Monday, August 30th 2021

Microsoft to Ban Unsupported Machines from Windows 11 Updates

With pre-release builds of Microsoft's upcoming operating system, Windows 11, doing rounds, the PC enthusiast community has developed various workarounds to the system requirement of a hardware trusted-platform module 2.0 (TPM 2.0) for the operating system. Microsoft itself also suggested that those on older machines (without TPMs), who cannot upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11, have the option of performing a clean-installation of the new operating system using its ISO installer disk image.

These machines, however, will be treated as "unsupported," will not have access to Windows Update, and may potentially be barred from receiving important security updates. Microsoft recommends, however, that those who don't meet the system requirements of Windows 11 remain on Windows 10. The company plans to maintain support for Windows 10 up to October 14, 2025, which means four more years of security updates for the older operating system. The choice, hence, would be between upgrading hardware to meet Windows 11 requirements, or to remain on Windows 10 until Q4-2025.
Source: HotHardware
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117 Comments on Microsoft to Ban Unsupported Machines from Windows 11 Updates

#51
ThrashZone
Hi,
I ban win-11 just for gpt & uefi install requirements
I do the opposite on purpose so crapware like bitlocker can never be activated even on accident.
Posted on Reply
#52
lexluthermiester
Bomby569if people want to take the risk of not using TPM that's their problem,
What bloody risk? People rarely use it now and the ones that do only use it to prevent unauthorized access, which is defeatable if you know what you're doing. It does nothing for virii or malware. Seriously, go look into it.
Bomby569Why force it on people.
Agreed.
TheinsanegamerNThe concept of personal responsibility has by and large been replaced with group responsibility for an individual's problems.
A truly daft concept for certain.
iO"It never affected me, so it isn't real"
Oh, please. Save that nonsense for someone else..
Posted on Reply
#53
rvalencia
MysteoaMicrosoft doesn't care what MB you are running and if it supports tpm 2.0 or not. They just care what CPU you have for their "stability" to be as desired. According to them, the approved CPU list have 99.8% stability, but not approved CPU have 50% more crashes. So non approved CPU are 99.7% stable which is not enough for MS.
Microsoft supports Intel Core i7 7820HQ "Kaby Lake" mobile CPU for Windows 11 while not supporting other Intel Kaby Lake CPU SKUs.

Intel Core i7 7820HQ "Kaby Lake" mobile CPU was released in Q1 2017 and happens to be in the Surface Studio 2 that Microsoft currently sells.

Ryzen 5 Pro 2500U (14 nm Zen v1 APU) was released on May 15, 2018 and it's not on the updated supported CPU list.

Ryzen 3 3250U (14 nm Zen v1 APU) was released on January 6, 2020 and it's on the updated supported CPU list. www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-3-3250u

Windows 11's support CPU list is bullsh*t.

@Microsoft, there's SteamOS 3.0 alternative.
Posted on Reply
#54
TheinsanegamerN
lexluthermiesterWhat bloody risk? People rarely use it now and the ones that do only use it to prevent unauthorized access, which is defeatable if you know what you're doing. It does nothing for virii or malware. Seriously, go look into it.
I believe he means in terms of "MS says it poses a risk if you use Win11 without TPM" that he is OK with that "risk", not that TPM 2.0 not being present is actually some kind of risk.
Posted on Reply
#55
ThrashZone
iORejoice, ransomware is upon you.
Hi,
Seen more cases of ransonware hitting regular people using just windows defender rather than third party security.
Microsoft posted the decryption key lol
Posted on Reply
#56
lexluthermiester
rvalenciaWindows 11's support CPU list is bullsh*t.
It really is!
TheinsanegamerNI believe he means in terms of "MS says it poses a risk if you use Win11 without TPM" that he is OK with that "risk", not that TPM 2.0 not being present is actually some kind of risk.
Ah ok. Then yeah, agreed. The wording he chose gave the opposite idea.

It seems there is a metric ton of misunderstanding about what TPM & SecureBoot do and my guess is that microsoft is counting on that for a fear-factor thing, which is nothing less than deceitful and slimy.
Posted on Reply
#57
Wirko
Prima.VeraSeriously, I know is too early to ask, but what will Win11 bring over Win10 that is such a big deal?
The great big little scheduler that absolutely can't be backported to Windows 10 because it's so great.
Posted on Reply
#58
zlobby
Hmm, I wonder if my HP AMD laptops that cover Win 10's enchanced security critera will be eligible for Win 11, when they are 1st generation of Zen?
Posted on Reply
#59
Darmok N Jalad
TheinsanegamerNThe concept of personal responsibility has by and large been replaced with group responsibility for an individual's problems. See not only computer security but everything else going on around us today. People have gotten used to being nannied. Those in charge think that they need to make the decisions for the plebs, and many plebs not only support the idea but outright demand they be told what to do by either government or corporations "for their own good" instead of taking charge of their own lives, as if those with power exist to support and benefit the average joe instead of it being the other way around, because making decisions and being responsible is HARD.

People are just plain terrified of using linux for the same reason.
I really do feel like we're being pushed into making some hard choices, though it may be too late since so many will just take getting pushed around. The lure of letting others do it often takes the form of more convenience or the promise of an easy life. Ultimately, you probably end up giving up more than choice as a consequence. Support you don't like, changes and updates you didn't ask for, and even treating customers as guilty until proven innocent. No thanks.
Posted on Reply
#60
etayorius
I will stick to Win10 for at least the next 5 years. It's not like 10 will just magically stop working.
Posted on Reply
#61
trsttte
lemoncarbonateAnd it's unacceptable how Microsoft is forcing its paying users to use Edge. Changing the default browser looks more difficult and time consuming more than ever with W11.
I realize I'm in the minority but I love this change. Yes, let me control which app opens which extension easily. Browser installers already take care of setting themselves as default browser with one click anyway, I don't think it will be a problem for anyone.
windwhirlYeah, that sucks. As a workaround you can use the context menu key on your keyboard to bring out the old menu straight away, without going through "show more options", but if you're used to relying more on the mouse it goes against old habits.
I'm sure, like with the taskbar, software to correct this is either on it's way or already available (maybe a reg key tweak is all it's necessary)
lexluthermiesterThat is exactly correct. I have a government job and trust me, we're pissed as we do not and will not be using microsofts insecure security. You can bet money on the fact that governments and corps are going to tell microsoft to take a long walk off a short pier. It's already started.
You'll have 5 years to continue using windows 10, but in the end what's more expensive, upgrade the computers or pay the extended support fees like with windows 7?
Razrback16Yep. I'm running a 6950X and will continue to run Win10 as long as possible - if they want to make it so Windows Update doesn't annoy me, even better. I take my time in moving forward with both hardware and software, never in a hurry, just happy to wait for software to mature.
Yeah, I don't know who they think they're discouraging with this, "forced" updates was the worst thing they did, most people will be glad that's done with (even if indirectly)
Posted on Reply
#62
The red spirit
I just don't understand them anymore. At first they were adding requirements, then they sort of backed down and became somewhat receptive of people's complaints and now they are "fuck it we are going to be dicks just for lulz".
Posted on Reply
#63
zlobby
rvalenciaMicrosoft supports Intel Core 7820HQ "Kaby Lake" mobile CPU for Windows 11 while not supporting other Intel Kaby Lake CPU SKUs.

Intel Core 7820HQ "Kaby Lake" mobile CPU was released in Q1 2017 and happens to be in the Surface Studio 2 that Microsoft currently sells.

Ryzen 5 Pro 2500U (14 nm Zen v1 APU) was released on May 15, 2018 and it's not on the updated supported CPU list.

Ryzen 3 3250U (14 nm Zen v1 APU) was released on January 6, 2020 and it's on the updated supported CPU list. www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-3-3250u

Windows 11's support CPU list is bullsh*t.

@Microsoft, there's SteamOS 3.0 alternative.
Makes one wonder how ready and polished Win 11 is. If Microsoft's track record is to be followed closely, we're in for another grand disaster. And I think evidence for that is strong.
Most likely Win 11 will take 12-18 more months after launch in order to become production-ready.
The red spiritI just don't understand them anymore. At first they were adding requirements, then they sort of backed down and became somewhat receptive of people's complaints and now they are "fuck it we are going to be dicks just for lulz".
Classic Microsoft. And the price tag they put on this? Man...
Posted on Reply
#64
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
That's a nasty little trick by Microsoft, as those updates are critical over time. :nutkick:

I guess one can install it for shits and giggles on unqualified hardware just to see how it runs and to get a feel for it. I'll bet my ancient 2700K with 16GB RAM that I'm using to write this post will run it just fine. Seriously, if it wasn't for games performance on the latest games being a bit below par for the highest frame rates and the lack of certain features like m.2 drives, my rig feels as fast and current as the day I put it together and that's saying something. That top end CPU was a really good investment.
Posted on Reply
#65
Darmok N Jalad
etayoriusI will stick to Win10 for at least the next 5 years. It's not like 10 will just magically stop working.
But do we actually know how well it will run in 5 years? When 10 rolled out, people clung to Windows 7, and even still do today. Did MS learn a thing or two on forced migration? Imagine in 5 years if Windows 11 adoption rate is really bad. Do they just keep WIndows 10 support going, or does it become upgrade nagware with reduced abilities? What future hardware will not work well on Windows 10? Perhaps these hybrid CPUs from Intel won’t work worth a darn because WIndows 11 is the only OS with a proper hybrid CPU scheduler (MS bent over backwards for Adler Lake support). It sounds to me like some planned obsolescence is going on, and that’s often made in the name of security. 2 monster companies working together to get people to upgrade, when most people don’t really need to upgrade at all.
Posted on Reply
#66
The red spirit
zlobbyClassic Microsoft. And the price tag they put on this? Man...
Price tag? I'm pretty sure that Win 11 is going to end on TPB with cracks or keygens soon. That probably was the main reason why Windows 10 was free. Anyway, that doesn't explain their behaviour at all. It's like they don't want to make money anymore and are actively making Windows 11 "exclusive" and not for poor plebs. I personally, cannot imagine ever upgrading perfectly functional and decently fast machine just for OS support. It makes no sense.
Posted on Reply
#67
R-T-B
TheinsanegamerNThe concept of personal responsibility has by and large been replaced with group responsibility for an individual's problems. See not only computer security but everything else going on around us today. People have gotten used to being nannied. Those in charge think that they need to make the decisions for the plebs, and many plebs not only support the idea but outright demand they be told what to do by either government or corporations "for their own good" instead of taking charge of their own lives, as if those with power exist to support and benefit the average joe instead of it being the other way around, because making decisions and being responsible is HARD.

People are just plain terrified of using linux for the same reason.
Funny. I missed that memo.
Posted on Reply
#68
trsttte
Darmok N JaladBut do we actually know how well it will run in 5 years? When 10 rolled out, people clung to Windows 7, and even still do today. Did MS learn a thing or two on forced migration? Imagine in 5 years if Windows 11 adoption rate is really bad. Do they just keep WIndows 10 support going, or does it become upgrade nagware with reduced abilities? What future hardware will not work well on Windows 10? Perhaps these hybrid CPUs from Intel won’t work worth a darn because WIndows 11 is the only OS with a proper hybrid CPU scheduler (MS bent over backwards for Adler Lake support). It sounds to me like some planned obsolescence is going on, and that’s often made in the name of security. 2 monster companies working together to get people to upgrade, when most people don’t really need to upgrade at all.
I mean, it get's to a point where it's understandable that they want to drop support eventually, no one likes to work for free (I'm talking software support, not HW). What happened with windows 7 was extended support for a price, a steep price might I add. Windows 10 is likely to have something similar happening in 2025 - that's roughly 10 years so naturally they want to sell new licenses.

As for HW, I don't exactly understand what the numbers are for them to be going out of their way to limit support the way they are, I mean they get a kickback per device sold on the oem licenses but does all this confusion and bad pr make it worth it? New computers will keep being bought either way
Posted on Reply
#69
Darmok N Jalad
trsttteI mean, it get's to a point where it's understandable that they want to drop support eventually, no one likes to work for free (I'm talking software support, not HW). What happened with windows 7 was extended support for a price, a steep price might I add. Windows 10 is likely to have something similar happening in 2025 - that's roughly 10 years so naturally they want to sell new licenses.

As for HW, I don't exactly understand what the numbers are for them to be going out of their way to limit support the way they are, I mean they get a kickback per device sold on the oem licenses but does all this confusion and bad pr make it worth it? New computers will keep being bought either way
I think MS and Intel are using the classic formula of “new hardware needs new software.” With the efficiency of modern PCs, especially on light tasks, we see Intel pull a hybrid-CPU-for-everybody design out that raises core counts significantly—one that requires a big scheduler update for Windows. What gain will the consumer see? Hard to tell, but I don’t think most users are pining away for such a design. If current sales are any indication, even a 4-times recycled Kabylake design is sufficient for most people. It takes me back to Bulldozer, where a unique design was attempted, only to fail hard, partially because the scheduler didn’t know what to do. Not this time, Intel and MS worked together, and now 10 is no longer the “last version of Windows.”

I’m all for additional performance, but Adler Lake feels like a marketing move. I suspect we’ll see 10-core i3s for sale that will have 8 efficiency cores and 2 performance cores. It will probably perform better than the outgoing i3, but more importantly, it will have a critical one-up bullet point on the chassis sticker. After all, AMD can’t offer 10 cores for this price.
Posted on Reply
#70
trsttte
Darmok N JaladI’m all for additional performance, but Adler Lake feels like a marketing move. I suspect we’ll see 10-core i3s for sale that will have 8 efficiency cores and 2 performance cores. It will probably perform better than the outgoing i3, but more importantly, it will have a critical one-up bullet point on the chassis sticker. After all, AMD can’t offer 10 cores for this price.
The thing is, they kind of can, they must be getting very good margins with the current chiplet design selling the same cpu die across the stack. And can't you still port your license anyway if you upgrade to alder lake? You might have to jump a couple of hoops because of the major hw changes but the free upgrade is still a thing, and with microsoft accounts it should be very easy
Posted on Reply
#71
Darmok N Jalad
trsttteThe thing is, they kind of can, they must be getting very good margins with the current chiplet design selling the same cpu die across the stack. And can't you still port your license anyway if you upgrade to alder lake? You might have to jump a couple of hoops because of the major hw changes but the free upgrade is still a thing, and with microsoft accounts it should be very easy
Yeah, but the number of people who will do that has got to be a pretty small percent of Windows users. Also, depending on your license type, you might not technically be allowed to upgrade your PC without a new license. Windows 10 never really enforced those rules, but now we have some artificial hardware limits in place for Windows 11. Seems like MS is less concerned with you updating your existing machine from Windows 10, but rather they seem to be encouraging people to buy a new machine instead. I almost wonder if Intel and MS have a partnership in this endeavor.
Posted on Reply
#72
windwhirl
Razrback16Quick side question on Win11 since I haven't followed it too deeply - is it forcing Bitlocker enabled or can we still opt out of drive encryption?
You can choose to enable Bitlocker or not, you're not forced to use it.
BArmsMicrosoft Windows Government Backdoor edition. Nobody is asking for these TPM 2.0 modules and they will hurt W11 adoption massively, the only safe assumption is that someone is putting the pressure on MS to require them.
I mean, if you want a justification for your tinfoil hat, the requirements are partially based on US DoD requirements for their own systems.
ThrashZoneI do the opposite on purpose so crapware like bitlocker can never be activated even on accident.
... I legit wonder how do you enable bitlocker by accident.
lexluthermiesterWhat bloody risk? People rarely use it now and the ones that do only use it to prevent unauthorized access, which is defeatable if you know what you're doing. It does nothing for virii or malware. Seriously, go look into it.
Agreed. TPM can help enhance security under certain situations, but by itself it doesn't do shit for most users, because they're not gonna apply a complex security scheme on a home computer (because that's just madness when you don't have a good reason to justify it). Basic security practices are the first and perhaps most important layer of defense against malware.
rvalenciaRyzen 3 3250U (14 nm Zen v1 APU) was released on January 6, 2020 and it's on the updated supported CPU list.
That's Zen+, not original Zen, though.
rvalenciaWindows 11's support CPU list is bullsh*t.
It's inconsistent, agreed.
trsttteBrowser installers already take care of setting themselves as default browser with one click anyway, I don't think it will be a problem for anyone.
That era ended. Since Windows 10 you have to use the system settings to change associations. The apps can no longer make the changes themselves.
The red spiritI'm pretty sure that Win 11 is going to end on TPB with cracks or keygens soon
... I think W10 1803 era cracks still work. I've seen them around.
The red spiritThat probably was the main reason why Windows 10 was free.
Half-truth. The upgrade from 7/8 was free. A license for a new machine with no previous Windows was not free.
Posted on Reply
#73
The red spirit
windwhirl... I think W10 1803 era cracks still work. I've seen them around.
You can probably still get away with that infinite trial command.
windwhirlHalf-truth. The upgrade from 7/8 was free. A license for a new machine with no previous Windows was not free.
Sure it wasn't entirely free, did people really pay for it? Cracked Windows 7 and Windows 8 machine got free upgrade to legit copy, some people bought keys from grey market, plenty of people got it with new computer for "free". Unlike ever before, Windows 10 was pretty much treated as free or very cheap OS. Actually buying full legit copy of Windows surely became a rarity, not a norm. I'm pretty sure that many people now expect Windows to be cheap or free, else there will be a backlash.
Posted on Reply
#74
Prima.Vera
WirkoThe great big little scheduler that absolutely can't be backported to Windows 10 because it's so great.
You mean the new Intel/AMD CPUs won't work at 100% on the Win10??
Seriously I refuse to believe this. Surely there going to be some windows update to enable the full functionality for those. That would be to callous by M$.
Isn't it??
Posted on Reply
#75
rvalencia
windwhirlThat's Zen+, not original Zen, though.
Not correct,

Read AMD's web link for Ryzen 3 3250U www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-3-3250u


Zen = 14 nm
Zen+ = 12 nm

Ryzen 3 3250U is Zen 1 APU. Zen 1 APU has a single CCX module which is different from dual CCX modules (2 cores +2 cores) Ryzen 3 Zen 1 desktops.

AMD treating APUs like Radeon rename PR BS.

From docs.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

Ryzen 3 3200U and Ryzen 3 3250U are 14 nm Zen APUs and these SKUs are supported in Windows 11's AMD CPU support list. :laugh:
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