Wednesday, May 2nd 2018

Noctua presents NF-A12x25 120mm Fan, 140mm Adaptor and redux line NF-P12

Noctua today presented its much-anticipated next-generation 120x25mm A-series fan and the complementary NA-SFMA1 adaptors that allow it to be used on 140mm based watercoolers. The new NF-A12x25 is the first fan made of Noctua's novel Sterrox LCP material and integrates the company's latest innovations in aerodynamic engineering in order to achieve an unprecedented level of quiet cooling performance. While the NF-A12x25 becomes the new flagship model in the 120mm range, the classic NF-P12 will be reissued in the streamlined, more affordable redux line.

"The NF-A12x25 is our most advanced fan today. We've spent more than 4.5 years developing it and it's been easily the most thorny, intricate development project we've completed so far," explains Lars Strömbäck (Noctua CTO):"In order to achieve our goal of surpassing our renowned NF-F12 and NF-S12A, we went for a completely different approach and had to use a tip clearance of only 0.5mm, which poses various new difficulties in manufacturing."
Whereas the award-winning NF-F12 and NF-S12A are specialised solutions that are either optimised for maximum static pressure or maximum airflow, the new NF-A12x25 follows the approach of Noctua's A-series in being a true all-rounder that yields superb results in all types of usage, regardless of whether it's in low-impedance, airflow-oriented applications such as case cooling, or high-impedance, pressure-demanding scenarios such as on heatsinks and watercooling radiators. In practice, the NF-A12x25 not only outperforms the renowned NF-F12 on 120mm based watercooling radiators, but combined with the new, optional NA-SFMA1 adaptor frames, it also offers better efficiency than many 140mm fans on 140mm based systems.

One of the cornerstones of the NF-A12x25's next-generation performance is its record tight tip clearance (distance between the blade tips and the inside of the frame) of only 0.5mm. This highly ambitious design helps the NF-A12x25 to work more efficiently against back pressure, such as on heatsinks or radiators, by reducing leak flows through the gap between impeller and frame. Manufacturing a fan with such a small tip clearance is extremely delicate and was only made possible by Noctua's new Sterrox liquid-crystal polymer (LCP) material, which features extreme tensile strength, an exceptionally low thermal expansion coefficient and excellent dimensional stability.

"We have never put so much research and effort into a single fan so far, both on the level of fine-tuning the aerodynamic construction and on the level of materials and manufacturing," says Roland Mossig (Noctua CEO): "Many challenges had to be overcome, but now we're proud with the end result and confident that the NF-A12x25 will become a new benchmark for premium-quality quiet 120mm fans."

The NF-A12x25 will be available in a 4-pin PWM version for automatic speed control, 3-pin FLX version with Low-Noise Adaptors for three different speed settings as well as a near-silent 3-pin ULN (Ultra-Low-Noise) version. As the NF-A12x25 becomes the new flagship model in Noctua's 120mm range, the classic NF-P12 moves to the streamlined, more affordable redux line. It will henceforth be available in 1700 and 1300rpm 4-pin PWM versions as well as 1300 and 900rpm 3-pin versions.

For more information, visit the product pages of NF-A12x25 PWM, NF-A12x25 FLX, NF-A12x25 ULN, NF-P12 redux-1700 PWM, NF-P12 redux-1300 PWM, NF-P12 redux-1300, NF-P12 redux-900, and NA-SFMA1.
Add your own comment

53 Comments on Noctua presents NF-A12x25 120mm Fan, 140mm Adaptor and redux line NF-P12

#1
dj-electric
I'm going to go ahead and piss a lot of people here.

Dear Noctua, i love your stuff. I really do. I'm a fan of quality-engineered components.
I think the D14\15 and U12\14 coolers are god damn brilliant.

But wow, where do you think we are? Spending 4.5 years of R&D on a god damn case\radiator fan?
For what? why? This isn't the race to find fuel alternatives. People are doing just fine with regular fans, or at best ML-level ones.

Its not like the streets are full of people who shout "we want better fans!". I... i just don't get. This thing will cost a fortune for a small-at-best difference from a standard high quality fan.

In addition, you keep ignoring the actual community request of adding color options into your mold machines. Is that really that hard?
Posted on Reply
#2
madness777
dj-electric
I'm going to go ahead and piss a lot of people here.

Dear Noctua, i love your stuff. I really do. I'm a fan of quality-engineered components.
I think the D14\15 and U12\14 coolers are god damn brilliant.

But wow, where do you think we are? Spending 4.5 years of R&D on a god damn case\radiator fan?
For what? why? This isn't the race to find fuel alternatives. People are doing just fine with regular fans, or at best ML-level ones.

Its not like the streets are full of people who shout "we want better fans!". I... i just don't get. This thing will cost a fortune for a small-at-best difference from a standard high quality fan.

In addition, you keep ignoring the actual community request of adding color options into your mold machines. Is that really that hard?
It's like saying to Ferrari/Lamborghini ''Why don't you focus on family cars, why don't you sell cars for 9.000€ that everyone can buy''
Posted on Reply
#3
raptori
Over-engineering is going to back fire at them sooner or later , I know their quality and I have Noctua product in my case but they don't need to do anything to the old NF-P12/14 other than colors .
Posted on Reply
#4
dj-electric
madness777
It's like saying to Ferrari/Lamborghini ''Why don't you focus on family cars, why don't you sell cars for 9.000€ that everyone can buy''
You compered case fans to flagship expensive cars by multi-billion dollar industries. Don't.
Posted on Reply
#5
GlacierNine
dj-electric
I'm going to go ahead and piss a lot of people here.

Dear Noctua, i love your stuff. I really do. I'm a fan of quality-engineered components.
I think the D14\15 and U12\14 coolers are god damn brilliant.

But wow, where do you think we are? Spending 4.5 years of R&D on a god damn case\radiator fan?
For what? why? This isn't the race to find fuel alternatives. People are doing just fine with regular fans, or at best ML-level ones.

Its not like the streets are full of people who shout "we want better fans!". I... i just don't get. This thing will cost a fortune for a small-at-best difference from a standard high quality fan.

In addition, you keep ignoring the actual community request of adding color options into your mold machines. Is that really that hard?
Hang on a second, this post is a total contradiction.

If you're going to piss off a lot of people with a post, it's usually because you know people are going to disagree with it.

But the entire content of your post is assertions that most of the fan-buying-public actually wants what you want.

Both of these things seem to be at least to some degree, exclusive, no? Either everyone wants what you want, so there's no reason for them to be pissed off with what you say, or, they agree with Noctua, in which case your assertions are untrue.



The simple truth of this is that Noctua are a profit-making business. They need to R&D improved products in order to remain competitive - if they don't their competitors will either offer the same thing at a lower price, or a better product at the same price, and will eat away at Noctua's marketshare. There's no good business justification for Noctua to stop their R&D for 4.5 years - even if the end result is only a minor improvement.

As for colours - There's a simple and obvious truth there also - The market is not, on the whole, comprised of people who build tempered glass show systems. We all like to sit around and add hardware to our newegg baskets that we'll never buy and can't afford, imagining that supa-sikk ultra-rig that we could build. But most of us simply don't have the time or money to invest in that. When I build a rig, I prioritise my money performance first, aesthetics second.

That means that Noctua really aren't killing their market by refusing to abandon a colourscheme. In fact, they're strengthening it because their colourscheme is essentially a byword for quality (Which matters to a lot of people and has a long tail in terms of marketing), rather than becoming another "Me too" brand via aesthetics (That don't really matter that much and has a very short tail in terms of marketing).
Posted on Reply
#6
owen10578
dj-electric
I'm going to go ahead and piss a lot of people here.

Dear Noctua, i love your stuff. I really do. I'm a fan of quality-engineered components.
I think the D14\15 and U12\14 coolers are god damn brilliant.

But wow, where do you think we are? Spending 4.5 years of R&D on a god damn case\radiator fan?
For what? why? This isn't the race to find fuel alternatives. People are doing just fine with regular fans, or at best ML-level ones.

Its not like the streets are full of people who shout "we want better fans!". I... i just don't get. This thing will cost a fortune for a small-at-best difference from a standard high quality fan.

In addition, you keep ignoring the actual community request of adding color options into your mold machines. Is that really that hard?
The only reason Noctua can price their fans higher than others and still sell is because they put actual engineering into fans instead of going all stupid RGB LEDs that other manufacturers go for. There's a reason why Noctuas also hold value better than any other fans on the second hand market.
Posted on Reply
#7
Hood
The best has to keep improving, or it might be surpassed by a competitor. Noctua became the best by doing their homework (years of research and testing). I for one applaud their efforts, and I don't understand why it causes anger. I use their industrial 140mm fans on my radiator, and I'm very happy with them. If they ever fail, I'll happily buy these new models.
Posted on Reply
#9
Vario
redshoulder
It took 4.5 years to copy Gentle Typhoon Design?
Exactly what I was thinking as well. I don't think there is all THAT much engineering going into these things, its just marketing.
Posted on Reply
#10
dj-electric
GlacierNine
Hang on a second, this post is a total contradiction.

If you're going to piss off a lot of people with a post, it's usually because you know people are going to disagree with it.

But the entire content of your post is assertions that most of the fan-buying-public actually wants what you want.

Both of these things seem to be at least to some degree, exclusive, no? Either everyone wants what you want, so there's no reason for them to be pissed off with what you say, or, they agree with Noctua, in which case your assertions are untrue.



The simple truth of this is that Noctua are a profit-making business. They need to R&D improved products in order to remain competitive - if they don't their competitors will either offer the same thing at a lower price, or a better product at the same price, and will eat away at Noctua's marketshare. There's no good business justification for Noctua to stop their R&D for 4.5 years - even if the end result is only a minor improvement.

As for colours - There's a simple and obvious truth there also - The market is not, on the whole, comprised of people who build tempered glass show systems. We all like to sit around and add hardware to our newegg baskets that we'll never buy and can't afford, imagining that supa-sikk ultra-rig that we could build. But most of us simply don't have the time or money to invest in that. When I build a rig, I prioritise my money performance first, aesthetics second.

That means that Noctua really aren't killing their market by refusing to abandon a colourscheme. In fact, they're strengthening it because their colourscheme is essentially a byword for quality (Which matters to a lot of people and has a long tail in terms of marketing), rather than becoming another "Me too" brand via aesthetics (That don't really matter that much and has a very short tail in terms of marketing).
Here's the deal. I'm a fan of nicely engineered hardware, but sometimes there's a line that gets crossed when it comes to components and here i think it was crossed. By miles.

It is incredibly unreasonable IMO to pay 2-3 times as much for the same experience of a product. This is not some space-age stuff that nobody has access to in the experience side of things. Its just a case fan. There are many incredible ones for 15-20$.
Posted on Reply
#11
The Terrible Puddle
redshoulder
It took 4.5 years to copy Gentle Typhoon Design?
Vario
Exactly what I was thinking as well. I don't think there is all THAT much engineering going into these things, its just marketing.
Yeah, I also glance at these and my spectroscopic vision can immediately tell these are made of the same polymer as the GT. Definitely not a new material.
My perfect understanding of Riemannian geometry and use relativistically tells me that the clearance is identical down to 3.2*10^-35m or two Planck lengths.
By the information in this press release and the fact that there are two syllables in Wednesday, we can by Fermi estimation tell that the motor of this fan is indistinguishable from the one in the GT.
Posted on Reply
#12
Fx
I only buy Noctua. I receive this as excellent news and hope that they can implement these improvements into a 140mm fan.
Posted on Reply
#13
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
redshoulder
It took 4.5 years to copy Gentle Typhoon Design?
Vario
Exactly what I was thinking as well. I don't think there is all THAT much engineering going into these things, its just marketing.
It isn't the design that was the engineering challenge with these fans, it was getting the material to work and be presentable as something someone would actually want in their computer.
Posted on Reply
#14
GlacierNine
dj-electric
Here's the deal. I'm a fan of nicely engineered hardware, but sometimes there's a line that gets crossed when it comes to components and here i think it was crossed. By miles.

It is incredibly unreasonable IMO to pay 2-3 times as much for the same experience of a product. This is not some space-age stuff that nobody has access to in the experience side of things. Its just a case fan. There are many incredible ones for 15-20$.
Firstly, it's not 2-3 times as much. The RRP on these is €29.90. That's a just under 30% increase over a high quality, but still relatively standard, fan like a Be Quiet Silent Wings 3. ( €22.90 RRP)

Secondly, you don't get 2-3x the performance for 2-3x the price at the top end of ANY field of consumer product. The most advanced products or desirable products in any field are always orders of magnitude more expensive than products that offer a majority of the same performance. OLED panels when first introduced didn't offer 2-3x the performance of top end plasma screens, but cost 2-3x as much. Top end studio monitors don't by any objective measure, perform massively better than "workhorse" monitors in lower end studios, a £20,000 server machine doesn't have 10x the raw computing power of a £2000 gaming rig, which itself isn't twice as powerful as a £1000 rig.

If it's not worth it to you, then fine, buy a cheaper product and be perfectly happy with your absolutely understandable decision.

But on the other hand - this is a product that, if Noctua's claims are true (And they've certainly no reputation for deceit), offers performance unavailable in other products. It might not be 30% better performance, but a 30% price premium for 5-10% better performance is certainly not completely unreasonable as long as you understand what a curve of diminishing returns is.
Posted on Reply
#15
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
I’ll definitely be grabbing a few of these to replace my current Noctua Industrials.
Posted on Reply
#16
dwade
They could’ve made them black or even gray like their redux but nope. Poop color means that most people rather spend the same money on the bling bling ml120 pro rgbs.
Posted on Reply
#17
GlacierNine
dwade
They could’ve made them black or even gray like their redux but nope. Poop color means that most people rather spend the same money on the bling bling ml120 pro rgbs.
People have been saying this ever since Noctua released their very first product. It didn't kill them then and it won't kill them now, to not be marketing a product on it's aesthetics instead of it's performance. Plenty of people will buy these, just like plenty of people bought every other fan they've ever made in brown.
Posted on Reply
#18
Valantar
redshoulder
It took 4.5 years to copy Gentle Typhoon Design?
Truly spoken like someone who has zero understanding or appreciation of the complexities of aerodynamics, materials science, or the combination of the two. Well done.

As an owner of a few Gentle Typhoons, I can attest that they definitely do not have 0.5mm fin tip clearance. They're still better than most fans in this regard (I'd eyeball them at around 1mm), but other than that, sure, the designs look similar. The only problem with this is that blade curvatures and other geometry is nigh on impossible to judge by eye, especially from a handful of pictures.

Also, hopefully, these don't have the GT issue of the fan blades extending beyond the frame at speed and interfering with grilles or filters mounted close to them. Had to mangle my old Define R4 quite a bit to get them to stop rubbing against the front intake bracket.

Still, I'd bet the majority of the R&D here has been spent on finding the perfect material and learning how to best put it to use - a kind of R&D that will pay off many, many years down the line, but can't be done piecemeal. As such, a very long development cycle for the initial product is a given.
Posted on Reply
#19
Gasaraki
dj-electric
I'm going to go ahead and piss a lot of people here.

Dear Noctua, i love your stuff. I really do. I'm a fan of quality-engineered components.
I think the D14\15 and U12\14 coolers are god damn brilliant.

But wow, where do you think we are? Spending 4.5 years of R&D on a god damn case\radiator fan?
For what? why? This isn't the race to find fuel alternatives. People are doing just fine with regular fans, or at best ML-level ones.

Its not like the streets are full of people who shout "we want better fans!". I... i just don't get. This thing will cost a fortune for a small-at-best difference from a standard high quality fan.

In addition, you keep ignoring the actual community request of adding color options into your mold machines. Is that really that hard?
Thank you.

GlacierNine
"

As for colours - There's a simple and obvious truth there also - The market is not, on the whole, comprised of people who build tempered glass show systems. We all like to sit around and add hardware to our newegg baskets that we'll never buy and can't afford, imagining that supa-sikk ultra-rig that we could build. But most of us simply don't have the time or money to invest in that. When I build a rig, I prioritise my money performance first, aesthetics second.

That means that Noctua really aren't killing their market by refusing to abandon a colourscheme. In fact, they're strengthening it because their colourscheme is essentially a byword for quality (Which matters to a lot of people and has a long tail in terms of marketing), rather than becoming another "Me too" brand via aesthetics (That don't really matter that much and has a very short tail in terms of marketing)."
That is a contradiction. If People who use those fans are the ones that don't have tempered glass cases and no one can see the fans, why make them brown? Make the fans the default color of the materials. If they make them brown to show their quality but you don't see them, does it really represent quality?
Posted on Reply
#20
Unregistered
Did the patent run out on gentle typhoon design? I not sure how in this case it took so long.
CFD analysis such as Ansys Fluent is used for simulation to model turbulent flows etc and is used in order to finalise design. Once all the variables such as boundary conditions and load are defined you can run successive simulations with little fuss.
#21
WithoutWeakness
People have been complaining about Noctua's brown fans for over a decade and it still hasn't changed. It will likely never change. It's a marketing tool that strengthens their brand image. People see Noctua fans and they are immediately recognizable and most educated folks know they're high quality. It's the same reason Apple has kept the MacBook Pro the same sandblasted aluminum color for 15 years. The same reason Ferrari sells so many red cars. Sure, there's the Redux line, just like you can get a Space Grey MacBook or a blue Ferrari, but Noctua keeps their best fans exclusive to the brown-and-beige theme.

The only people who seem to be upset about this are folks that want Noctua's quality and performance but also want different colors and RGB that other manufacturers offer. It's been clear to most of us for 12+ years that Noctua isn't going to make this compromise and measurable performance is their only benchmark for their products. That's why they'll spend 4.5 years working on new materials and manufacturing processes to release a $30 computer fan. It looks like a clone of a Gentle Typhoon because the design clearly works - the design launced 10 years ago and they are still regarded as top-tier fans for watercooling radiators. If Noctua has been able to iterate on the design to increase performance and quality I don't see why any other manufacturer couldn't have done the same. Instead they all spent years building inferior products and slapping LEDs onto them.
Posted on Reply
#22
INSTG8R
My Custom Title
Valantar
Also, hopefully, these don't have the GT issue of the fan blades extending beyond the frame at speed and interfering with grilles or filters mounted close to them. Had to mangle my old Define R4 quite a bit to get them to stop rubbing against the front intake bracket.
That was the whole point of this new material that it was more rigid to prevent exactly that from happening also the reason they can do that super small gap.
Posted on Reply
#23
phanbuey
these are great, but damn are they ugly.

I would love to get a couple and run them push so i can hide them in the nzxt 340.
Posted on Reply
#24
WithoutWeakness
phanbuey
these are great, but damn are they ugly.

I would love to get a couple and run them push so i can hide them in the nzxt 340.
Embrace the brown. It can be beautiful if you do it right. Get some sleeved cables you're set. Not everything has to be black and RGB LEDs to look good.
Posted on Reply
#25
AnarchoPrimitiv
GlacierNine
Hang on a second, this post is a total contradiction.

If you're going to piss off a lot of people with a post, it's usually because you know people are going to disagree with it.

But the entire content of your post is assertions that most of the fan-buying-public actually wants what you want.

Both of these things seem to be at least to some degree, exclusive, no? Either everyone wants what you want, so there's no reason for them to be pissed off with what you say, or, they agree with Noctua, in which case your assertions are untrue.



The simple truth of this is that Noctua are a profit-making business. They need to R&D improved products in order to remain competitive - if they don't their competitors will either offer the same thing at a lower price, or a better product at the same price, and will eat away at Noctua's marketshare. There's no good business justification for Noctua to stop their R&D for 4.5 years - even if the end result is only a minor improvement.

As for colours - There's a simple and obvious truth there also - The market is not, on the whole, comprised of people who build tempered glass show systems. We all like to sit around and add hardware to our newegg baskets that we'll never buy and can't afford, imagining that supa-sikk ultra-rig that we could build. But most of us simply don't have the time or money to invest in that. When I build a rig, I prioritise my money performance first, aesthetics second.

That means that Noctua really aren't killing their market by refusing to abandon a colourscheme. In fact, they're strengthening it because their colourscheme is essentially a byword for quality (Which matters to a lot of people and has a long tail in terms of marketing), rather than becoming another "Me too" brand via aesthetics (That don't really matter that much and has a very short tail in terms of marketing).
I thought I was the only one that dream shops on newegg
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment