Friday, May 17th 2019

AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

The Hot Chips conference is one of the leading-edge grounds for discussion of new silicon-bound technologies, and AMD will, as usual, take to its grounds in an effort to detail their efforts in their technology fields. The conference's organization has already confirmed a number of participants in its conference schedule, which includes the likes of Intel, Microsoft, Alibaba, NVIDIA, Tesla and of course, AMD.

AMD will be delivering two keynotes: the first, on August 19th, is simply titled "Zen 2", and will therefore deal with the underpinnings of the Zen 2 microarchitecture, which will be pervasive to all of AMD's CPU product lines. A second conference will be held on the same day by AMD's CEO Lisa Su herself, and is titled "Delivering the Future of High-Performance Computing with System, Software and Silicon Co-Optimization". On the next day, August 20th, another AMD keynote is simply titled "7 nm Navi GPU", and we expect it to follow in the footsteps of the Zen 2 conference. So, with AMD diving deep into both architectures come August... it's extremely likely the company will have launched both product lines by then. Fingers crossed. You can find the abstract on AMD's CEO Lisa Su's conference after the break.
From medicine to the frontiers of scientific research, manufacturing and entertainment-the demand for computing and graphics technologies continues growing. While we are entering a golden age of high-performance computing, it is increasingly clear that the techniques the industry has used to reach this point will not deliver similar advances over the coming years. As the gains from Moore's Law have slowed in recent years, the industry has begun to focus on new areas of innovation to maintain the historical pace of performance improvements. AMD CEO Lisa Su will discuss new techniques in system architecture, silicon design and software that will enable future generations of computing and graphics products to deliver more performance with greater efficiency.
Source: Hot Chips
Add your own comment

182 Comments on AMD to Detail Zen 2, Navi Architectures Come Hot Chips in August

#101
efikkan
Does anyone know the actual TDP requirement for AM4 motherboards? (TDP for the CPU)
There must certainly be one, and this will likely be the upper limit of Ryzen 3000 CPUs at stock.
Posted on Reply
#102
TheLostSwede
HD64G said:

@notb: The high-TDP Ryzen 3000 cpus will be the ones with the higher clocks and 16C/32T and that cannot be otherwise since to have the same TDP as 2700X with the double cores should keep it at the same clocks. There might be such a model but most possibly one or two will have closer to 150W in order to reach close to 5GHz for the turbo frequency. And imho that cpu will come later in the year and not at launch since more binning will be needed for the relatively young 7nm process. The 12C/24T might have 125-130TDP. And I strongly suggest that all the models will work fine on most of the X370, X470 and X570 motherboards and on a few quality B450s. Time is near now to find out.
Tad high TDP there...
Posted on Reply
#103
theoneandonlymrk
@notb
what qualifications do you have to expect your opinion to matter to me, I have qualifications in engineering and have worked as such for 25 years to account for my knowledge ,what do you have. and i am truly an enthusiast.

I am not mocking you for your pc being shit , im saying you show no love for tech unless its intel or nvidia(though not with your cash it seams since your pc is shit), yet are in a tech enthusiast forum spouting shit with no proof , get a life.

stop stating you know shit perhaps, maybe express it as an opinion instead of fact and I could leave you to it but no , you KNOW this fans loud.

get some proof,oh and don't imply i'm just a gamer after FPS in posts and don't care, I AM PURELY A TECH ,ALL TECH ENTHUSIAST not a gamer though i game , not an admin though i do admin and not just a bencher , though i do bench.

If the fan ended up an issue I would be happy to join you harranging AMD , as there is no proof whatsoever this is the case ,your deliberate shilling and trolling is to me a waste of time.
Posted on Reply
#104
HTC
notb said:

It seems you don't understand the discussion. We are talking about function.

An argument that "a fan exists because it is required" is true, but why is it required? Aren't you interested? What if AMD platform required 7 fans? What if it required you to sacrifice a virgin during boot?
Would i prefer a fan were not used? Sure! But if it's necessary, i'm OK with it being there, so long as it's necessary: if not, then that's just cosmetic, much like RGB.

Then it would have 7 fans. Why? That a problem? Noise could very well be a problem, though.

Sacrifice a virgin during boot? Dunno about you but that's where i draw the line ...
Posted on Reply
#105
Vya Domus
The fact that the only thing people could come up with in 5 pages of comments about how Zen 2 is going to be terrible is a tiny fan goes to show how far they've come. You know you're doing a good job when the fanboys are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find things to complain about.

Anyway, make sure ya'll watch your manicure.
Posted on Reply
#106
Midland Dog
of course navi is at "Hot" chips, gunna probs be 2070 level but use more megawatts than the star navi produces and run hotter than its fusion core
Posted on Reply
#107
HD64G
TheLostSwede said:

Tad high TDP there...
Since you have some sources about zen2 cpus, I hope you are correct and they manage high clocks and core number with less W, but even if they manage what I think, those cpus will be winners if priced correctly and are clocked close to 5GHz.
Posted on Reply
#108
oxidized
Chomiq said:

Dear Watson, look at other x570 board designs (Biostar and Colorful) with the exact same style of M.2 covers next to the chipset fan.
I'm talking about these 2, i'm sure there'll be some without, but if most use it and they look to be for the chipset, then they probably need it, because it seems there's no space for m2 slots under them, and the m2 slots are located somewhere else.
TheLostSwede said:

Please read my earlier replies instead of asking the same question over and over.
Thanks, they were more like rhetorical questions. Answers to that will come with time.

Tomorrow said:

People always mistakenly think lower price is AMD's only advantage. What about security? I don't hear Ryzen being plagued with holes every other month. Lower temperatures too. Upgradeability thanks to long term support for sockets and chipsets.

Yes Intel is faster except for specific use cases like tiled rendering (CineBench) and decompression. But that speed advantage comes at the cost of 30-100% higher depending on what products you compare. For some people it's worth it to get that extra 10-15% IPC on top even with higher temps and potential security issues.

Frankly i get the feeling that AMD is relegating both Intel and Nvidia more and more to the high end enthusiast market where buying 550$ CPU's and 1200$ GPU's is the norm.
Ryzen has already made everything below i7 models not worth it and done the same with APU's to graphics cards below the 125$ mark.
AMD's clear advantage is only cause of their pricing, nothing else. Security? We're talking about a 10 years old arch, and besides these flaws only interest server/workstation grade hardware, consumer can sleep tight they won't suffer from that, because hackers won't even bother hacking "poors".

AMD is relegating both intel and nvidia to that market, by underpricing their lower quality products (not all of them luckily). Also there's always different needs, people need to understand ryzen isn't better for everyone, ryzen is better for the mainstream market (because it's cheaper), for gaming it doesn't perform like intel, and i'm not only talking about fps. I have several friends who were very happy to swap to AMD from intel, but in 1/2 years they swear they notice something off from when they used intel, like random lag spikes, even on newer models like 2700, like this friend of mine who swapped from a i5 6400 to a r7 2700 and with the same graphics card (asus strix 1060 6GB), and he swears that his gaming sessions are not as smooth as they were with a much less powerful processor.
Posted on Reply
#109
TheLostSwede
HD64G said:

Since you have some sources about zen2 cpus, I hope you are correct and they manage high clocks and core number with less W, but even if they manage what I think, those cpus will be winners if priced correctly and are clocked close to 5GHz.
Let's just say, based on what I know, there's no need for panic. Current coolers should be fine, with a possible exception for the 16 core parts or if you want to try and clock your CPU as high as possible and then some. The chiplet design seems to have enabled much better thermals as well.
Posted on Reply
#110
HD64G
TheLostSwede said:

Let's just say, based on what I know, there's no need for panic. Current coolers should be fine, with a possible exception for the 16 core parts or if you want to try and clock your CPU as high as possible and then some. The chiplet design seems to have enabled much better thermals as well.
Those are some very good news. Thanks for sharing with us. :toast:
Posted on Reply
#111
dicktracy
oxidized said:

I'm talking about these 2, i'm sure there'll be some without, but if most use it and they look to be for the chipset, then they probably need it, because it seems there's no space for m2 slots under them, and the m2 slots are located somewhere else.


Thanks, they were more like rhetorical questions. Answers to that will come with time.



AMD's clear advantage is only cause of their pricing, nothing else. Security? We're talking about a 10 years old arch, and besides these flaws only interest server/workstation grade hardware, consumer can sleep tight they won't suffer from that, because hackers won't even bother hacking "poors".

AMD is relegating both intel and nvidia to that market, by underpricing their lower quality products (not all of them luckily). Also there's always different needs, people need to understand ryzen isn't better for everyone, ryzen is better for the mainstream market (because it's cheaper), for gaming it doesn't perform like intel, and i'm not only talking about fps. I have several friends who were very happy to swap to AMD from intel, but in 1/2 years they swear they notice something off from when they used intel, like random lag spikes, even on newer models like 2700, like this friend of mine who swapped from a i5 6400 to a r7 2700 and with the same graphics card (asus strix 1060 6GB), and he swears that his gaming sessions are not as smooth as they were with a much less powerful processor.
It's called stuttery frametimes and high latency XD
Posted on Reply
#112
B-Real
notb said:

A tiny fan on the chipset. That's just sad.

Also, how is this possible on Zen in particular? For 2 years I've been hearing how Zen being a SoC is so great because the chipset has hardly any function (hence it's cheap and so on).
What happened between X470 and X570 that they suddenly need a fan? PCIe4.0 controller?

A ~40mm slim fan - perfect addition to your cool and quiet - power efficient - Zen2 system.
If B550 doesn't get a fan, you get the answer.
Posted on Reply
#113
efikkan
I do hope this launch doesn't end up like many recent launches from all three parties; announcement, then "paper launch", then reviews, then low volumes for months…
At least AMD have the advantage of having compatible motherboards already on the market.
Posted on Reply
#114
oxidized
dicktracy said:

It's called stuttery frametimes and high latency XD
Yeah and that's what they've been having since they swapped to ryzen, and what feels worse about it is that it was me who suggested them those configs and they bought that because they trust me and i trusted what i read on the internet way too easily.
Posted on Reply
#115
NdMk2o1o
efikkan said:

I do hope this launch doesn't end up like many recent launches from all three parties; announcement, then "paper launch", then reviews, then low volumes for months…
At least AMD have the advantage of having compatible motherboards already on the market.
I know there were shortages of Intel CPU's and the Radeon Vii which was more of a limited edition than general launch imo cause of 7nm and they needed "something" since RTX, but there have not been any shortages of either Ryzen series from launch and they have sold consistently.
Posted on Reply
#116
Aqeel Shahzad
notb said:

A tiny fan on the chipset. That's just sad.

Also, how is this possible on Zen in particular? For 2 years I've been hearing how Zen being a SoC is so great because the chipset has hardly any function (hence it's cheap and so on).
What happened between X470 and X570 that they suddenly need a fan? PCIe4.0 controller?

A ~40mm slim fan - perfect addition to your cool and quiet - power efficient - Zen2 system.
I dont think so the PCIe4.0 controller might be an integrated part of processor. The fan may assist in cooling of nvme drives heatsinks.
Posted on Reply
#117
TheGuruStud
oxidized said:

Yeah and that's what they've been having since they swapped to ryzen, and what feels worse about it is that it was me who suggested them those configs and they bought that because they trust me and i trusted what i read on the internet way too easily.
Tell them to turn off power saving mode and get rid of the 1060 lol. 1060 is so lowly that there is no noticeable frame drops and quite the opposite is true of zen with the extra threads under the hood. Plus, just pure grunt compared that 6400 joke.

Unless he only plays Hitman 2 which is another joke.

Does he manually tweak game settings? Games probably saw the new CPU and turned up settings. And did he honestly leave it at stock, b/c a 2700 has low all core clocks (duh).
Posted on Reply
#118
Tomorrow
oxidized said:
AMD's clear advantage is only cause of their pricing, nothing else.
That's a very narrow minded view of things. It might be the biggest advantage but not the only one.
Posted on Reply
#119
xCelestial
Navi is like a cut-down version of Vega 7 that's just as fast as RTX 2080 but without a ray-tracing accelerator...so let's hope it can offer better than that when it launches
Posted on Reply
#120
TheLostSwede
Aqeel Shahzad said:

I dont think so the PCIe4.0 controller might be an integrated part of processor. The fan may assist in cooling of nvme drives heatsinks.
Yes and no. Look at the current design, things haven't changed that much.
Posted on Reply
#121
Aqeel Shahzad
TheLostSwede said:

Yes and no. Look at the current design, things haven't changed that much.
Then lets asume OC potential may be assisted by this fan if thats meant to OC southbridge.
Posted on Reply
#122
TheLostSwede
Aqeel Shahzad said:

Then lets asume OC potential may be assisted by this fan if thats meant to OC southbridge.
What southbridge? Chipset you mean? And why would you want to overclock it?
Posted on Reply
#123
Valantar
Aqeel Shahzad said:

I dont think so the PCIe4.0 controller might be an integrated part of processor. The fan may assist in cooling of nvme drives heatsinks.
The CPU has an integrated PCIe 4.0 controller, yes. The question is whether the chipset has a PCIe 4.0 switch for peripheral devices, storage, etc. If the old rumor of AMD reusing their EPYC chipset for X570 is true, then it will indeed contain a PCIe 4.0 switch, but also have a 15W TDP. That's not unheard of for a chipset, but still a bit high. Nothing that can't be handled by a decent fin stack in a case with decent airflow, but it might require a fan in less-than-ideal conditions under heavy load. 15W is a full laptop CPU/APU after all. Cooling that passively is challenging. Then again, a chipset is highly unlikely to be stressed significantly over long periods of time.

My main concern is what this might mean for ITX boards. I'm guessing the chipset package still isn't very large, but implementing proper cooling will be even more of a challenge. Might be enough to just run a heatpipe from it into the VRM fin stack though. Nonetheless, I really want a high-end ITX board with two (or even better, three) m.2 slots. Of course, Asus already does have two on their boards, but that takes away bandwidth from the GPU. Doesn't matter much, but it's not ideal.
Posted on Reply
#124
oxidized
TheGuruStud said:

Tell them to turn off power saving mode and get rid of the 1060 lol. 1060 is so lowly that there is no noticeable frame drops and quite the opposite is true of zen with the extra threads under the hood. Plus, just pure grunt compared that 6400 joke.

Unless he only plays Hitman 2 which is another joke.

Does he manually tweak game settings? Games probably saw the new CPU and turned up settings. And did he honestly leave it at stock, b/c a 2700 has low all core clocks (duh).
Power saving mode, lol, are you serious? Like i'm playing with the same card on a overclocked 2600K and i'm not having any of those problems. The system was installed fresh and everything is new except the video card, also another friend of mine uses a 1080ti and he has the same kind of problems, but just slightly less noticeable. Hitman 2 ran decently on my system, with not stellar framerate but neither drops or hiccups or freezes. He does tweak the game settings, but those problems aren't caused by tweaking wrong or at all game settings, there's just something wrong with the hardware, but it's not like it's faulty it's just that it doesn't seem to perform that smooth, or at least as not smooth as the much less powerful 6400. They both did overclock their CPUs, for what was worth it, since ryzen isn't that great overclocker and a couple hundreds MHz more aren't going to change the world.

Tomorrow said:

That's a very narrow minded view of things. It might be the biggest advantage but not the only one.
And what other advantages are there? That they keep sockets for more than 1 gen? Wow, how useful, as if i'm going to swap processor every generation and like me many others...
Posted on Reply
#125
Aqeel Shahzad
TheLostSwede said:

What southbridge? Chipset you mean? And why would you want to overclock it?
Yes definitely the chipset, my bad i should refer it as the chipset because Northbridge is now to be integrated inside the processor (long time from now)

Northbridge use to be OC but i dont think thats even done with the chipset now. Correct me if im wrong.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment