Monday, December 27th 2021

AMD Navi 24 GPU Powering RX 6500 XT Built on 6nm

AMD's first GPU built on the N6 (6 nm) silicon fabrication process isn't some big RX 7000 series behemoth, but the smallest chip from the Navi 2x GPU family, codenamed Navi 24. Based on the same RDNA2 graphics architecture as the rest of the RX 6000 series, the Navi 24 physically packs 1,024 stream processors across 16 compute units (8 WGPs), and on the RX 6500 XT, reportedly comes with 4 GB of memory across a 64-bit wide memory bus. The chip also packs a tiny 16 MB Infinity Cache. VideoCardz scored the first renders of the upcoming Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400, which are based on the Navi 24. The RX 6500 XT features a full-height, 2-slot board design that uses a simple aluminium monoblock fan-heatsink. The RX 6400, on the other hand, is not just low-profile (half-height), but also single-slot.

Update Dec 28th: Unless we're mistaken, the SMDs near the PCIe interface in those renders seem to suggest that the GPU features a PCIe x4 interface. This should offer sufficient bandwidth for a GPU in this segment, and should help lower the pin-count of the GPU, as well as board costs.
Source: VideoCardz
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94 Comments on AMD Navi 24 GPU Powering RX 6500 XT Built on 6nm

#76
Ellertis
mechtechlol oooops read that as ver4, instead of x4, which would make way more sense.

was a busy morning with the kids
Sooo... What is bad about pcie 4.0?
Posted on Reply
#77
MaenadFIN
S.T.A.R.S.
EllertisSooo... What is bad about pcie 4.0?
I suppose he mixed up the bandwith with memory bus and the PCIe interface.

Just as GT 1030 was a 64-bit card with a PCIe x4 card (tho it was ok with 2600K).
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#78
jaszy
GarrusKind of hilarious the Xbox Series S is a better investment for gaming than PC gaming now. The Series S will beat the RX 6500 XT. Sad.
Wait till Microsoft releases a full die refresh of the S and X.... Series S is technically a 1536 Shader/ 24 CU RDNA2 design (disabled down to 1280 Shader/20CU on production units...) Smack in between a 6600XT and 6500XT in raw hardware spec.

Full die (24CU) + 20/24GBPS memory can push the console over the edge for a solid "entry" experience.. Especially at the $299 price point.

If I'm not mistaken, we would end up at 320-384GB/S on 128bit bus.. Perfect for 1440p/120hz bandwidth.
Posted on Reply
#79
MaenadFIN
S.T.A.R.S.
jaszyWait till Microsoft releases a full die refresh of the S and X.... Series S is technically a 1536 Shader/ 24 CU RDNA2 design (disabled down to 1280 Shader/20CU on production units...) Smack in between a 6600XT and 6500XT in raw hardware spec.

Full die (24CU) + 20/24GBPS memory can push the console over the edge for a solid "entry" experience.. Especially at the $299 price point.

If I'm not mistaken, we would end up at 320-384GB/S on 128bit bus.. Perfect for 1440p/120hz bandwidth.
You mean like XboneS and X kinda of refreshs? I wouldn't mind, been thinking about Series S..
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#80
mechtech
MaenadI suppose he mixed up the bandwith with memory bus and the PCIe interface.

Just as GT 1030 was a 64-bit card with a PCIe x4 card (tho it was ok with 2600K).
Correct. Nothing wrong with PCIe Ver.4., or x4 interface on a card like that, that's all it needs. No point putting an x16 interface and PCIe ver.4 on a card like that. PCIe ver.3 @ 4x is probably enough bandwidth for a card like that.
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#81
MaenadFIN
S.T.A.R.S.
mechtechCorrect. Nothing wrong with PCIe Ver.4., or x4 interface on a card like that, that's all it needs. No point putting an x16 interface and PCIe ver.4 on a card like that. PCIe ver.3 @ 4x is probably enough bandwidth for a card like that.
Yeah, on specs-wise it's comparable to PCIe2.0 x8 so it should be more than enough for a card like that. :) 4GB should also be enough for these, the GPU/membus struggles before the amount of VRAM.
Posted on Reply
#82
ixi
bonehead123o.m.g.....

mucho...waste...of...time...resources...money....
It is 0 waste and only income for them. As these chips definetily are broken rx 6600 (unworthy).
Posted on Reply
#83
MaenadFIN
S.T.A.R.S.
ixiIt is 0 waste and only income for them. As these chips definetily are broken rx 6600 (unworthy).
Yeah and if they're defective but working as cut-down models, hell yeah it's wise to sell them as lower tier SKUs.
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#84
jaszy
MaenadYou mean like XboneS and X kinda of refreshs? I wouldn't mind, been thinking about Series S..
Yeah. The hardware of the Series X is also technically stronger.. (3584 Shader/56 CU disabled down to 3328/52CU) Not to mention it can use faster 20-24GBPS spec memory later on.

Samsung is currently sampling 20/24 GBPS native GDDR6 chips...Meaning 800-960 GB/S memory is possible with current 320bit design of the Series X... Granted that is pretty damn overkill on 320 bit.. (exceeding a 3090 hardware spec).. I guess they could argue 8k 30FPS as a feature.

They really have zero reason to do this in this market though. I'd imagine it's a plan B type move 2-3 years into the future.
Posted on Reply
#85
MaenadFIN
S.T.A.R.S.
jaszyYeah. The hardware of the Series X is also technically stronger.. (3584 Shader/56 CU disabled down to 3328/52CU) Not to mention it can use faster 20-24GBPS spec memory later on.

Samsung is currently sampling 20/24 GBPS native GDDR6 chips...Meaning 800-960 GB/S memory is possible with current 320bit design of the Series X... Granted that is pretty damn overkill on 320 bit.. (exceeding a 3090 hardware spec).. I guess they could argue 8k 30FPS as a feature.

They really have zero reason to do this in this market though. I'd imagine it's a plan B type move 2-3 years into the future.
Yeah.. Personally I have a 1080p TV and not going to upgrade soon so it would be fine for me.
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#86
Ellertis
ixiIt is 0 waste and only income for them. As these chips definetily are broken rx 6600 (unworthy).
They're not, 6600/xt are navi23, 6400 etc are navi24
Posted on Reply
#87
jaszy
EllertisThey're not, 6600/xt are navi23, 6400 etc are navi24
Thats true, but they could technically salvage really bad dies.

Most release 3060's are GA106, but there are GA104 models floating around.

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3060-ga104.c3832


But in terms of 6nm.. Yeah those are 1024 SP 16 CU full dies for navi 24. Half the size of navi 23s 2048 SP 32 CU design.
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#88
Garrus
jaszyWait till Microsoft releases a full die refresh of the S and X.... Series S is technically a 1536 Shader/ 24 CU RDNA2 design (disabled down to 1280 Shader/20CU on production units...) Smack in between a 6600XT and 6500XT in raw hardware spec.

Full die (24CU) + 20/24GBPS memory can push the console over the edge for a solid "entry" experience.. Especially at the $299 price point.

If I'm not mistaken, we would end up at 320-384GB/S on 128bit bus.. Perfect for 1440p/120hz bandwidth.
Honestly my interest in PC hardware has been dying as the price never stops increasing. If Microsoft wanted to release a new console every 2 years I'd prefer that. Just get the best hardware you can every 2 years into a device and add full mouse and keyboard support (windows s mode etc.) to the consoles.
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#89
TheinsanegamerN
DranzuleI'd argue Infinity Cache can make up for it. These are low-medium 1080p cards, not ultra 1080p ones. Considering that faulty dies are also a thing and that these are theoretically meant to succeed cards such as the 1050ti/1650 Super, they would be priced accordingly.
We know they won't though.
Putting a bigger exaust on a yugo is a better use of your time. With only 4GB of VRAM and a x4 PCIe interfact the 6400/6500 will likely age like milk. 16MB of L3 cache wont fix a GPU that gimped.
Posted on Reply
#90
jaszy
GarrusHonestly my interest in PC hardware has been dying as the price never stops increasing. If Microsoft wanted to release a new console every 2 years I'd prefer that. Just get the best hardware you can every 2 years into a device and add full mouse and keyboard support (windows s mode etc.) to the consoles.
Agree.

There's little reason to build a pure gaming machine anymore given both AMD and NVIDIA have pushed incremental improvement into 1k+ MSRP bracket (without factoring market price selling for double). Pre 2016, a $300-400 GPU would pretty much get you the top end offerings in terms of price/performance metric of the BEST offerings at the time. Hell.. even the GTX1080 a year later was selling for $399 on sale since it was worse than 1070 for mining purposes due to GDDR5X being generally worse.

When AMD couldn't compete, they were selling rather expensive compute hardware for only $500-600 USD on sale... lol.. It's just kind of insane to me..... Hell, Even with inflation, there's a clear "adjustment" of what the hardware is today.

I've already checked out in terms of AAA gaming on PC. Granted, I'm getting older and don't really have the same interest... I think the Xbox series X is just the better price performance aspect right now if you're an AAA gamer and want visuals without technical issues. I've seen 3090s and 6900XTs struggle to run popular titles.

E-sports gaming? Well that's different, though most are CPU bound... A GPU that's good enough is going to be the problem moving forward. Hopefully future APU's solve that.. Might have wait until DDR6 as DDR5 is more of a leap frog product from my point of view.

I'm not interested in paying insane MSRP prices for a GPU that's barely better than a GTX1080 that went on sale 5 years ago..
Posted on Reply
#91
Ellertis
jaszyAgree.

There's little reason to build a pure gaming machine anymore given both AMD and NVIDIA have pushed incremental improvement into 1k+ MSRP bracket (without factoring market price selling for double). Pre 2016, a $300-400 GPU would pretty much get you the top end offerings in terms of price/performance metric of the BEST offerings at the time. Hell.. even the GTX1080 a year later was selling for $399 on sale since it was worse than 1070 for mining purposes due to GDDR5X being generally worse.

When AMD couldn't compete, they were selling rather expensive compute hardware for only $500-600 USD on sale... lol.. It's just kind of insane to me..... Hell, Even with inflation, there's a clear "adjustment" of what the hardware is today.

I've already checked out in terms of AAA gaming on PC. Granted, I'm getting older and don't really have the same interest... I think the Xbox series X is just the better price performance aspect right now if you're an AAA gamer and want visuals without technical issues. I've seen 3090s and 6900XTs struggle to run popular titles.

E-sports gaming? Well that's different, though most are CPU bound... A GPU that's good enough is going to be the problem moving forward. Hopefully future APU's solve that.. Might have wait until DDR6 as DDR5 is more of a leap frog product from my point of view.
I think that apu will stay in their "niche", apus will get faster but so as will gpu. Considering msrp prices, you can game at 4k with current mid range gpus at ease, 6700xt/3070
Posted on Reply
#92
AdmiralThrawn
Well it looks like they are 199 but the performance is abismal. on par with a 2060 at best
Posted on Reply
#93
Speedyblupi
mechtechCorrect. Nothing wrong with PCIe Ver.4., or x4 interface on a card like that, that's all it needs. No point putting an x16 interface and PCIe ver.4 on a card like that. PCIe ver.3 @ 4x is probably enough bandwidth for a card like that.
MaenadYeah, on specs-wise it's comparable to PCIe2.0 x8 so it should be more than enough for a card like that. :) 4GB should also be enough for these, the GPU/membus struggles before the amount of VRAM.
This is not correct.

The RX 5500 XT 4GB is significantly limited by PCIe 3.0 x8 in many games, especially when it runs out of VRAM - often losing 10% or more of its performance. With only 4 PCIe lanes rather than 8, the RX 6500 XT will be limited to the same degree on a normal PCIe 4.0 x4 bus, and crippled when used in a PCIe 3.0 slot - it will likely lose 20-30% of its performance on average.


You are probably basing your assumption on benchmarks of high-end cards like the RTX 2080 Ti and RTX 3090, which basically never run out of VRAM, and therefore are much less dependent on high PCIe bandwidth than low-end 4GB cards. If the VRAM is filled up, any extra data has to be stored in system RAM and accessed via the PCIe bus.

It might be ok with low resolution textures, but it's very disappointing that this would be necessary for a new $200 card in 2022, especially when it won't actually sell for that price and we can get the same or better performance in most PCs (because most PCs don't support PCIe 4.0) from a $200 card from 5 years ago.
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