Friday, May 10th 2019

AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" a Memory OC Beast, DDR4-5000 Possible

AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen (3000-series) processors will overcome a vast number of memory limitations faced by older Ryzen chips. With Zen 2, the company decided to separate the memory controller from the CPU cores into a separate chip, called "IO die". Our resident Ryzen memory guru Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy, author of DRAM Calculator for Ryzen, found technical info that confirms just how much progress AMD has been making.

The third generation Ryzen processors will be able to match their Intel counterparts when it comes to memory overclocking. In the Zen 2 BIOS, the memory frequency options go all the way up to "DDR4-5000", which is a huge increase over the first Ryzens. The DRAM clock is still linked to the Infinity Fabric (IF) clock domain, which means at DDR4-5000, Infinity Fabric would tick at 5000 MHz DDR, too. Since that rate is out of reach for IF, AMD has decided to add a new 1/2 divider mode for their on-chip bus. When enabled, it will run Infinity Fabric at half the DRAM actual clock (eg: 1250 MHz for DDR4-5000).

This could turn into an additional selling point for AMD X570 chipset motherboards, as they'll have a memory frequency headroom advantage over boards based on older chipsets as their BIOS will include not just the increased memory clock limit, but also the divider mode. Of course this doesn't mean that you can just magically overclock any memory kit to these 5 GHz speeds - it's probable that only the best of the best modules will be able to get close to these speeds.

1usmus also discovered that the platform adds a SoC OC mode and VDDG voltage control. We've heard from several sources that AMD invested heavily in improving memory compatibility, especially in the wake of Samsung discontinuing its B-die DRAM chips.
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102 Comments on AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" a Memory OC Beast, DDR4-5000 Possible

#26
mahoney
So you'll need a new mobo for this?
Posted on Reply
#27
TheLostSwede
mahoney said:

So you'll need a new mobo for this?
Maybe. Obviously you'd need a Ryzen 3000, since it contains the memory controller.
Judging by how I at least presume the information was collected, I'm guess it's from a UEFI update for current boards, so it might stil be possible on non X570 boards.
Posted on Reply
#28
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
mahoney said:

So you'll need a new mobo for this?
No
Posted on Reply
#29
Kohl Baas
AFAIK the main reason of using high speed memory in Ryzen (gaming) setups is to pump up the speed of the Infinity Fabric, because if it can't hit at least 3-3.2GHz, there is a slight lag every time the scheluder throws a thread from one module to another.

As a Ryzen 1700 user I never had issue using it on stock speed, but since I use it with stock memory speed, there could be a spight jitter on less multythreaded (older) games. For example: MarMax.

Highly multythreaded applications are less affect d, because if it uses all 16 threads, the scheluder can't throw any of it to another.

And honestly I failed to see the advantage of a 5GHz memory in comparison to a 3GHz one under gaming applications.
Posted on Reply
#30
Caring1
TheLostSwede said:

Maybe. Obviously you'd need a Ryzen 3000, since it contains the memory controller.
Judging by how I at least presume the information was collected, I'm guess it's from a UEFI update for current boards, so it might stil be possible on non X570 boards.
I'd assume top tier boards only that have the necessary power delivery.
Posted on Reply
#31
dicktracy
Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
Posted on Reply
#32
NdMk2o1o
dicktracy said:

Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
Yes fairy tales cause its unlikely they would improve the ram capability and base clock like they did even with the interim ryzen +
Posted on Reply
#33
Midland Dog
londiste said:

Wouldn't the 1/2 divider pose a small problem with decreasing IF clock when it gets enabled?
Assuming without divider memory goes to 3600 (roughly how it is now), going from 3600 to 4000 and enabling the divider to facilitate these speeds would mean IF clock going from 1800 to 1000, right?

IMC is in the CPU, so divider support in BIOS could theoretically be available for older boards as well.
IMC is on the I/O die
Posted on Reply
#34
Xuper
But even at DDR4 4000 , Those kits are expensive.
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#35
medi01
[MEDIA=twitter]1126734966363025408[/MEDIA]
Posted on Reply
#36
ShurikN
dicktracy said:

Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
2700X does both.
Posted on Reply
#37
olymind1
Xuper said:

But even at DDR4 4000 , Those kits are expensive.
I agree.

In my country the ram prices for 2x8 GB DDR4 kits are:
-3000 CL16 kit 80 € - G.Skill Aegis
-3400 CL16 kit 105 € - Patriot Viper 4
-3600 CL17 kit 124 € - Patriot Viper Steel
-3733 CL17 kit 143 € - Patriot Viper 4

Everything else faster is much more expensive, and everything else slower isnt really cheaper than the 3000MHz kit. So I'm wondering what kind of ram will be optimal / acceptable for Ryzen 3 with a reasonable price with reasonable performance for gaming only.

Also from what RAM frequency will we need to enable the 1/2 IF speed multiplier? And how will it affect the CPU's performance..?
Posted on Reply
#38
TheLostSwede
Caring1 said:

I'd assume top tier boards only that have the necessary power delivery.
Depends on which CPU you get, no? Afaik, there's no power increase unless you go over 8 cores.

dicktracy said:

Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
Done.

olymind1 said:

So I'm wondering what kind of ram will be optimal / acceptable for Ryzen 3 with a reasonable price with reasonable performance for gaming only.

Also from what RAM frequency will we need to enable the 1/2 IF speed multiplier? And how will it affect the CPU's performance..?
Unknown at this point. AMD apparently tests with G.Skill, Corsair, Kingston and one or two other brands. This doesn't mean that the board makers will optimise for the same kits. Once boards are available, check the QVL for the board you want and buy accordingly. It's highly recommended to do this to start with, if you want to use fast memory.

Unknown at this point, but I'm sure we'll find out more as soon as hardware is sampled to review sites.
Posted on Reply
#39
springs113
dicktracy said:

Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
My 2700x has no problem doing that, in fact I can do 4.3ghz + 3600mhz no problem. I scaled it back to 4.15 though. I need them to be able to at least go 4.8 all core + 3600mhz.
Posted on Reply
#40
Roddey
Well on this news I went ahead and bought the Viper Steel Series 4000mhz. I dont know if the tariffs, the release of AMD 3000, and the cancellation of b-die will effect the pricing of these but I took a guess they might and bought a little early. There not going to be delivered until the end of May and I will have 30 days(if left unopened)to decide if I keep them or return them for a refund. The price is locked in though for almost 8 weeks.
Time will tell I guess.
Posted on Reply
#41
Andrev
NdMk2o1o said:

So it has support in the bios for DDR4 5000, doesn't mean anything, my Asrock Ab350m has support for DDR4 4000, it still doesn't get anywhere close to that the same as all other current gen and 1st gen Ryzen boards and processors. That said if Ryzen 2 can hit 4000mhz DDR4 with 4.5+Ghz chiplets available then that is more than enough for my and many other peoples needs. The interesting this is the seperate I/O chip that replaces the on die memory controller, maybe they have overcome many of the limitations of Ryzen and Ryzen+ memory issues.
The specs sheet of Asrock B350m shows 3200+(OC) mhz speed. I'm curios where didn you saw that 4000mhz for that board.
Posted on Reply
#42
Totally
NdMk2o1o said:

Where's the quote for this?
In the review for the Asrock x370 Taichi. Earthdog went over the details there to highlight why that board and Asrock team was so awesome.
Posted on Reply
#43
EarthDog
Totally said:

In the review for the Asrock x370 Taichi. Earthdog went over the details there to highlight why that board and Asrock team was so awesome.
I dont think that was me.... I've never reviewed anything x370.
Posted on Reply
#44
infrared
I can't wait to see how a 3700x behaves in my Crosshair VI, I've have 3600mhz stable this board, and remember @cdawall getting over 3700 so I'll keep my fingers crossed. If I can't reach at least 3800mhz I'll have to get an X570 board as well.
dicktracy said:

Let's get past 4.2 GHz for CPU and 3600Mhz for RAM first before making up fairy tales
Um?! Even my 1800X is capable of those clocks for benchmarks.. even a sub-par 2700X can exceed those with ease.
Posted on Reply
#45
RH92
1usmus said:

There are a lot of improvements in X 570, MSI and ASUS are preparing legendary tops ;)
Is really X570 going to play that much of a role in memory OC ( other than the multiplier you mentioned ) when we know that the MC is on the CPU ? I mean motherboard manufacturers said the same about X470/B450 compared to X370/B350 but it turned out that there was basicaly no difference between the two when Zen+ was used .
Posted on Reply
#46
bug
NdMk2o1o said:

Where's the quote for this?
On the internet, from around when Zen launched. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you ;)
Posted on Reply
#47
EarthDog
infrared said:

Um?! Even my 1800X is capable of those clocks for benchmarks.. even a sub-par 2700X can exceed those with ease.
for all intents and purposes, 4.2 ghz and 3200 mhz is about it across the board. Anything past that, especially on core clocks, is gravy for any ryzen. Memory can get up there, but you need the right sticks and proper bios/aegesa.

Benchmark stable, if done right, isnt 24/7 stable. :)
Posted on Reply
#48
bug
EarthDog said:

for all intents and purposes, 4.2 ghz and 3200 mhz is about it across the board. Anything past that, especially on core clocks, is gravy for any ryzen.
Looking at the price of RAM, you don't really want to go over 3200 anyway. Though you may have the budget if you're buying a 16c/32t CPU.
Posted on Reply
#49
NdMk2o1o
bug said:

On the internet, from around when Zen launched. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you ;)
Don't be ridiculous, you can make anything true on the Internet, I want to know where amd said this, oh you won't spoon feed me because its not true :rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
#50
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
infrared said:

I can't wait to see how a 3700x behaves in my Crosshair VI, I've have 3600mhz stable this board, and remember @cdawall getting over 3700 so I'll keep my fingers crossed. If I can't reach at least 3800mhz I'll have to get an X570 board as well.

Um?! Even my 1800X is capable of those clocks for benchmarks.. even a sub-par 2700X can exceed those with ease.
Yea I pushed 3866 with one of the original bios's, but that was with a very nice amd provided cpu and some of the best bdie ever made lol
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