statements on the matter mirror user der8auer's concerns, stating the following in a forum post at Overclock.net:
"I am having trouble with some of these X299 motherboards. I've bought a wide variety for this launch, and none of them are really handling the load of an overclocked 7900X as well as I'd expect. VRM temps through the roof and boards throttling."
One thing is for certain: The VRM situation is far from consistent at this point in time, and overclocking results on one board may not be consistent to another. Heatsinks may be inadequate, and as far as overclocking is concerned, it may get interesting folks, and not in a good way. In the end der8auer concluded he couldn't really give a solid recommendation to any of the launch boards put past his desk, all of them having one issue or another with VRM heat at some point.
80 Comments on Intel X299 Platform Called a "VRM Disaster" by Overclocker der8auer
I'm waiting for the Rampage VI APEX to be released before I upgrade to 10 cores.
but one thing is certain : this wont last for very long if they keep doing this
You know part of the CPU heatsink's job is to move air over the VRM heatsink right? When you use a water block you dont have air moving around the socket and thus you get overheated VRMs. I guess der8auer just expects board manufacturers to start using VRM heatsinks with active fans. I dont think this is necessary, atleast not on the low end boards hes talking about ie. gigabyte gaming 3 or asus prime.
As for the 8 pin CPU power connector, its rated for 336 watts but his power supply only uses 6 wires for that 8 pin cable so I'm not surprised that its overheating.
The PSU 6-wire issue was mentioned in the article and it would seem there is definitely more investigation needed there.
SOURCE
Immature platform? Check
High load temps due to TIM underneath heatspreader? Check
Less PCI-E lanes compared to soon arriving Threadripper? Check
Bad VRM designs on X299 motherboards? Check
Inconsistent performance due to tweaked cache structure? Check
CPU segmentiting forcing you to buy atleast a thousand dollar CPU to get the full 44 PCI-E lanes (wich is still 20 short of Threadripper)? Check
Kaby Lake-X abominations that should not even exist? Check
Limitations forcing you to buy RAID keys separately for extra money to use full feature set already present on boards and CPUs? Check
Shady marketing claiming VR and 12K (wow) capability when i truth the mainstream platform can handle these? CheckI wish you luck if indeed you decide to go to X299. For me personally i see too many shortcomings. Atleast in order to justify some of these and look the other way 7900X and all currently released 3 Skylake-X parts should be #1 #2 #3 in every benchmark (exept maybe in gaming). But they're not. So you get a lot of issues for performance that is not even on the top in every scenario.That's an understatement considering everything above 10c/20t was a last minute addition as a kneejerk reaction Threadripper. So last minute that they won't be out until the next quarter. Not only that but Intel didn't even have time to make proper substrate for these CPUs and on Skylake-X parts uses Xeon substrate (you can verify that by looking at the RFID chip in the corner next to the IHS wich is deactivated on Skylake-X but active on Xeon).That's a best case scenario. There a cases where they are 15% slower instead.Again - only when comparing to 6950X.Not at all out of proportion considering the list of negatives i managed to come up with from the top of my head. It seems every bit of news coming about X299 is just another negative.True but if a product exists it should be as good as possible. This can't be a justification for bad and/or overpriced products - just don't buy them.Threadripper. Tho it won't be able to match the best performance examples of Skylake-X it will bring much lower prices, more cores for less price, proper soldered IHS and feature parity for all models and 20 more PCI-E lanes compared to Skylake-X.
The VRMs prolly would get a chance to stay cool if Intel didn't design a power hungry monstrosity.
inb4 Intel comes with the statement not to OC your $1000 unlocked cpu...