Monday, August 30th 2021

Microsoft to Ban Unsupported Machines from Windows 11 Updates

With pre-release builds of Microsoft's upcoming operating system, Windows 11, doing rounds, the PC enthusiast community has developed various workarounds to the system requirement of a hardware trusted-platform module 2.0 (TPM 2.0) for the operating system. Microsoft itself also suggested that those on older machines (without TPMs), who cannot upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11, have the option of performing a clean-installation of the new operating system using its ISO installer disk image.

These machines, however, will be treated as "unsupported," will not have access to Windows Update, and may potentially be barred from receiving important security updates. Microsoft recommends, however, that those who don't meet the system requirements of Windows 11 remain on Windows 10. The company plans to maintain support for Windows 10 up to October 14, 2025, which means four more years of security updates for the older operating system. The choice, hence, would be between upgrading hardware to meet Windows 11 requirements, or to remain on Windows 10 until Q4-2025.
Source: HotHardware
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117 Comments on Microsoft to Ban Unsupported Machines from Windows 11 Updates

#26
Hardware Geek
No automatic updates for systems that don't meet their system requirements doesn't bother me as long as I can update manually. Then I can wait and see of the updates cause problems for others before updating!
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#27
iO
Rejoice, ransomware is upon you.
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#28
Mysteoa
Hyderzmicrosoft needs to be clear about which machines can receive updates.
like asus just released z270 boards with support 6th and 7th gen cpu and enable tpm 2.0, these machine qualify for updates?
but microsoft websites only states 8th gen and upwards support windows updates from what i can understand
Microsoft doesn't care what MB you are running and if it supports tpm 2.0 or not. They just care what CPU you have for their "stability" to be as desired. According to them, the approved CPU list have 99.8% stability, but not approved CPU have 50% more crashes. So non approved CPU are 99.7% stable which is not enough for MS.
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#29
puma99dk|
Lol so if Microsoft "choose" not to open up for 6 and 7gen Intel CPU's some of us will be screwed (facepalm).

My Dell Latitude E7470 got like a 6th gen i5 and earlier this year Dell upgraded the TPM module via firmware to be 2.0 which was nice but again maybe "The Verge" as @londiste says has misunderstood something because they are famous for even their bad computer building video :roll:
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#30
lexluthermiester
puma99dk|Lol so if Microsoft "choose" not to open up for 6 and 7gen Intel CPU's some of us will be screwed (facepalm).
No, you'l just have to use the work-arounds, and there will be many, to install Windows 11.
iORejoice, ransomware is upon you.
Total rubbish comment. I literally NEVER use automatic updates. Ever. Have never been a victim of ransomware. Ever. Please stop with the fearmongering.
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#31
micropage7
why i feel like M$ has right to tell you what spec you need to have to run their OS, for the next OS they gonna state you need to have mid range processor with 16GB RAM, 4TB storage as minimum or you can't install the new OS
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#32
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
micropage7why i feel like M$ has right to tell you what spec you need to have to run their OS, for the next OS they gonna state you need to have mid range processor with 16GB RAM, 4TB storage as minimum or you can't install the new OS
I need a "laughs in POSIX" meme. I'll stick with OS X and Linux as I see very little in W11 that would entice me to come back. The only reason would be for games and Wine/Proton support gets better with every update. I'm actually not sure what would need to happen to convince me to go back beyond being forced to become a .NET engineer.
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#33
LutinChris
TheDeeGeeWin 7 for web?

What are you browsing for? Ransomware?
Another fearmongering. I have never been a victim of a ransomware attack on Win 7. Also, I prefer to use Win 7 on my Kaby Lake system instead of Win 10 and its messy updates.
It's simple: I will never let software companies force me to use my hardware or purchase a new one at their discretion just because they need more money.
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#34
Vya Domus
Let's say that the whole TPM business is understandable because security, whatever. However, I still can't quite comprehend their claims about unsupported CPUs and crashes, some of the compatible CPU have identical architectures with some of those that aren't. Yet they say those that aren't supported crash a whopping 40% more (whatever that even means), how is that possible ? I can't even remember the last time I came across a piece of software that crashed depending on the CPU used. What can even cause that, they share the same ISA and feature sets. I can guarantee you that you can compile software with the most ill advised flags and it will still run just fine on 99.9% CPUs.

So the question is what are they really aiming to achieve with these bizarre and outright idiotic claims ?
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#35
windwhirl
lemoncarbonateI already totally lost my interest in W11 since I watched LTT's video about the UI and user experience. One major step backward is the "show more options" menu in almost every right click menu which shows the old W10 right click menu such as zipping or extracting. I don't appreciate extra unnecessary mouse movement for such a simple task.
Yeah, that sucks. As a workaround you can use the context menu key on your keyboard to bring out the old menu straight away, without going through "show more options", but if you're used to relying more on the mouse it goes against old habits.
lemoncarbonateAnd it's unacceptable how Microsoft is forcing its paying users to use Edge. Changing the default browser looks more difficult and time consuming more than ever with W11.
Yep, this sucks too.
Hyderzlike asus just released z270 boards with support 6th and 7th gen cpu and enable tpm 2.0, these machine qualify for updates?
Hyderzbut microsoft websites only states 8th gen and upwards support windows updates from what i can understand
Only Kaby Lake, Zen 2 and newer processors support Mode Based Execution Control. For all the other supported processors that do not have this feature, Windows 11 will emulate it, but diminished performance is to be expected. Hence why Microsoft is severely limiting the number of CPUs supported.
TheOneI have to wonder if there will be a simple bypass for this.
Probably. I imagine someone is working on one as we speak.
ZoneDymoI find it odd that governments are not up in arms over this because technically the big restrains on system requirements, of otherwise perfectly fine components, that are fast enough to last another decade, will now be E-waste.
Ironically, most of these new requirements were brought up with the US Department of Defense's requirements in mind.
Prima.VeraSeriously, I know is too early to ask, but what will Win11 bring over Win10 that is such a big deal?
Hardly anything, aside from the UI changes. The exact same security features can be enabled on Windows 10 if you have supported hardware for it. So really, a lot of people in an uproar over nothing.
lexluthermiesterIn all seriousness, this is just more motivation to run Windows 11 on a non-compliant system!
As said above, Windows 11 will rely on Mode Based Execution Control. For all the other supported processors that do not have this feature, Windows 11 will emulate it, but diminished performance is to be expected. Then again, if you know what you're doing, I doubt it's gonna be a problem.
lexluthermiesterNow this might be tricky from an ethical and legal perspective.
Doubt that in the legal perspective. Microsoft states a series of requirements, and you accept an EULA that you will use the software according to whatever that EULA states. I think you're bound to lose your case, when Windows 10 is still around and there's nothing exclusive to Windows 11 that can't be run on W10.
iORejoice, ransomware is upon you.
Bs, good security practices when using the Internet make it a nearly non-issue.
micropage7why i feel like M$ has right to tell you what spec you need to have to run their OS, for the next OS they gonna state you need to have mid range processor with 16GB RAM, 4TB storage as minimum or you can't install the new OS
And who designed the OS? Pretty sure it was Microsoft. So obviously they will state requirements for it to run correctly. Aside from the processor controversy, everything else is pretty normal.
Of course, if you want to run it on a potato, do so. Don't complain about potato performance later, though.
Vya DomusHowever, I still can't quite comprehend their claims about unsupported CPUs and crashes, some of the compatible CPU have identical architectures with some of those that aren't
Not sure about DIY land, because it's DIY land. But on OEM land, maybe they have pushed them into a tighter compliance with some specification?
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#36
lexluthermiester
Vya DomusSo the question is what are they really aiming to achieve with these bizarre and outright idiotic claims ?
One of the main reasons? It's a blatant money grab. Picture in your minds eye, if you will, that everyone obeys these requirements. This means that a very large portion of the populace will need to upgrade their hardware to get Windows 11 and escape the poopoo-show of Windows 10. Most people buy a prebuilt OEM system(such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, ETC). The result of THAT dynamic is that microsoft will sell OEM copies of Windows 11 in mass quantities. This will generate 10's of billions over the next 18months. And because the over-all vibes about Windows 11 are very positive(except for these limitations), this scenario is likely to play itself out to a significant degree. There you go.

They claim it's for "security" reasons, but that is a smoke-screen. TPM and SecureBoot do little for overall system security, so little that the hacker's of the world are likely laughing their collective asses off at microsoft.
windwhirlAs said above, Windows 11 will rely on Mode Based Execution Control. For all the other supported processors that do not have this feature, Windows 11 will emulate it, but diminished performance is to be expected. Then again, if you know what you're doing, I doubt it's gonna be a problem.
Nope! The Core 2 Duo system I've been testing with benchmarks within a reasonable margin of error when compared to Windows 7. So, no, microsoft is either blatantly lying(wouldn't THAT be a shocker) or the feature set that you're referencing has yet to be implemented as of 22k.160. I've not had a chance to test 22k.168 yet, been busy.
windwhirlDoubt that in the legal perspective.
Oh let's not start that...
windwhirlMicrosoft states a series of requirements, and you accept an EULA that you will use the software according to whatever that EULA states.
Once again, what an EULA states and what is lawfully enforceable are different.
windwhirlI think you're bound to lose your case
LOL! Haven't lost one yet.
windwhirlthere's nothing exclusive to Windows 11 that can't be run on W10.
We'll see...
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#37
Vya Domus
lexluthermiesterOne of the main reasons? It's a blatant money grab. Picture in your minds eye, if you will, that everyone obeys these requirements. This means that a very large portion of the populace will need to upgrade their hardware to get Windows 11 and escape the poopoo-show of Windows 10. Most people buy a prebuilt OEM system(such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, ETC). The result of THAT dynamic is that microsoft will sell OEM copies of Windows 11 in mass quantities. This will generate 10's of billions over the next 18months. And because the over-all vibes about Windows 11 are very positive(except for these limitations), this scenario is likely to play itself out to a significant degree. There you go.
Microsoft makes money from selling OEM copies of their OS anyway, what difference does this make ? And even if this was true this still doesn't explain the idiotic line they draw on the supported hardware, why not just say that you need the absolute newest hardware from the get go if that's your goal ?
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#38
TheinsanegamerN
Vya DomusMicrosoft makes money from selling OEM copies of their OS anyway, what difference does this make ? And even if this was true this still doesn't explain the idiotic line they draw on the supported hardware, why not just say that you need the absolute newest hardware from the get go if that's your goal ?
What difference? Car makers sell cars no matter what, but the introduction of a facelift causes a huge surge of sales. This applies to literally any product on the market. The new shiny makes $$$$. MS screwed up on giving away 10 too easily.

The hardware is apparently determined by the execution mode (which, as other posters have noted, doesnt appear to cause any notable performance drop). If they went with only 10th gen and newer it would cause more uproar over why hardware currently sold (you can still buy 8th gen hardware brand new from dell/HP/ece) doesnt support 11.
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#39
Operandi
watzupkenFor me, I am already using Edge as my default browser, so not much of an issue if I had to make a jump. But for me, there is little reason to make the jump. There are some new and useful features on W11, but not compelling for me to upgrade. In addition, I am more worried about MS messing up Windows updates as they always do. So while the UI has improved, it is mostly cosmetic changes.
Edge is a good browser but the point is they are making it hard(er) to use the browser you want, thats not ok.
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#40
lexluthermiester
Vya DomusMicrosoft makes money from selling OEM copies of their OS anyway, what difference does this make ?
You're missing the point, while the PC market is generally on the up from the pandemic-effect, PC sales are still not where many want them to be. This push will motivate a great deal of new sales that otherwise would not happen.
Vya DomusAnd even if this was true this still doesn't explain the idiotic line they draw on the supported hardware
Agreed, it's idiotic.
Vya Domuswhy not just say that you need the absolute newest hardware from the get go if that's your goal ?
Because as unbelievable as it is to us tech-geek types, the general public is gullible enough to accept that new tech is required for new levels of security. WE know this is total nonsense. But the average user doesn't. However, if they were to claim that only the newest generation of hardware will work, that would set off everyone's bull-shit-o-meters.
OperandiEdge is a good browser
That's an opinion.
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#41
Operandi
TheDeeGeeWhen i saw that i had a "but why?" moment.

I use the right click menu often for archiving and what not.
I can see this as being useful. It can be pretty easy to overload the context menu with a bunch of clutter that is sometimes used but not often so it would be kinda nice to have the ability to have a 2nd tier.
ZoneDymoI find it odd that governments are not up in arms over this because technically the big restrains on system requirements, of otherwise perfectly fine components, that are fast enough to last another decade, will now be E-waste.

I am kinda the IT of my family, as Im sure we all are, my mother still uses my old PC which is a Q9550 based system, and guess what? its perfectly fine for what she does on the PC (browsing the news, some youtube vids, MS Teams, word processing) but she won't be able to hold on to that if we need to jump to windows 11.
And I cant even give her my current PC as that as well (2600k based) is too old to meet the requirements for windows 11.

So yeah sure we can stay on Windows 10 but to throw away perfectly fine hardware for the task....just because the new OS just says no....is rather crazy.
Governments and large corporations are pissed about it because as it stands now MS is forcing them to use MS encryption rather than their own, at least thats how I understand it. I imagine MS will have to walk this back too.
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#42
lexluthermiester
OperandiGovernments and large corporations are pissed about it because as it stands now MS is forcing them to use MS encryption rather than their own, at least thats how I understand it.
That is exactly correct. I have a government job and trust me, we're pissed as we do not and will not be using microsofts insecure security. You can bet money on the fact that governments and corps are going to tell microsoft to take a long walk off a short pier. It's already started.
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#43
Operandi
Hardware GeekNo automatic updates for systems that don't meet their system requirements doesn't bother me as long as I can update manually. Then I can wait and see of the updates cause problems for others before updating!
Will you be able to install the updates manually on unsupported platforms? I already disable automatic updates on all my W10 machines and install them quarterly or whenever I'm doing other updates that need a system reboot so I think this options is fine for 'enthusiasts' if thats how its going to work.
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#44
Bomby569
This is such a shitty move, if people want to take the risk of not using TPM that's their problem, make a disclaimer and move on. Why force it on people.

The problem is they have a virtual monopoly and think they can get away with anything.
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#45
iO
lexluthermiesterTotal rubbish comment. I literally NEVER use automatic updates. Ever. Have never been a victim of ransomware. Ever. Please stop with the fearmongering.
"It never affected me, so it isn't real"
windwhirlBs, good security practices when using the Internet make it a nearly non-issue.
Yeah, but the problem is that the majority of users don't know of those practices or simply choose to ignore them. There is a reason why MS introduced the forced updates in the first place
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#46
Darmok N Jalad
ZoneDymoI find it odd that governments are not up in arms over this because technically the big restrains on system requirements, of otherwise perfectly fine components, that are fast enough to last another decade, will now be E-waste.

I am kinda the IT of my family, as Im sure we all are, my mother still uses my old PC which is a Q9550 based system, and guess what? its perfectly fine for what she does on the PC (browsing the news, some youtube vids, MS Teams, word processing) but she won't be able to hold on to that if we need to jump to windows 11.
And I cant even give her my current PC as that as well (2600k based) is too old to meet the requirements for windows 11.

So yeah sure we can stay on Windows 10 but to throw away perfectly fine hardware for the task....just because the new OS just says no....is rather crazy.
More and more old machines will just have to run Linux. Fortunately, Linux just keeps getting easier to install and use, and these days a good web browser is all most people in your example above really need. You can even run Teams in Linux, so that might be the easiest migration you can do for your mom. Install a LTS build, turn on updates and see how it goes. Probably way less likely to accidentally install a garbage app from a spam ad, too.
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#47
Bomby569
iOYeah, but the problem is that the majority of users don't know of those practices or simply choose to ignore them. There is a reason why MS introduced the forced updates in the first place
But the users should be the ones assuming the risk or not. And not be imposed by MS, that makes no sense.

And you speak like the TPM will make all PC's safe, that's absurd. People will still use shitty websites and apps, and there will always be other threats
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#48
TheinsanegamerN
Bomby569This is such a shitty move, if people want to take the risk of not using TPM that's their problem, make a disclaimer and move on. Why force it on people.

The problem is they have a virtual monopoly and think they can get away with anything.
The concept of personal responsibility has by and large been replaced with group responsibility for an individual's problems. See not only computer security but everything else going on around us today. People have gotten used to being nannied. Those in charge think that they need to make the decisions for the plebs, and many plebs not only support the idea but outright demand they be told what to do by either government or corporations "for their own good" instead of taking charge of their own lives, as if those with power exist to support and benefit the average joe instead of it being the other way around, because making decisions and being responsible is HARD.

People are just plain terrified of using linux for the same reason.
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#49
Razrback16
HIGHLANDER58For Microsoft to say that users with unsupported hardware will be banned from receiving their bug filled, system breaking updates is among the best news I have heard in a long time. I just hope they finally mean that and leave us with with still fairly powerful computers the hell alone. I have an older Asus Rampage 5 extreme motherboard and the Intel core I7 5960X happily humming along at 5.00GHZ on Windows 10 pro Enterprise and and never any issues until Micro crap does its forcing bug filled updates on us and then almost every single time, it means spending the entire night reprogramming it. I have done the work around and tried running Windows 11 and it really is not much more than core Windows 10 files with a theme pack cramped on top of it, but now filled with even more bugs and even more forced updates. I would love to have Micro craps promise to ban me permanently in writing since they generally go back on their word. As far as their so called security and driver updates, Micro crap is living in a fantasy if it thinks there are not considerably better after market alternatives that actually work and not break hardware almost every time.
Yep. I'm running a 6950X and will continue to run Win10 as long as possible - if they want to make it so Windows Update doesn't annoy me, even better. I take my time in moving forward with both hardware and software, never in a hurry, just happy to wait for software to mature.

Quick side question on Win11 since I haven't followed it too deeply - is it forcing Bitlocker enabled or can we still opt out of drive encryption?
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#50
BArms
Microsoft Windows Government Backdoor edition. Nobody is asking for these TPM 2.0 modules and they will hurt W11 adoption massively, the only safe assumption is that someone is putting the pressure on MS to require them.
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