Wednesday, May 12th 2021

AMD "Navi 24" is the Smallest RDNA2 GPU Yet, Could Power RX 6400 Series

The 7 nm "Navi 24" silicon will very likely be the smallest discrete GPU based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture. The chip surfaced in technical documentation under the codename "Beige Goby." AMD uses such internal codenames to track sources of leaks. No specs of the "Navi 24" are known yet, but it could be significantly smaller than the "Navi 23" that powers the Radeon RX 6600 series and possibly the RX 6500 series, reportedly packing up to 2,048 stream processors. The "Navi 24" chip could also help AMD compete against NVIDIA and an emerging Intel in entry-level discrete GPUs for notebooks.
Sources: Phoronix, Tom's Hardware
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26 Comments on AMD "Navi 24" is the Smallest RDNA2 GPU Yet, Could Power RX 6400 Series

#1
R0H1T
"Navi 24" silicon will very likely be the smallest discrete GPU based on the RDNA2
And probably still comes with 2x as much memory as equivalent Nvidia parts :laugh:
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#2
AusWolf
My 2 cents: make it with a TDP of 75 W, low profile form factor, 4 (or preferably 6) GB VRAM, and I'm all in! It's been a while since we've seen a low profile, low power gaming card from AMD (it was back in the HD 5/6000 series I believe).
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#3
TumbleGeorge
AusWolfMy 2 cents: make it with a TDP of 75 W, low profile form factor, 4 (or preferably 6) GB VRAM, and I'm all in! It's been a while since we've seen a low profile, low power gaming card from AMD (it was back in the HD 5/6000 series I believe).
Because RX 5300 has been with 3GB via 96 bit bus... reasonable will be RX 6400 to be with 6GB.
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#4
R0H1T
TumbleGeorgereasonable will be RX 6400 to be with 6GB.
Depends I doubt they can justify the pricing with 6GB GDDR6(?) so as much as I'd like to there's unlikely gonna be a 1050Ti replacement in the sub $200 range anytime in the short to medium term.
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#5
AusWolf
TumbleGeorgeBecause RX 5300 has been with 3GB via 96 bit bus... reasonable will be RX 6400 to be with 6GB.
I have never seen a single RX 5300 listed anywhere.
R0H1TDepends I doubt they can justify the pricing with 6GB GDDR6(?) so as much as I'd like to there's unlikely gonna be a 1050Ti replacement in the sub $200 range anytime in the short to medium term.
If not from AMD, then maybe from nvidia in the RTX 3050? They took the effort to make the 1650 after all.
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#6
TumbleGeorge
AusWolfI have never seen a single RX 5300 listed anywhere.
Was for OEM only.
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#7
beautyless
Expect RX 570 performance with 6GB vram in sub $150.
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#8
Valantar
AusWolfMy 2 cents: make it with a TDP of 75 W, low profile form factor, 4 (or preferably 6) GB VRAM, and I'm all in! It's been a while since we've seen a low profile, low power gaming card from AMD (it was back in the HD 5/6000 series I believe).
I would love to see that. It's about time someone puts the efficiency gains from current generations of GPUs to good use in the HHHL form factor. The main limitation is of course board space - fitting a large enough package + all the RAM might be a major challenge. But if it retains 32MB of IC and uses a 96-bit bus, it might be possible.
beautylessExpect RX 570 performance with 6GB vram in sub $150.
"sub $150" for a GPU. In 2021? :roll: Oh man, you crack me up. Yes, that is where this ought to live. But my bets are on ~$400 (street price).


Still, this could get really interesting. This die should be small enough for each wafer to yield hundreds of dice, making production fast and high volume even in relatively limited runs. VRAM supply might be more of a bottleneck, really. But this could provide some much-needed improvements in the low range.
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#9
ExcuseMeWtf
Well, those will probably not yield that great mining performance and smaller dies are easier to mass produce, so there is a chance those will have some actual availability.
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#10
AusWolf
ExcuseMeWtfWell, those will probably not yield that great mining performance and smaller dies are easier to mass produce, so there is a chance those will have some actual availability.
I hope you're right, though demand will be higher as well because of the more affordable price range.
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#11
neblogai
TumbleGeorgeBecause RX 5300 has been with 3GB via 96 bit bus... reasonable will be RX 6400 to be with 6GB.
There is a question of number of CUs in N24 (24CUs in previous leaks, but just 16CUs in this latest leak), but memory bandwidth was always said to be 64-bit. Thus- we should expect 4GB cards here.
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#12
TumbleGeorge
neblogaiThere is a question of number of CUs in N24 (24CUs in previous leaks, but just 16CUs in this latest leak), but memory bandwidth was always said to be 64-bit. Thus- we should expect 4GB cards here.
Leaks, rumors will see when done.
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#13
RealKGB
AusWolfMy 2 cents: make it with a TDP of 75 W, low profile form factor, 4 (or preferably 6) GB VRAM, and I'm all in! It's been a while since we've seen a low profile, low power gaming card from AMD (it was back in the HD 5/6000 series I believe).
They should also make a single-slot card again. We haven't seen those since the RX 550.
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#14
TheinsanegamerN
AusWolfMy 2 cents: make it with a TDP of 75 W, low profile form factor, 4 (or preferably 6) GB VRAM, and I'm all in! It's been a while since we've seen a low profile, low power gaming card from AMD (it was back in the HD 5/6000 series I believe).
I'm still hoping for a 128 bit 8GB RX 6400 to replace the 4GB RX 560. Going from 14nm GCN to 7nm rDNA2 is going to be nothing short of a massive jump. It'll likely use GDDR5, although GDDR6 is a possibility.

But Ineed a 75w low profile upgrade. The 560 just doesnt cut it anymore.
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#15
Valantar
TheinsanegamerNI'm still hoping for a 128 bit 8GB RX 6400 to replace the 4GB RX 560. Going from 14nm GCN to 7nm rDNA2 is going to be nothing short of a massive jump. It'll likely use GDDR5, although GDDR6 is a possibility.

But Ineed a 75w low profile upgrade. The 560 just doesnt cut it anymore.
GDDR5 is being phased out of mass production, or at least phased out of GPU usage (other markets like automotive might keep using it, but in smaller amounts). It's highly unlikely that any 6000-series GPUs will get GDDR5. The price delta isn't huge either these days. Given that the 1650 lp had four VRAM packages a 128-bit layout should be doable, but it depends on a lot of factors - GPU size, GPU package size, where on the die the VRAM controllers are located, etc. Hopefully AMD has taken this into consideration though.
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#16
TumbleGeorge
If AMD cut bus to misery 64 bit all mouth will be closed :D
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#17
Colddecked
It'd be shocking if this wasn't mobile only...
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#18
medi01
ValantarBut my bets are on ~$400 (street price).
But why?
I mean, is it of any use to people who are into crypto bubbles?
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#19
Valantar
medi01But why?
I mean, is it of any use to people who are into crypto bubbles?
Given that they're currently buying literally anything, my bet would be on yes. And scalpers will be scalpers, regardless of crypto demand. As long as there's scarcity, prices will be high.
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#20
Chrispy_
I'm going to guess that this is a no-raytracing part, much like the Geforce 16xx series.

Sure, they could put raytracing in it, but who wants single-digit framerates at 720p?
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#21
Valantar
Chrispy_I'm going to guess that this is a no-raytracing part, much like the Geforce 16xx series.

Sure, they could put raytracing in it, but who wants single-digit framerates at 720p?
I would guess that depends on the efficacy of... uh, what's it called again? That not-quite-DLSS thing. Given that Nvidia is including RT hardware on the 50 series they may see the need to deliver it across the board, though as you say, I don't see much use in a 6400 series even with upscaling. Then again, wouldn't removing it require them to make a bespoke sub-version of RDNA2 CUs specifically for this lineup, seeing how RT processors are integrated into the CU?
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#22
ZoneDymo
Chrispy_I'm going to guess that this is a no-raytracing part, much like the Geforce 16xx series.

Sure, they could put raytracing in it, but who wants single-digit framerates at 720p?
all about optimisation, said it before, if DLSS or FSR would work specifically for RT "effects" that could be decent.
Low resolution ray tracing effects like reflections but then upscaled and reconstructed using DLSS or FSR so performance is good and image quality is good enough
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#23
TheinsanegamerN
Chrispy_I'm going to guess that this is a no-raytracing part, much like the Geforce 16xx series.

Sure, they could put raytracing in it, but who wants single-digit framerates at 720p?
rDNA2's raytracing is not seperate hardware, it's done with their GPGPU cores. rDNA without raytracing would be rDNA1.
ColddeckedIt'd be shocking if this wasn't mobile only...
Well the MX150 saw a desktop release in the GT 1030, and the 75 watt desktop market is still fairly large. It'll likely see a desktop release with any dies that are not efficient enough for mobile use.
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#24
Chrispy_
It looks like Rembrandt will have 12CUs of RDNA2 (at most) according to rumours this week.

If you look at the raytracing performance of the 6800XT with 72CUs, and then assume that clocks will be closer to half the speed on the APU's RDNA2 CUs, you could be looking at 1/12th the performance and that's probably not enough to make an image, the lack of samples will be so noisy that no amount of magic DLSS equivalent or noise reduction is going to make a good image out of it.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. Cheaper, better-looking graphics are great for everyone but raytracing tech is still very much a brute-force method of rendering and heavily cut down parts don't tick the box for brute-force tools.
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#25
Valantar
Chrispy_It looks like Rembrandt will have 12CUs of RDNA2 (at most) according to rumours this week.

If you look at the raytracing performance of the 6800XT with 72CUs, and then assume that clocks will be closer to half the speed on the APU's RDNA2 CUs, you could be looking at 1/12th the performance and that's probably not enough to make an image, the lack of samples will be so noisy that no amount of magic DLSS equivalent or noise reduction is going to make a good image out of it.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. Cheaper, better-looking graphics are great for everyone but raytracing tech is still very much a brute-force method of rendering and heavily cut down parts don't tick the box for brute-force tools.
At that point they'll probably leave those parts of the silicon dark to lower the thermal density of the chip.
TheinsanegamerNrDNA2's raytracing is not seperate hardware, it's done with their GPGPU cores. rDNA without raytracing would be rDNA1.
There is bespoke hardware, but it's integrated into the cores (BVH calculations and so on). Without bespoke hardware they couldn't run the necessary calculations at a sufficient performance level.
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