Tuesday, October 12th 2021

First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

Microsoft on October 12 put out the first Cumulative Updates for the new Windows 11 operating system, since its October 5 release. The company's monthly update packages for Windows are unofficially dubbed "patch Tuesday" updates, as they're scheduled to come out on the second Tuesday of each month. Shortly after Windows 11 launch, AMD and Microsoft jointly discovered that Windows 11 is poorly optimized for AMD Ryzen processors, which see significantly increased L3 cache latency, and the UEFI-CPPC2 (preferred cores mechanism) rendered not working. In our own testing, a Ryzen 7 2700X "Pinnacle Ridge" processor, which typically posts an L3 cache latency of 10 ns, was tested to show a latency of 17 ns. This was made much worse with the October 12 "patch Tuesday" update, driving up the latency to 31.9 ns.

AMD put out a statement on social media, which surfaced on Reddit. The company stated that patches for the two issues have been developed, and specified dates on which they'll be released. The patch for the Preferred Cores (UEFI-CPPC2) bug will be released on October 21. Customers can request the patch even earlier. By "customers," AMD is probably referring to big enterprise customers running mission-critical applications on Threadripper or EPYC-powered workstations. The L3 cache latency bug will be fixed through the Windows Update channel, its release is scheduled for October 19.
If rumors surrounding the late-October/early-November launch dates of 12th Gen Intel Core "Alder Lake" processors are true, then the situation with these patches will have a direct impact on AMD. Processor reviewers will be compelled to use Windows 11 for their Core "Alder Lake" testing, as the new operating system supposedly has greater awareness of the heterogeneous core design. The switch to Windows 11 will force a re-bench of all processors, including the AMD Ryzen chips. With AMD cautioning of an up to 15% performance hit from the added cache latency and Preferred Cores bugs, results of AMD processors in 12th Gen Core launch reviews could be affected. It is advisable for AMD to reach out to the press with these patches immediately, if they are ready.
Source: destiny2sk (Reddit)
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149 Comments on First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

#51
billeman
lexluthermiesterOh, please. Can we have done with this kind of fanboy nonsense already?


Exactly! Especially considering that microsoft is a HUGE AMD customer with the XBox using AMD SOC's exclusively!
Yeah I don't follow the conspiracy theory either, not on Microsoft's side anyway. Intel, not so sure :)

But the major responsability has to lie with Microsoft anyway since it's their product and these AMD cpu's are not exactly new.
Posted on Reply
#52
neatfeatguy
I'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?
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#53
HD64G
neatfeatguyI'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?
Who is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...
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#54
DeathtoGnomes
lexluthermiesterOh, please. Can we have done with this kind of fanboy nonsense already?


Exactly! Especially considering that microsoft is a HUGE AMD customer with the XBox using AMD SOC's exclusively!
Come on! put your tinhat on and have some fun with it! Just because m$ was caught being incompetent doesnt mean its 'state' sponsored. Or does it?:kookoo:
Posted on Reply
#55
bug
HD64GWho is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...
Whether you realize it or not, AMD also had access to Win11 development builds. If they're not crying foul, are you sure you should?
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#56
Makaveli
emigrantSo on my side (6th October) Windows 11 :


13th October Windows 11:


And just for compare Window 10 (about June 2021):
Your memory latency also went up and is very high for a Zen 3 chip at 1800 Bus speed.

70 ns is in Zen 2 range
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#57
HD64G
bugWhether you realize it or not, AMD also had access to Win11 development builds. If they're not crying foul, are you sure you should?
Don't be hasty. Let's see what happens with the AL reviews and we will discuss again about that.
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#58
bug
HD64GWho is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...
HD64GDon't be hasty. Let's see what happens with the AL reviews and we will discuss again about that.
Who's hasty?
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#59
HD64G
bugWho's hasty?
You are the one who needs to see AMD and MS quarreling publicly even before the damage is done for AMD. In AMD's shoes would you open a public war on MS before the damage is proven or would try to correct them behind the scenes in order not to worsen or even brake you relationship? And believe me, I oversimplify muchly this situation by writing those thoughts about such a complicated condition.
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#60
phanbuey
neatfeatguyI'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?
Haha brutal but true.
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#61
bug
HD64GYou are the one who needs to see AMD and MS quarreling publicly even before the damage is done for AMD. In AMD's shoes would you open a public war on MS before the damage is proven or would try to correct them behind the scenes in order not to worsen or even brake you relationship? And believe me, I oversimplify muchly this situation by writing those thoughts about such a complicated condition.
Can you imagine there's stuff between saying nothing publicly for months (which is what AMD has done so far) and "open a public war"?

All I said is that if there was foul play (which you seem convinced it was), AMD had ample opportunity to raise a flag. Which they didn't.
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#62
thesmokingman
MusselsI'm always anti-conspiracy, but this ones really weird
patches that make it worse when the fix is already on the dev channel?
Right before windows 11 is required to review alder lake CPUs?


If it's not malicious, its massive incompetence.
It's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?
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#63
dicktracy
AMD should fix their own broken crap. Their tiny market share doesn’t warrant anyone to bend to them. See TSMC 3nm as an example hehehehehehe
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#64
DeathtoGnomes
thesmokingmanIt's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?
IDK about dumb coincidence, maybe Miraculous, or Imaginary. :D
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#65
bug
thesmokingmanIt's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?
Which timeline is that? This has been reported 6 months ago (see above). If you plan to do a dick move like this, you sneak it in at the very last moment and blame a rushed change.
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#66
Prima.Vera
Hopefully they will fix the language bar, which now floats anywhere except taskbar, where it supposed to dock, but it doesn't...
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#67
yotano211
So they need a patch to fix the patch.
wow..........
I'm staying with win10
Posted on Reply
#68
ThrashZone
CrackongWindows update break things again and even worse.....surprised ?
Hi,
Everyone rushes to install these updates cheering they installed on old hardware
I've yet to install them yet doubt I will seeing if updates mini tool works on 11 as well as it does on 10

Matter of fact I removed 11 and 10 off my m.2 and put both on separate sata 2.5" ssd's this morning so I'm ready for shit to hit the fan lol

11 screwed the permissions up on 1 small hdd I use for a few images for 10 & 11 I couldn't even see it under computer only on disk management and free minitool would show it but showed it as logical not primary
So yeah I couldn't even create a folder or delete an old image.
Posted on Reply
#69
R-T-B
FireFoxDid anyone force you to buy AMD?
No one is forcing you to use Windows 11 either.

This is pisspoor logic as most Ryzens are supposedly supported by MS.
lexluthermiesterThose two things are not related. Kernel level drivers are created for CPUs just like any other piece of hardware and the code is compiled for each as needed for the capability of each CPU family. These problems are very specific to the way Windows interacts with Ryzen CPU's. It is not related to anything Intel.
I'm not buying it. It's too coincidental that it's been fixed for months in the dev branch, but they can't bother to push the fix until after the Alder Lake launch.

I'm normally a critic of conspiracy theories but this one stinks... bad.

And if it's not that, it's massive incompetence that will still impact reviews for AMD on launch day of AL. It's not like incompetence with good intentions is much better if the end result is the same...
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#70
FireFox
The Power Of Intel
R-T-BNo one is forcing you to use Windows 11 either.
I don't get your point.
Isn't me complaining about W11, maybe i misunderstood your post?
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#71
zlobby
R-T-BI'm normally a critic of conspiracy theories but this one stinks... bad.
Mhm. It's tinfoil hat wackos until their theories start to have merit and a sound logic. This doesn't automatically make all conspiracy theories true, just saying sometimes it's useful to cast the prejudice aside and take an unbiased look deeper inside.
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#72
Bubster
Windows 11 was very fast in snappy upon rollout, i tried it on 1 of my 3 machines and it was fantastic until the early august update and then they fucked it up with some crappy update that ruined that fast and snappy experience. I thought the Microsoft of Ballmer is long gone. Alas
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#73
R-T-B
FireFoxI don't get your point.
Isn't me complaining about W11, maybe i misunderstood your post?
Maybe I misunderstood yours?

Ah no worries, who cares mate no harm done... lol.
Posted on Reply
#74
Why_Me
If you install a new OS when its first released then you deserve all the misery you get imo.
Posted on Reply
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