OkieDanNo such thing

GodisanAtheist- He's just saying the 9600XT 16G is Radeon 6800 raster performance and memory but with the upscaling and raytracing perks of RDNA 4, which is more or less on point.

Macro DeviceBoth NV and AMD provide too little stock so the tailers can scalp all they please. Low supply makes their hand winning.

It wouldn't have been like that if someone decided to actively flood the market with their chips.

RinSenpaiI doubt retailers would be scalping, at least in some regions/country.
MSRP is respected in France for 5070 and even 5060 Ti (both 8 and 16GB models). 5070 Ti demand though is high enough to not systematically warrant a drop to MSRP (€880, equivalent $750 converted + 20% VAT at release day). Some retailers though are willing to offer sub-MSRP 5070 Ti if you can go directly in their physical shop, from time to time.

I don't know if it works like that in other countries, but France forbids retailers to sell at a loss, regardless of the products they sell (some exceptions exists, but most of them are about perishable products), the price taken into account does exclude transportation/import fees, financial advantages and some other things. Even wholesalers can't sell their product for a price that is below 90% of the price they paid for. The only exception is during sales periods, which are also defined by the government, for equality between every retailer (physical or online) - read it as "keeping the market fair and competitive" basically. And even then, some conditions apply, as explained here.
Very rough and quick translation to get to the point : Retailers must have obtained their stocks of products and put them for sale at least 1 month prior to the beginning of the sales period in order to be able to sell them at loss, sales price is only for a part of the inventory (not the whole stock of products), and with no possibility to restock. It is also forbidden to order a product solely with the goal of selling it during sales period.

The fact the 9070 XT doesn't drop below €780-800 for all 2-3 major PC tech retailer chains (+ Amazon) in France tells me they're most likely currently blocked from doing so, either because it would eat in their margins (most likely scenario), or simply because they paid so much for them so they can't go lower (and then, we could wonder what was the initial target price before the rebate). In both cases, you need to consider VAT since the government takes (part of) it back from retailers. But 5070 Ti models going below its €880 MSRP also means they have some price room to maneuver with these models in the first place. Summer sales will officially start on the Wednesday last week of June so if my understanding is correct, our tech retailers in France could be forced to keep these 9070 XT prices up until then.

AMD may have really screwed us up in France.

ARF5 years later... Imagine if the chip was done right on a 3nm or 2nm process with double the shaders and the same die area...

LuminescentI think this is a bad deal even if it's free, put Alan wake 2 in path tracing or Black myth wukong and no AMD card can match even 5060 8gb.
Even if it's free no one here should take one, better go buy Nvidia and you get 4 times more frames.
I can't wait for the path tracing benchmarks, but they should hurry before amd finalizes machine learning ray reconstruction, denoising and whatever version of shader execution reordering equivalent they have, then they could have a problem, hopefully they don't implement any of this in said games so no one knows AMD can be competitive in ray tracing.
If AMD wants market share they should pay us to use AMD gpu's, otherwise Nvidia 8gb and 4x more frames it is.

Marcus LPut path tracing on them without performance DLSS and MFG and it will be a slideshow anyway

GodisanAtheist- It's actually pretty impressive for a 190mm2 chip to get within spitting distance of a 530mm2 chip with really only one major node shrink between them (7nm -> 5/4nm).

Goes to show how much room for refinement there was on the RDNA arch.

ARFIt is not impressive, but at all. Because it shows how terribly engineered the Navi 21 chip is. When 7nm transistor density is high:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nm_process

they made that turd:


www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6800-xt.c3694


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process


www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-9070-xt.c4229

Of course, with Navi 48 the things are fixed, but still - how many years till we see a working 3nm die, not to mention 2nm ?

LuminescentI think this is a bad deal even if it's free, put Alan wake 2 in path tracing or Black myth wukong and no AMD card can match even 5060 8gb.
Even if it's free no one here should take one, better go buy Nvidia and you get 4 times more frames.
I can't wait for the path tracing benchmarks, but they should hurry before amd finalizes machine learning ray reconstruction, denoising and whatever version of shader execution reordering equivalent they have, then they could have a problem, hopefully they don't implement any of this in said games so no one knows AMD can be competitive in ray tracing.
If AMD wants market share they should pay us to use AMD gpu's, otherwise Nvidia 8gb and 4x more frames it is.

LuminescentIt was a joke, obviously!
Just look how whenever AMD makes a GPU, everyone wants to be cheaper than Nvidia to the point of absurdity, they want 16gb, exceptional performance but compete with the crapiest Nvidia gpu's in price.
So to these people, even if AMD gave them for free they would still be unhappy.

AusWolfThose people you're talking about are Nvidia fans. They don't actually want AMD to be cheaper, they just say that to justify their purchases.

LuminescentI think they are more than that, i bet you there are Nvidia employees on reddit and big communities like techpowerup who work to spread misinformation, promote Nvidia products and message, and argue with other AMD fanboys and employees of AMD who do the same.
Remember the AMD drivers are bad and how long it stuck, and they are actually good for a good number of years but they worked hard to keep this impression about AMD.
Let's see where the narrative goes once AMD is good with ray tracing.
Corporations now fight with the same tools politicians fight, beyond the actual product there is the propaganda who will say if you buy this product your computer might actually burst into flames, the chance of that happening are very slim but if enough people believe then mission accomplished.

LuminescentI think they are more than that, i bet you there are Nvidia employees on reddit and big communities like techpowerup who work to spread misinformation, promote Nvidia products and message, and argue with other AMD fanboys and employees of AMD who do the same.
Remember the AMD drivers are bad and how long it stuck, and they are actually good for a good number of years but they worked hard to keep this impression about AMD.
Let's see where the narrative goes once AMD is good with ray tracing.
Corporations now fight with the same tools politicians fight, beyond the actual product there is the propaganda who will say if you buy this product your computer might actually burst into flames, the chance of that happening are very slim but if enough people believe then mission accomplished.

Dr. DroAMD drivers? Good for a number of years? Try maybe a number of months, and I'll cut you that slack.

Dr. DroThe 9070 XT just now introduced things like tensor cores to Radeon, Nvidia's had that since 2018: 2017 if you count the Titan V.

Dr. DroSoftware is progressing but not there - they've literally announced their RT denoiser to be released within this year.

Dr. DroI really don't think Nvidia needs to employ anyone to defend them in online forums, nor AMD for that matter... fans do it for free :laugh:

AusWolfHere we go again! :sleep:

On what experience do you base that statement on?

Dr. DroHere we go again, I say. You really think because I don't use one of their cards on my PC I am like, airgapped, completely no contact with their GPUs? That's the twisted logic I've never been able to figure out. :confused:

Macro DeviceJokes aside, AMD really need to step it up. In current market, their offerings can sell and would sell pretty well. JUST PROVIDE MORE SUPPLY. These fake MSRP crumbs are a disgusting insult.

Dr. DroAMD drivers? Good for a number of years? Try maybe a number of months

Dr. DroI really don't think Nvidia needs to employ anyone to defend them in online forums, nor AMD for that matter... fans do it for free :laugh:

AusWolfThey did it right with the 9070 series

Ninja WeedleNow it just has to stay below 400...one can dream.

Macro DeviceThey did not. Like I said, only having supply issues resolved by month 3 (and nowhere near worldwide FWIW) isn't doing it right in any book. When only several countries have access to cards sold at MSRP it's not it.

Macro DeviceThey did not. Like I said, only having supply issues resolved by month 3 (and nowhere near worldwide FWIW) isn't doing it right in any book. When only several countries have access to cards sold at MSRP it's not it.