Wednesday, June 28th 2017

Intel X299 Platform Called a "VRM Disaster" by Overclocker der8auer

It would seem Intel's X299 platform is already having some teething issues, with user "der8auer" of overclocking fame claiming the platform is essentially a complete "VRM disaster." In the video in which these claims are made, he levies the blame to both Intel and the motherboard manufacturers "50/50." For Intel's part, he blames them for the short product launch which was pulled in from August to June, giving the motherboard manufacturers in der8auer's words "almost zero time for developing proper products."

In the video, der8auer elaborates to basically claim a completely lack of consistency among the quality of VRMs and their heatsinks in various manufacturers. In his first test, he takes a CPU that is known to do 5.0 GHz and on a Gigabyte Aorus branded mainboard found himself unable to even hit 4.6 GHz with dangerously high VRM temperatures. He goes on to blame the heatsinks on the VRMs, going so far to call the Gigabyte solution more of a "heat insulation" device than a cooler, as a simple small fan over the bare VRM array did many magnitudes better than a simple standard install with the stock VRM cooler attached. After an MSI-branded board did similar, it became clear this was not an isolated issue.
der8auer also went on to criticize the lack of voltage input in the form of many boards having only a "single 8-pin connector" which der8auer claims is not nearly enough. He claims a cable temperature of nearly 65 degrees Celsius on the 8-pin EPS cable which is obviously disconcerting, though TechPowerUp has been in discussions with renowned PSU-tester Jon Gerow (Jonnyguru) who feels the "all-in-one" cable design on the Super Flower PSU shown in the video may be partially to blame here for the heat level with that current draw. It's hard to tell which part is more at fault for that temperature and we will update that as we know more. Until then, here's is Jon Gerow's direct comment on the matter:

"If you used the SuperFlower PSU in the video with the crystal connectors, that's part of your problem. Those "universal 9-pin connectors" have less conductors than most other modular PSUs because the same connector that's used for EPS12V, PCIe, etc. has to also support +5V and +3.3V for Molex and SATA and then there's an "LED pin" which, when grounded to a ground pin, turns on the interface's LED. A horribly bad design. This is why the wires would be so hot. I suggest checking the voltage at the PSU and then at the motherboard's EPS12V to see what the drop looks like under load. If the voltage is significantly lower than +12V, the board is going to have to pull more current than it normally would. I then suggest using that AX1500i you have on the shelf behind you and see if you end up with the same results since that modular cable for the EPS12V is four +12V pins and four grounds. -- jonny"

The frustrations expressed here have also been shared by Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery," who sells prebinned overclockable CPUs to the general public. His statements on the matter mirror user der8auer's concerns, stating the following in a forum post at Overclock.net:

"I am having trouble with some of these X299 motherboards. I've bought a wide variety for this launch, and none of them are really handling the load of an overclocked 7900X as well as I'd expect. VRM temps through the roof and boards throttling."

One thing is for certain: The VRM situation is far from consistent at this point in time, and overclocking results on one board may not be consistent to another. Heatsinks may be inadequate, and as far as overclocking is concerned, it may get interesting folks, and not in a good way. In the end der8auer concluded he couldn't really give a solid recommendation to any of the launch boards put past his desk, all of them having one issue or another with VRM heat at some point. Sources: Youtube user der8auer, Overclock.net user "Silicon Lottery"
Add your own comment

80 Comments on Intel X299 Platform Called a "VRM Disaster" by Overclocker der8auer

#26
erixx
All AMD's fault, for turning the markets into a PR deathmatch!

:laugh:

PD: and for delivering amazing stuff and staying undead.
Posted on Reply
#27
dj-electric
@buildzoid This is where i get concerned. Would you like a picture of the X299-A board i have?
Posted on Reply
#28
Nihilus
Bansaku, post: 3685161, member: 131320"
Tomorrow wins! :rockout:
True.
Posted on Reply
#29
buildzoid
RejZoR, post: 3685172, member: 1515"
Board makers didn't fuck up (at least not everything). Intel (and AMD) have to be VERY clear and strict about minimum specs for the VRM. Board makers have to strictly obey that. They can go crazy and overdo the VRM segment of their boards, but they are NOT allowed to go below what Intel or AMD specify for their processors. Only fuck up by the board makers is the fact that Intel has now given them single board that takes anything from crappy quad core up to insane 10 cores. This means VRM needs to be bonkers on all boards even if they'll be primarily bought by budget people for their "high end" quad cores. If board makers try to save things on their own here, that's another thing. It's also possible Intel did fuck up. They can have loads of $ to throw at anything, but rushing things can lead to mistakes even if you have billions to throw around.
Intel's spec sheet for the X series says boards need to handle 73A continuous current draw on VCCIN. If the mobo makers are building for that it's no surprise that the boards can't handle overclocks. The VRMs on X299 should be built to handle around 150-200A 2V continuous(basically they need better cooling) if you plan to max out a 10 core.(imagine what an 18 core will do once OCed:laugh:)
Posted on Reply
#30
atomicus
Hood, post: 3685138, member: 110365"
So eager, they released the fastest consumer CPU ever made, on the best HEDT platform ever, with better single core performance than almost every other CPU (except for their own i7-7700K), and did it at a much lower price than the last generation. You call that a trainwreck? I call it brilliant! Granted, they rushed the release by a couple months, and this thinned out the number of motherboards that were available at launch. But are you really heartbroken about that? Were you planning a knee-jerk upgrade from your present X99 rig? I'd wait for the better motherboards, myself, let the platform mature a few months. Are you upset because they run so much faster than X99 CPUs (10-15%), or because they cost so much less (and you feel that you paid too much for your X99 system)? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I really am curious as to why a few reasonable, intelligent people are having such a negative reaction to X299, which seems all out of proportion to any perceived shortcomings. Also, nobody is forcing anyone to buy this platform. I just don't understand your position, except for seeing that it pushed some kind of emotional button in you, not a considered rational response. Okay, it's not perfect - please tell me a better alternative (past, present, or known future).
There is so much wrong with everything you've said I don't even know where to begin. Fortunately I don't have to as Tomorrow has done a damn good job of ripping it apart already.

Seriously, you come across as some sort of paid for Intel shill.
Posted on Reply
#31
buggalugs
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.

I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.

My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue.
Posted on Reply
#32
Caring1
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.

I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.

My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue.
Hahahaha, so you've never heard of him, too bad, so sad.
Posted on Reply
#33
dj-electric
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.
No. Its one guy you didn't hear about.
He is an overclocking expert, and many world records holder.
The guy probably knows more about hardware than the people who make it
Posted on Reply
#34
R0H1T
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.

I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.

My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue.
Yeah when was the last time you saw an updated BIOS solve a leakage issue as bad as this ~ https://www.computerbase.de/2017-06/intel-core-i9-7900x-test

It;s almost as bad as the FX 9570/90 except that was on 32nm. The BIOS won;t fix the leakage or high temps, that's dead certain.
Posted on Reply
#35
Tomorrow
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.

I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.

My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue.
You mean der8auer is a guy no one has ever heard of? Talk about suprising statements. Granted not everyone knows him but he's still fairly known and respected by people who keep tabs on overcloking or just general hardware news. He know's what he's talking about. I mean the guy works for (or with) ASUS for god's sake. http://hwbot.org/news/12661_overclocker_focus_roman_hartung_der8auer_interview

Also i'd like to see how they fix bad VRM-s with a BIOS update. The only way to do that is to disable all voltage controls that could affect VRM temperature or maybe even undervolt (tho that would affect stability even at stock speeds). Essentially killing overcloking ability. Then again Intel might fly in and say that people should not overclock their unlocked processors right?
Posted on Reply
#36
RejZoR
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.

I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.

My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue.
"Jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of..."

I suggest you watch this video taken from ASUS RealBench tool where you'll see one of the worlds most prominent and respected extreme overclockers and extreme modders... You may spot a familiar face and name through the video...

Posted on Reply
#37
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
Everyone is jumping to conclusions based on one guy on the internet nobody has heard of.
Seriously you have never heard of one of the Best/world record holder Overclocker

buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
I doubt there is a problem with the VRM design, or the heatsinks. Its most likely a very raw, unoptimized bios. These boards were rushed out, motherboard makers didnt have time to optimize the bios and the voltages.
Solved by expensive Board redesign ( No FREE RMA Owners will just have to suck it up) Or new T&C restricting what you can install

buggalugs, post: 3685222, member: 56431"
My guess is an updated bios will solve this issue
I very much doubt any Bios upgrade will solve anything but the most Trivial faults

Conclusion
Perhaps you should Delete your Ill Informed Opinionated Post ( my Opinion )
Posted on Reply
#38
Rahmat Sofyan
"We do not recommend running outside the processor specifications, such as by exceeding processor frequency or voltage specifications, or removing of the integrated heat spreader (sometimes called ‘de-lidding’). These actions will void the processor warranty.”

Intel already told us guys ...
Posted on Reply
#39
atomicus
Rahmat Sofyan, post: 3685267, member: 98404"
"We do not recommend running outside the processor specifications, such as by exceeding processor frequency or voltage specifications, or removing of the integrated heat spreader (sometimes called ‘de-lidding’). These actions will void the processor warranty.”

Intel already told us guys ...
Yes, correct, Intel told everyone who bought a CPU marketed for overclocking not to overclock it.
Posted on Reply
#41
Duality92
They need to make functional heatsinks again, like the ones used on the ASUS X99M WS

Posted on Reply
#42
Hood
Bansaku, post: 3685161, member: 131320"
Tomorrow wins! :rockout:
If you call negativity a win - all my positive points are valid - depends on your viewpoint, I guess. I'll never understand how people get all bitter and angry because some product is better or worse than some other product, even things they don't own and never will. EVERYTHING is better or worse than something else in some way, so I guess you could be bitter and angry about every aspect of life, if that's how you want to be. I prefer to enjoy life...
Posted on Reply
#43
Solidstate89
Looks like this is the year of rushed MOBO/platform launches. Can't wait to see what happens with Threadripper and Coffee Lake at this rate.
Posted on Reply
#44
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Hood, post: 3685283, member: 110365"
If you call negativity a win - all my positive points are valid - depends on your viewpoint, I guess. I'll never understand how people get all bitter and angry because some product is better or worse than some other product, even things they don't own and never will. EVERYTHING is better or worse than something else in some way, so I guess you could be bitter and angry about every aspect of life, if that's how you want to be. I prefer to enjoy life...
You have clearly said X299 is the best HEDT platform ever though, on multiple occasions iirc, and you define why it should be regarded as such.
Posted on Reply
#45
EarthDog
I have the prime x299 deluxe... the vrms were warm on top running p95 at stock... didnt check the bottom. I also ran at 4.5ghz, vrms were toasty, but nothing to worry about. This was on an open air bench without direct airflow.

Duality92, post: 3685278, member: 165222"
They need to make functional heatsinks again, like the ones used on the ASUS X99M WS
LOL...
Posted on Reply
#46
FR@NK
Tomorrow, post: 3685160, member: 136792"
CPU segmentiting forcing you to buy atleast a thousand dollar CPU to get the full 44 PCI-E lanes (wich is still 20 short of Threadripper)? Check
Dude you've drank too much of AMD's cool-aid!

7900x paired with x299 will have more PCIe lanes then threadripper.

Threadripper CPU has 48(24x2) PCIe lanes split between two separate dies. The x399 chipset adds another 16 lanes which brings the platform total to 64 lanes. But you also lose 4(or maybe 8, need to do more research) lanes because they are used to connect the cpu to the chipset; so now you are at 60(or 56) usable lanes. Because of how the lanes are spread out between the dies; you can only get 2x full 16x PCIe slots.

The 7900x has 48 lanes minus 4 lanes for the DMI link to the chipset so 44 lanes. Then add the 24 lanes from the chipset and you get 68 total usable lanes.

source
Posted on Reply
#47
buggalugs
I dont care if hes a great overclocker, I lost interest in those guys 10 years ago. Im not really interested in unattainable overclocking records that are completely useless other than as marketing for mainboard manufacturers. I've only ever been interested in 24/7 overclocking.

We'll see how it pans out. I doubt all the manufacturers have the same problems with VRM at the same time. Motherboard makers usually choose VRM on their own boards, and for highend boards, they are usually overkill in specs. I dont believe there is a hardware problem, but we'll see.
Posted on Reply
#48
_JP_
Duality92, post: 3685278, member: 165222"
They need to make functional heatsinks again, like the ones used on the ASUS X99M WS
No, but seriously:


A top-down cooler should work fine, but who wants to use one of those these days.....besides me...
Posted on Reply
#49
Duality92
_JP_, post: 3685305, member: 83671"
No, but seriously:


A top-down cooler should work fine, but who wants to use one of those these days.....besides me...
I have a few, like the small Phanteks one, the Raijintek Pallas, but they're not the easiest coolers to mount. They also are more performance limited than most tower coolers.
Posted on Reply
#50
Duality92
EarthDog, post: 3685291, member: 79836"
LOL...
Wasn't meant to be funny :(
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment