Monday, September 28th 2020

US Government Could Blacklist Chinese Chipmaker SMIC

The Trump administration has reportedly been considering adding to Chinese chipmaker SMIC (Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation) to the trade blacklist of Chinese companies, restricting the company of doing any business with the United States and/or with any of its affiliates. The original report comes from Reuters and it states that the move came from Pentagon after considering whatever SMIC should be placed on a blacklist. It is so far unclear if other US agencies support the decision, however, it should be public in the near future. The company has received the news on Saturday and it was "in complete shock" about the decision. Shortly after the news broke, SMIC stock has fallen as much as 15% amid the possible blacklist. If SMIC would like to continue working with American suppliers, it would need to seek a difficult-to-obtain license from the government.

Update 28th September: The United States government has officially imposed sanctions on the Chinese chipmaker SMIC. The company is now under US sanctions and is placed on a trade blacklist.
Source: Reuters
Add your own comment

82 Comments on US Government Could Blacklist Chinese Chipmaker SMIC

#1
tigger
I'm the only one
Let America alienate the much needed Chinese tech companies. they are just being paranoid and cutting their nose off to spite their face. there probably is not the manufacturing capabilitie in america to replace all the Chinese companies( who they have probably been dealing with for years with no problem ) they are alienating. Trump is a joke.
Posted on Reply
#2
TheLostSwede
tigger
Let America alienate the much needed Chinese tech companies. they are just being paranoid and cutting their nose off to spite their face. there probably is not the manufacturing capabilitie in america to replace all the Chinese companies( who they have probably been dealing with for years with no problem ) they are alienating. Trump is a joke.
Much needed for what exactly?
I have no need for them. I would much rather that Japan, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and other Asian countries took over from China, or why not move some of it back to North America or Europe?
What is good with China being in charge of so much of what is being manufactured? They've only ended up in this position because it's been cheap to make things there, not because it's better quality or because it's a nice place.
And there's no paranoia, go and learn a bit about what's going on in China, look at how much technology China has stolen or otherwise illegally obtained over the years. Not that long ago, foreign companies that wanted to set up a business in China had to transfer technology rights to the Chinese government, or they were not allowed to operate in China. The foreign entity wasn't allowed to own more than 49% of the company and a lot of businesses lost their entire operation there due to this. It's a nation that is rotten to the core.

That said, I'm no Trump supporter. Nor do I support Putin. But to say that the Chinese tech companies are needed is a lie.
Posted on Reply
#3
Verpal
TheLostSwede
That said, I'm no Trump supporter. Nor do I support Putin. But to say that the Chinese tech companies are needed is a lie.
In case I missed something, Putin (or Russia or Silovik in general) has stake in current sanction against Chinese companies?
Posted on Reply
#4
BArms
tigger
Let America alienate the much needed Chinese tech companies. they are just being paranoid and cutting their nose off to spite their face. there probably is not the manufacturing capabilitie in america to replace all the Chinese companies( who they have probably been dealing with for years with no problem ) they are alienating. Trump is a joke.
The joke/funny thing is also going to be how easily Trump wins re-election thanks to decades of people shilling for China and selling their political souls to them.
Posted on Reply
#5
Mark Little
And the war over who has the bigger dick, Trump or Xi Jinping, continues...
Posted on Reply
#6
john_
LOL,.... only a big LOL. And the not so funny part is that these kind of decisions are not even a surprise. I mean, just blacklist everything Chinese and let Chinese do the same with US companies already.
Posted on Reply
#7
Mark Little
john_
LOL,.... only a big LOL. And the not so funny part is that these kind of decisions are not even a surprise. I mean, just blacklist everything Chinese and let Chinese do the same with US companies already.
I agree. This piecemeal crap is for scoring political points only and what happens when countries lack good leaders.
Posted on Reply
#8
lexluthermiester
tigger
Let America alienate the much needed Chinese tech companies.
Good idea! Let's give opportunities to other, less d-bagish nations to make products.
Posted on Reply
#9
Assimilator
TheLostSwede
Much needed for what exactly?
I have no need for them. I would much rather that Japan, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and other Asian countries took over from China, or why not move some of it back to North America or Europe?
What is good with China being in charge of so much of what is being manufactured? They've only ended up in this position because it's been cheap to make things there, not because it's better quality or because it's a nice place.
And there's no paranoia, go and learn a bit about what's going on in China, look at how much technology China has stolen or otherwise illegally obtained over the years. Not that long ago, foreign companies that wanted to set up a business in China had to transfer technology rights to the Chinese government, or they were not allowed to operate in China. The foreign entity wasn't allowed to own more than 49% of the company and a lot of businesses lost their entire operation there due to this. It's a nation that is rotten to the core.

That said, I'm no Trump supporter. Nor do I support Putin. But to say that the Chinese tech companies are needed is a lie.
The neoliberal forces that cheered China's destruction of their home nations' manufacturing capabilities so that they could profit, are now the same ones demanding that China stop doing what made them rich. Of course, they're not demanding it because it makes sense, but because it gets them votes. After all, they're not going to be affected economically either way, so why do they care? Once they get into government, they can simply claim it costs too much, and poof, another election promise thrown by the wayside just like their integrity.

The only way manufacturing comes back to the West is if it's done entirely by robots, and since that doesn't create jobs, it's unlikely to be welcomed and hence supported.

Eastern Asian nations are likely to start taking on some of China's manufacturing capability but China has literally spent decades focusing solely on building up the infrastructure to be the world's production house. Even with massive Western investment, nations such as Vietnam simply aren't going to be able to scale up to those levels; not now, not ever.

India might be able to fill the Chinese gap in terms of size and numbers, and it's probably in the world's best interest for it to do so - but India also has a problem with Muslims, just like China. It's not at internment camp levels yet, but do you really want to have to choose between having your motherboard manufactured by a nation that treats an ethnic minority like prisoners, or by one that treats them slightly less badly?

At this point, all we can really hope is that the nationalists and neoliberals are replaced by saner people who aren't intent on having power for power's sake... before they start the war to end all wars.
Posted on Reply
#10
Bones
And I guess all the Trump haters would rather him just lie down and let China do as it will like his predecessors have.

You may not like him personally or the way he does things BUT at least he's doing something vs all the rest which have done exactly squat about it up until now. Maybe you don't agree with it and that's fine, even if it doesn't work at least it's a tangible attempt to do so which is more than what's happened up until now, successful or not.
Posted on Reply
#11
the54thvoid
A lot of people seem to forget it was the previous, Obama administration that started moving against Huawei. It's not about Trump. I have wondered why so many larger Chinese companies haven't been targeted yet.

I don't think it's wise mind you. Wars tend to get ugly. Diplomacy often works better. The more China is targeted, the more hostile it becomes.
Posted on Reply
#12
Bones
the54thvoid
A lot of people seem to forget it was the previous, Obama administration that started moving against Huawei. It's not about Trump. I have wondered why so many larger Chinese companies haven't been targeted yet.
TBH I was never aware of that nor ever heard anything about it.
However if thats really is true Trump is just following up on what Obama did, taking it further.
the54thvoid
I don't think it's wise mind you. Wars tend to get ugly. Diplomacy often works better. The more China is targeted, the more hostile it becomes.
Problem with that is China will become more aggressive over time anyway, history has shown it as fact so whether someone stands up to them or not is a non-issue about it.
With all those little islands they are making to extend their military influence as examples and so on, It's not a matter of them being targeted that will make them more aggressive, more like enboldened to do so by success with their agenda.

The more progress they make the more they'll do like other regimes have done in the past and it's just human nature to push things to see how far one can go.....
Like it was in school and you were the class clown - Always testing the edge of things just to see if you can get away with it or not and you already know the consequenses of failure.
Posted on Reply
#13
prtskg
the54thvoid
A lot of people seem to forget it was the previous, Obama administration that started moving against Huawei. It's not about Trump. I have wondered why so many larger Chinese companies haven't been targeted yet.

I don't think it's wise mind you. Wars tend to get ugly. Diplomacy often works better. The more China is targeted, the more hostile it becomes.
Isn't China already too aggressive with its neighbors? Every now and then I keep hearing them having some problems with India, Japan, Vietnam, etc. If USA wants to keep China in check, I doubt it'll be a very bad decision.
Posted on Reply
#14
the54thvoid
If you consider how many 'outposts' the old empires of Europe and the US have a across the globe, and consider the displacement of indiginous people by said acts, it's naive to see China as the sole aggressor. Yes, it's a very intolerant government with an atrocious human rights record. But it's not alone. Saudi, the UK and the US's biggest arms customer is one of the worst in the world. But damn, those pounds and dollars....

I just find the binary, West is good, China bad mantra , a tad tedious and ill-informed.
prtskg
Isn't China already too aggressive with its neighbors? Every now and then I keep hearing them having some problems with India, Japan, Vietnam, etc. If USA wants to keep China in check, I doubt it'll be a very bad decision.
Japan used Chinese women as rape prisoners in WW2. Go Google it. China was trampled on for centuries.

Edit: FTR, I'd never choose to live in China. Beautiful country spoiled by its government.
Posted on Reply
#15
BoboOOZ
TheLostSwede
Not that long ago, foreign companies that wanted to set up a business in China had to transfer technology rights to the Chinese government, or they were not allowed to operate in China. The foreign entity wasn't allowed to own more than 49% of the company and a lot of businesses lost their entire operation there due to this. It's a nation that is rotten to the core.
From what I know, that's still a requirement in place, right now.

In the short term, I think this economic war is bad news, especially to consumers. In the short long term, it forces the West to be less dependent on a single country, which should be beneficial. We all now competition and free markets are good, right.

Trump is definitely a moron, but maybe it's better to start this economic war sooner than later.
Posted on Reply
#16
R0H1T
Assimilator
but India also has a problem with Muslims
Yeah if only the Empire didn't leave that massive shite behind called the Partition :rolleyes:

And FYI a lot of the issues we have right now is pandering to what is perceived as the PC culture, especially with Congress at the helm. Not to mention the issues with Pak sponsored state terrorism ~ yes this is why there's a lot more friction than in the past. It's not like India has been independent for 73 years & the issues with Muslims have mostly crept in only in the past decade or two, yeah BJP has something to do with it so has that BS global WoT & of course everyone's favorite word salad Jihad.

When you're making a point at least know what you're talking about!
Posted on Reply
#17
xkm1948
the54thvoid
I just find the binary, West is good, China bad mantra , a tad tedious and ill-informed.


Japan used Chinese women as rape prisoners in WW2. Go Google it. China was trampled on for centuries.

Edit: FTR, I'd never choose to live in China. Beautiful country spoiled by its government.
Exactly this. Replace China with Japan, Russia, India and it all works.

Tribalism,. the "US versus THEM" mentality is what ultimately driving all these rage induced discussions.

Independent critical thinking takes effort, most of the time folks would rather be lazy and reduce ourselves to simply binary thinking.


FWIW, Chinese government pulled one the world largest population off poverty. Maybe not so evil for those several generations of people who were struggling on the death line.
Posted on Reply
#18
R0H1T
The vast majority of them ethnic Hans, whilst suppressing minorities like Uighurs, Tibetans et al with an iron fist. But of course you know that, then there's this ~

China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization

Tell me how does it feel comparing large scale internment reeducation caps to whatever else other countries are doing atm :rolleyes:

Yes a lot of nations on the planet are no better than others with their systemic faults, including what I'd call is the secular divide over here. Then going on to justify what China is doing at an industrial scale, yup can see the great logic there :wtf:
Posted on Reply
#19
Vayra86
Assimilator
The neoliberal forces that cheered China's destruction of their home nations' manufacturing capabilities so that they could profit, are now the same ones demanding that China stop doing what made them rich. Of course, they're not demanding it because it makes sense, but because it gets them votes. After all, they're not going to be affected economically either way, so why do they care? Once they get into government, they can simply claim it costs too much, and poof, another election promise thrown by the wayside just like their integrity.

The only way manufacturing comes back to the West is if it's done entirely by robots, and since that doesn't create jobs, it's unlikely to be welcomed and hence supported.

Eastern Asian nations are likely to start taking on some of China's manufacturing capability but China has literally spent decades focusing solely on building up the infrastructure to be the world's production house. Even with massive Western investment, nations such as Vietnam simply aren't going to be able to scale up to those levels; not now, not ever.

India might be able to fill the Chinese gap in terms of size and numbers, and it's probably in the world's best interest for it to do so - but India also has a problem with Muslims, just like China. It's not at internment camp levels yet, but do you really want to have to choose between having your motherboard manufactured by a nation that treats an ethnic minority like prisoners, or by one that treats them slightly less badly?

At this point, all we can really hope is that the nationalists and neoliberals are replaced by saner people who aren't intent on having power for power's sake... before they start the war to end all wars.
This. Although I do believe much of the work is automated already and human hands are still required. Its an overestimation of the state of robot tech to think it can take over entirely. Parts are possible already today... but many parts are also not... and a robotized industry also needs hands.

The shift to new work is something that will be slow and with some moments of acceleration. We saw this with the internet. Its still ongoing. And some jobs are actually flowing back to the real world as well. The trend however is still that we're going to be more people and less 'required' work to be done as time goes on. That will inevitably shift the production power away from China. These statements about moving production... it will happen... but the economy of it is the deciding factor - not politics. We saw this with the COVID crisis and still do - economy first. Everywhere. Notably also in India, where as we speak they suffer the highest count of new infections per day worldwide, and lack testing capacity, and public / crowd control measures. Overcrowded cities, bad hygiene in large parts of the population... but the government can't maintain lockdowns as everything would collapse.

This war to end all wars... I feel you. Something is brewing, events are mounting up everywhere and from all sorts of new angles. Its going to be interesting if we're really willing to spend immense resources to fight over.... resources - a number of which are finite. So far, I see a lot of reluctance, except on a smaller - or proxy - kind of scale. Like the Middle East/Syria and now recently Turkey and Greece, who are showing muscle in the Mediterranean Sea at this time. These are NATO allies.
Posted on Reply
#20
the54thvoid
Okay, back to SMIC.

Does anybody care to discuss the technology of government sponsored espionage and backdoors?
Posted on Reply
#21
Assimilator
China was fine until Xi Jinping came along - just like America was fine until Trump, and Britain was fine until Cameron, and India was fine until Modi, and and and...

The common thread is the direction in which these wannabe dictators and their parties lean.

Today it's possible to have a world where nobody starves, nobody dies due to inadequate healthcare, nobody has to worry about being kicked out of their home, nobody has to worry about affording heating in winter... but as long as the various factions are able to convince their supporters that it's better to fight than share, we'll never be able to achieve that world.

That's why Elon Musk wants to go to Mars. To start a new society, one free of these sins of greed.
Posted on Reply
#22
R0H1T
Assimilator
China was fine until Xi Jinping came along - just like America was fine until Trump, and Britain was fine until Cameron, and India was fine until Modi, and and and...
You're kidding, were you born yesterday or what? China was not fine until Xi, nor was the US of A till Trump, UK till Cameron or India till Modi.
If you seriously believe that then you're even more ignorant than I thought :shadedshu:

This has been brewing for decades even centuries, just that with the growing income inequality & now nCoV it's just gone to an extreme that is hard to ignore!
Posted on Reply
#23
Vayra86
the54thvoid
Okay, back to SMIC.

Does anybody care to discuss the technology of government sponsored espionage and backdoors?
What is there to discuss other than the political (and just overall influence on the state of the world) aspect of it, I wonder. We all know espionage happens on both sides, and we know nothing of the details. Gonna be a brief discussion.
Assimilator
China was fine until Xi Jinping came along - just like America was fine until Trump, and Britain was fine until Cameron, and India was fine until Modi, and and and...

The common thread is the direction in which these wannabe dictators and their parties lean.

Today it's possible to have a world where nobody starves, nobody dies due to inadequate healthcare, nobody has to worry about being kicked out of their home, nobody has to worry about affording heating in winter... but as long as the various factions are able to convince their supporters that it's better to fight than share, we'll never be able to achieve that world.

That's why Elon Musk wants to go to Mars. To start a new society, one free of these sins of greed.
Yeah we all just gotta go watch Star Trek and see how its done. And I'm only half joking.
Posted on Reply
#25
the54thvoid
Vayra86
We all just gotta go watch Star Trek and see how its done. And I'm only half joking.
No. As a moderator, I insist. The philosophy of Bill and Ted. Be excellent to one another. Probably from the second film.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment