Question: What is with the HD 2D Pixel thing? SquareEnix did this with DragonQuest3. Do people really like having HighDef game world but LowDef pixel player models?

Not a fan myself and I'm just a critical of these as I was of the SquareEnix offerings. When they offer up an HD remaster of something ALL aspects of the game are expected to be remastered, INCLUDING the player models.

The least they could have done was offer an option to choose between the two different styles..

This feels half baked. As is, hard pass... I'd rather play the original versions..

Square enix milking the nostalgia cow… same time appealing to the new players

lexluthermiesterQuestion: What is with the HD 2D Pixel thing? SquareEnix did this with DragonQuest3. Do people really like having HighDef game world but LowDef pixel player models?

Not a fan myself and I'm just a critical of these as I was of the SquareEnix offerings. When they offer up an HD remaster of something ALL aspects of the game are expected to be remastered, INCLUDING the player models.

The least they could have done was offer an option to choose between the two different styles..

This feels half baked. As is, hard pass... I'd rather play the original versions..

Star Ocean R are well done (by SE):

First Departure
Second Story

The bests exemples.

KlemcStar Ocean R are well done (by SE):

First Departure
Second Story

The bests exemples.

Can't agree there. Those also look like half-baked, lack-luster efforts. They look like money grabs instead of genuine efforts of remastering.

Oh shit. My friend is a Suikoden fan and he's been trying to force me to play it, I guess that he will get it to me on Steam and I cant be without playing :laugh:

I know it's a hella good game, just not played it yet. :P

lexluthermiesterCan't agree there. Those also look like half-baked, lack-luster efforts. They look like money grabs instead of genuine efforts of remastering.

If you wanna break devs heart, go tell them what you think of their 5 years work's result, lol !

automaton-media.com/en/news/suikoden-i-ii-hd-remaster-took-5-years-to-make-because-the-devs-want-to-reboot-the-ip-with-a-faithful-remaster-that-honors-the-originals/

KlemcIf you wanna break devs heart, go tell them what you think of their 5 years work's result, lol !

automaton-media.com/en/news/suikoden-i-ii-hd-remaster-took-5-years-to-make-because-the-devs-want-to-reboot-the-ip-with-a-faithful-remaster-that-honors-the-originals/

Couldn't care less how long it took them. The final product is just lacking. Just the same with the SquareEnix titles using the same "style" of HD GFX world elements and ugly pixelated character models that that don't fit into to the rest of the graphics. It's just inconsistent and looks like amateurish nonsense. I'd love replay these, but not as presented. As mentioned before, I'd rather play the originals..

Companies that do "press releases" come back to lurk. They will see these comments. They will see the displeasure expressed and realize that they are missing out on sales due to "styling" choices that come off as unfitting and unworthy of some users attention and money. They will see that we expect that when they remaster the GFX, all aspect of the game are expected to get the same treatment.

I had original Suikoden 2 disk and jewel case for PS1, sold the game for $150 about 10 years ago if I recall correctly.

Would rather have had Final Fantasy Tactics or even a real FF VII remake like this without all the bloat of the new ones. Oh well.

lexluthermiesterQuestion: What is with the HD 2D Pixel thing? SquareEnix did this with DragonQuest3. Do people really like having HighDef game world but LowDef pixel player models?

Not a fan myself and I'm just a critical of these as I was of the SquareEnix offerings. When they offer up an HD remaster of something ALL aspects of the game are expected to be remastered, INCLUDING the player models.

The least they could have done was offer an option to choose between the two different styles..

This feels half baked. As is, hard pass... I'd rather play the original versions..

Nostalgia from the PSX era where it wasn't rare to mix 2D and 3D. Octopath Traveler is also a "new game" committed to that aesthetic. And that game was popular and very well-received, so you might be a minority there :D. Especially when you consider that the East isn't trying to imitate the dumpster fire that Western game dev has become and still highly values the opinions of their locals.
Here Are Octopath Traveler’s Famitsu Survey Results - Siliconera

As for what players liked the most about Octopath Traveler, Japanese players voted mostly for the HD-2D pixel graphics, as well as various other reasons. Overseas players overwhelmingly voted for the Break and Command Boost battle systems. In both regions, having eight main characters to choose from was also a popular feature.

Octo path traveler below :

dyonoctisNostalgia from the PSX era where it wasn't rare to mix 2D and 3D.

True. But they worked to make sure the visual fidelity matched as much as possible. These new version do not. It is visually unappealing and break the immersion experience.. I had the same complaint about the original FF7. It was visually ugly. CGI rendered backgrounds mixed with flat shaded character models and texture mapped enemies. It was a visual mess and the immersion didn't exist. I don't care popular it was, it was unacceptable.

lexluthermiesterTrue. But they worked to make sure the visual fidelity matched as much as possible. These new version do not. It is visually unappealing and break the immersion experience.. I had the same complaint about the original FF7. It was visually ugly. CGI rendered backgrounds mixed with flat shaded character models and texture mapped enemies. It was a visual mess and the immersion didn't exist. I don't care popular it was, it was unacceptable.

It's a matter of taste. As long as the Japanese audience likes it, that trend will go on.

I'm hearing more and more noise about how the Asian industry is trying to distance itself from too much Western influence because the Western gaming market isn't looking that healthy right now. Both on the financial and cultural aspects.

The DOF on OT traveller image is soooooooooooo ugly, hope it can be set OFF.

I still have the original discs on PlayStation 1. Great games

Guwapo77I still have the original discs on PlayStation 1. Great games

Attach pics of both sides, so that we see their state, in 2025 ;)

Oh, i remember correctly the PsX discs had a black color !?

Thanks.

phintsWould rather have had Final Fantasy Tactics or even a real FF VII remake like this without all the bloat of the new ones. Oh well.

Not a full fledged remake, but FFT was upgraded and rereleased for the PSP and smartphones a decade or so ago.

lexluthermiesterDo people really like having HighDef game world but LowDef pixel player models?

I get what you're going for, but both the world and models are "high def" here.
Definition is simply a matter of resolution, and the player sprites look crisper than (what I recall) their PSX predecessors did.

On what you're going for, 2.5D and mixing 2.5/3D with lower fidelity 2D sprites has been around for a very long time. And it does have its aesthetic appeal. I personally often like it when it's done well. Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together comes to mind. The use of 3D vfx with the upscaled unit sprites played out very well! On the other hand, I disliked how they handled the Shadow Dragon Fire Emblem remake. The "3d-ified" units didn't play well with me. Would've been 10x better the way they did the GBA ones.

lexluthermiesterQuestion: What is with the HD 2D Pixel thing? SquareEnix did this with DragonQuest3. Do people really like having HighDef game world but LowDef pixel player models?

lexluthermiesterThis feels half baked. As is, hard pass... I'd rather play the original versions..

this literally looks like the originals from back then:

KlemcAttach pics of both sides, so that we see their state, in 2025 ;)

Oh, i remember correctly the PsX discs had a black color !?

Thanks.

I would, but they are in my storage unit. Yes the underside is black. To see the condition, scratch free, but they aren't for sale if that's what your getting at. LoL

dyonoctisAs long as the Japanese audience likes it, that trend will go on.

Perhaps. Let's be honest, it would trivial to also do HD character models and give the user the option to switch between them. Otherwise, It's a piss poor showing and I'm not going to reward such lacking efforts with money.

ShihabI get what you're going for, but both the world and models are "high def" here.

No, they are not. IF you really think they do, you need to get your vision checked.

GerKNGthis literally looks like the originals from back then:

If you think those look the same, you need to have your vision checked.

ShihabNot a full fledged remake, but FFT was upgraded and rereleased for the PSP and smartphones a decade or so ago.


I get what you're going for, but both the world and models are "high def" here.
Definition is simply a matter of resolution, and the player sprites look crisper than (what I recall) their PSX predecessors did.

On what you're going for, 2.5D and mixing 2.5/3D with lower fidelity 2D sprites has been around for a very long time. And it does have its aesthetic appeal. I personally often like it when it's done well. Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together comes to mind. The use of 3D vfx with the upscaled unit sprites played out very well! On the other hand, I disliked how they handled the Shadow Dragon Fire Emblem remake. The "3d-ified" units didn't play well with me. Would've been 10x better the way they did the GBA ones.

nah, 2D sprites are scaling up pretty well, they still look sharp even on an emulator. I'm pretty sure that those sprites are vectorized, and not bitmap.

dyonoctisnah, 2D sprites are scaling up pretty well, they still look sharp even on an emulator. I'm pretty sure that those sprites are vectorized, and not bitmap.

Vector graphics are pretty computationally-expensive to work with, so I doubt the PSX used them. Especially considering resolution limitations of the time.
Upscaling a bitmap does not make it less sharp unless one uses the wrong interpolator. It would not add detail, but distinction between individual colours/pixels could be clearer.
That said, sharpness is not always the desired target. Often one needs transitions and blending. See the debate on "retro pixel art" on modern LCDs vs old CRTs.

lexluthermiesterNo, they are not. IF you really think they do, you need to get your vision checked.

I do indeed need check my eyes, but that's not the issue here.
Definition = resolution. But resolution does not dictate what the content of those pixels should be.


The pixelated look is an artistic choice, not a technical issue.

lexluthermiesterPerhaps. Let's be honest, it would trivial to also do HD character models and give the user the option to switch between them. Otherwise, It's a piss poor showing and I'm not going to reward such lacking efforts with money.

You mean something like the Langrisser remake? At that level it would be closer to a remake: you have to make new character models and new animation both for the characters, animals, and skills which is the most time-consuming part... and would make the dev cost of the game higher, without the guarantee that some fans of the old hours wouldn't find the new presentation offensive. That release is banking on the nostalgia factor. Just look at the comment under the announcement trailer. And looking at how popular the HD 2D remake of Dragon Quest 3 is, the notalgia factor works. In Japan this was the second best-selling game on the PS5 for the year 2024. and that game was released in November 2024. I really think that this style just don't cater to you, but isn't really an issue in the grand scheme of things. From what I could see on steam DB, that HD 2D remake had the highest peak players for a 2D JRPG ever, even beating out a few 3D masterpiece like Nier.
Dragon Quest III Remake sales exceeded Square Enix’s expectations | KitGuru





While that Langrisser game had a more "HD look," I've seen many people who found the sprite "meh" at best. Clean-lined high-res chibi is also very hit or miss. The "Kawai" undertone for something that talks about war won't sit well with some people . That remake only had 400 players peak even though Langrisser I&II were cult games in their era. Right now, the Suidoken remaster has a better rating and over x10 the peak player count.

First game was great. Second one I didn't really care for. Played them on an emulator. But this is a good way for people to get to play the first one without having to fiddle around with emulation.

ShihabThe pixelated look is an artistic choice, not a technical issue.

Maybe, that doesn't make it a good choice. However, presentation counts for a lot and the presentation of these games, and the others like them, don't strike me as artistic expression. They look lazy and hapless.

dyonoctisYou mean something like the Langrisser remake? At that level it would be closer to a remake: you have to make new character models and new animation both for the characters, animals, and skills which is the most time-consuming part... and would make the dev cost of the game higher, without the guarantee that some fans of the old hours wouldn't find the new presentation offensive. That release is banking on the nostalgia factor. Just look at the comment under the announcement trailer. And looking at how popular the HD 2D remake of Dragon Quest 3 is, the notalgia factor works. In Japan this was the second best-selling game on the PS5 for the year 2024. and that game was released in November 2024. I really think that this style just don't cater to you, but isn't really an issue in the grand scheme of things. From what I could see on steam DB, that HD 2D remake had the highest peak players for a 2D JRPG ever, even beating out a few 3D masterpiece like Nier.
Dragon Quest III Remake sales exceeded Square Enix’s expectations | KitGuru




While that Langrisser game had a more "HD look," I've seen many people who found the sprite "meh" at best. Clean-lined high-res chibi is also very hit or miss. The "Kawai" undertone for something that talks about war won't sit well with some people . That remake only had 400 players peak even though Langrisser I&II were cult games in their era. Right now, the Suidoken remaster has a better rating and over x10 the peak player count.

I'm going to refer to the screen shots you posted at the bottom. That is what talking about. All of those character models blend/fit in with the rest of the GFX displayed. I care not about the extra expense(which I'm not willing to accept), if they can't make the game with all of the GFX assets matching each other, I'm not playing it, even for free. It's as simple as that.

lexluthermiesterMaybe, that doesn't make it a good choice. However, presentation counts for a lot and the presentation of these games, and the others like them, don't strike me as artistic expression. They look lazy and hapless.

I'm going to refer to the screen shots you posted at the bottom. That is what talking about. All of those character models blend/fit in with the rest of the GFX displayed. I care not about the extra expense(which I'm not willing to accept), if they can't make the game with all of the GFX assets matching each other, I'm not playing it, even for free. It's as simple as that.

I will make you by it:

www.nexusmods.com/suikoden1and2hdremaster/mods/6