Friday, August 4th 2017

AMD RX Vega Mining Performance Reportedly Doubled With Driver Updates

Disclaimer: take this post with a bucket of salt. However, the information here, if true, could heavily impact AMD's RX Vega cards' stock at launch and in the subsequent days, so, we're sharing this so our readers can decide on whether they want to pull the trigger for a Vega card at launch, as soon as possible, or risk what would seem like the equivalent of a mining Black Friday crowd gobbling up AMD's RX Vega models' stock. Remember that AMD has already justified delays for increased stock so as to limit the impact of miners on the available supply.

The information has been put out by two different sources already. The first source we encountered (and which has been covered by some media outlets solo) has been one post from one of OC UK's staff, Gibbo, who in a forum post, said "Seems the hash rate on VEGA is 70-100 per card, which is insanely good. Trying to devise some kind of plan so gamers can get them at MSRP without the miners wiping all the stock out within 5 minutes of product going live."
The fact that a staffer from OC UK is actually looking for ways to prevent miners from wiping the stock speaks more to the credence of the information than the "70-100 hash rate" claim. Apparently, this information was conveyed to Gibbo from an AMD AIB partner, who remains unknown at time of writing. This information has already been sort of confirmed by a second source, coming out of Videocardz's Why Cry. In a post, the editor reported how he already had come in possession of similar information through his sources, who put the hash rate of RX Vega close to double that of the Frontier Edition's original hash rate, which was ~30 MH/s in Ethereum mining. This means the hash rate could be ~60 mark, which is still close to OC UK's Gibbo's reference to a "70-100" hash rate. This increase in hash rate was apparently indirectly enabled by updated driver features for the RX Vega cards. Apparently, these were included in the drivers to improve features and gaming performance - which also indirectly resulted in increased mining capabilities.

We had already covered in our Vega Architecture Technical Overview article that AMD's Vega NGCU computation capabilities were bolstered through added support for over 40 new ISA instructions, which result in increased IPC over Polaris - and which were also mentioned by VSG at the time as being "very relevant for GPU mining."
Adding to this story is the fact that recent optimizations from a Reddit user to a Monero mining program and an underclock to 1.3 GHz have brought the Frontier Edition's mining hashrates to around 1.16 kH/s - 34% faster than a GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (around 0.76 kH/s according to Nicehash), and 43% faster than a single Radeon RX 580 8 GB. This means that the $999 Frontier Edition currently stands at double the mining performance of the GTX 1080 on Monero - and the gaming RX Vega, with its $499 price-tag, should follow suit. And these are optimizations achieved by a single user, for a cryptocurrency that is admittedly not as popular as Ethereum or others. But increasing levels of performance in some mining algorithms really does leave the door open for exploration of improved speeds on others, and you can rest assured that miners will, at the very least, attempt to achieve these optimizations in other cryptocurrencies.
All in all, if true, these reports lend credence to AMD's take on the RX Vega delays for stock build-up. And the situation seems to be less straightforward than one might hope when it comes to disabling these instructions, or only enabling them at a latter date, after gamers had already had some time to purchase their desired cards. Because these driver-level updates were apparently done with the intent to bolster gaming performance, I believe it's safe to assume AMD can't easily neuter the mining improvements without putting the increased gaming performance at risk as well. Let's see how this pans out, but consider yourselves at least warned - the RX Vega may see much reduced stock and increased pricing throughout if this scenario pans out. in the meantime, those Radeon Packs with both their shortcomings and opportunities are looking like an increasingly interesting way to get ahold of one of AMD's latest... Sources: OCUK's Gibbo, Videocardz, NAG, Dirtbagdh @ Reddit
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216 Comments on AMD RX Vega Mining Performance Reportedly Doubled With Driver Updates

#76
Captain_Tom
"dyonoctis said:
Yhea right. Let's just shut up and accept the lack of stock and inflated price. Let gaming pc or even video editing/3D rendering pc become something accesible to only the richest among us. Computers used to be a luxury after all. We've been too spoiled lately.
You will shut up and accept it, because you have no other choice.


Graphics cards possess immense processing power for the money, and it was inevitable they would inflate in price once applications started to make good use of their processing power. Nvidia has been trying to increase GPU prices for years simply because they are sick and tired of selling a 1080 for $500 when the professional version is being sold for $2000!

AMD didn't have the mindshare to demand higher prices, but now their cards are also finally being utilized for business purposes.
Posted on Reply
#77
Vya Domus
"ZoneDymo said:
I think you need to look at your own post again and question just about every line to see how many options you leave open, how oddly tunnel vision your "argument" is given the variables presented by yourself.
How about this line -> ...but I'm sure someone will disagree and explain to me how this is cryptocurrency is the messiah of money making..

Yup , spot on.

So you told me I am wrong , fair enough. Now how tell me why , because what you said is extremely vague at best and does not count as an argument in all fairness. Not even as much as "tunnel vision argument" and you know it.
Posted on Reply
#78
Steevo
All AMD needs to do is either have an infinite amount of foresight to know if 1) their card will be great at a digital currency algorithm and 2) they have all the supplies in the world with the same fixed cost.

Other than that if they have a logic processor that happens to be better than the competition at calculating certain loads due to architecture and higher accuracy during specific computation workloads.... people will buy them and retailers will gouge buyers.

Why doesn't someone blame Nvidia for their mediocre performance per dollar? How about their love of substituting lower accuracy for higher performance unless its explicitly stated the pipeline must remain at 16 or 32 bit? How come no one makes a new ASIC that outperforms everyone elses?
Posted on Reply
#79
the54thvoid
This thread is a double post-a-rama.

Learn to multi-quote people.

"Steevo said:
How come no one makes a new ASIC that outperforms everyone elses?
I read somewhere (maybe the back of a bus shelter) that some crypto-currencies are scripted so as not be readily ASIC mined, i.e. the ASIC miners have had their day to stop mass corporations mining for profit. This maybe why the run on AMD for mining has been so unbelievably strong as the ASIC rigs are out in the cold.
Posted on Reply
#80
Vya Domus
"Steevo said:
All AMD needs to do is either have an infinite amount of foresight to know if 1) their card will be great at a digital currency algorithm and 2) they have all the supplies in the world with the same fixed cost.

Other than that if they have a logic processor that happens to be better than the competition at calculating certain loads due to architecture and higher accuracy during specific computation workloads.... people will buy them and retailers will gouge buyers.

Why doesn't someone blame Nvidia for their mediocre performance per dollar? How about their love of substituting lower accuracy for higher performance unless its explicitly stated the pipeline must remain at 16 or 32 bit? How come no one makes a new ASIC that outperforms everyone elses?
AMD is responsible for the mining craze , latest fanboy joke of the year.
Posted on Reply
#81
Captain_Tom
"Vya Domus said:
AMD is responsible for the mining craze , latest fanboy joke of the year.
ikr? LOL


Look I get why people are frustrated, but there really is no one out there to blame. The only blame I can think of is to be annoyed that this surprised AMD/Nvidia yet again.

This is like the 3rd time their cards have sold out due to miners, and to be surprised by the THIRD time something has happened is completely ridiculous.
Posted on Reply
#82
EarthDog
Sooooooo NVIDIA and AMD are supposed to know bitcoin markets/futures???? Come on now...

We cant be mad at either of them IMO.
Posted on Reply
#83
Vya Domus
"Captain_Tom said:
The only blame I can think of is to be annoyed that this surprised AMD/Nvidia yet again.
I doesn't even matter if they have been taken by surprise or not , it ain't their fault and there is nothing they can do other than to gain unlimited supply of wafers.
Posted on Reply
#84
dyonoctis
"Captain_Tom said:
You will shut up and accept it, because you have no other choice.


Graphics cards possess immense processing power for the money, and it was inevitable they would inflate in price once applications started to make good use of their processing power. Nvidia has been trying to increase GPU prices for years simply because they are sick and tired of selling a 1080 for $500 when the professional version is being sold for $2000!

AMD didn't have the mindshare to demand higher prices, but now their cards are also finally being utilized for business purposes.
Quadro price are justified for the added value that they bring for people making a living from content creation or scientific usage.
Geforce and radeon are mainly entertainement tool that can also be used for compute. Gaming card can do compute task just fine, but the developement of their driver isn't made with optimisation for the lastest rendering engine, or the lastest 3d software, it's focalised on games. You want a quick fix for a bug in maya ? You gotta buy a quadro or a radeon pro.

Both Nvidia and AMD have compute unit that were made from the ground up for heavy processing 24/24 7/7 for several years. But the average joe don't buy them, he can't afford it. Instead he's buying stuff that was meant for entertainement. And the demamd is higher than what the factory can put out. Hell even without miners, we already had issue with stock because manufacturing silicon becomes harder and harder. Mining need to have specific hardware that is cheap to make and got a low energy cost.

I'm also doing video edititing 3d rendering/compositing with my pc. So I was really glad to see opencl, cuda, bring more speed for those kind of task.

But for me mining doesn't hold the same value. Mining isn't something that you can enjoy on the long term with a single gpu, the more people that get on the band wagon, the more power it require. Mining hunger is growing way faster than the technology it's using. ETH is the cause of unprecedented energy drain.
Good thing laptop are not concerned by all of this. If their price had to increase because of all this we would have reached total insanity.
Posted on Reply
#85
efikkan
"nemesis.ie said:
40k (USD?) profit/year would be a gold mine for many folks.. A lot of people (myself included at the moment) earn less than that working a "real" job.
Really?
40k USD at the moment, but constantly falling, for a super noisy, high maintenance, high risk fire hazard in your basement or garage is a gold mine?

And as with all the other cryptocurrencies, by the time it's mentioned in public it's really too late to earn any real money mining. The ones making a real profit are the ones who mined thousands of coins when it was easy and unknown. You are going to earn less for every single new miner and every single new coin that's found, that sounds like a pretty bad investment.

It's not that hard to make a couple thousands bucks a month dealing in collectibles such as stamps, old video games, etc. But before you think you can make a living from such activities, you should take a closer look at what you'll earn per hour reliably…

"Captain_Tom said:
That is when you switch to a different coin lol.
This will not go on forever.
And there is no guarantee that the cards you buy now will be good for any kind of mining for the next years. And it's not like these cards last for many years when doing mining 24-7.
Posted on Reply
#86
yotano211
"ZoneDymo said:
Oh no, more people are interested in the hardware we are interested in and thus the price goes up?!?!
I feel so betraaaayed!!!
"Durvelle27 said:
Nooooooooooo
NOOOOoooo!!!!1111111
Posted on Reply
#87
yotano211
"efikkan said:
Really?
40k USD at the moment, but constantly falling, for a super noisy, high maintenance, high risk fire hazard in your basement or garage is a gold mine?

And as with all the other cryptocurrencies, by the time it's mentioned in public it's really too late to earn any real money mining. The ones making a real profit are the ones who mined thousands of coins when it was easy and unknown. You are going to earn less for every single new miner and every single new coin that's found, that sounds like a pretty bad investment.

It's not that hard to make a couple thousands bucks a month dealing in collectibles such as stamps, old video games, etc. But before you think you can make a living from such activities, you should take a closer look at what you'll earn per hour reliably…


This will not go on forever.
And there is no guarantee that the cards you buy now will be good for any kind of mining for the next years. And it's not like these cards last for many years when doing mining 24-7.
Funny, I have 16 mining rigs and the last one to go down or restart was over a week ago (stupid windows update). In the beginning it was like a full time job for me but I gave up on the high overclocking and every card now is stock. 99% stable now.
Posted on Reply
#88
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
"yotano211 said:
If this is true, I am ready to order 24+ from a local supplier near by.
I am looking at 18 units myself. Love all the complaining in the thread though. Magically all these people "were going to upgrade"

"yotano211 said:
Funny, I have 16 mining rigs and the last one to go down or restart was over a week ago (stupid windows update). In the beginning it was like a full time job for me but I gave up on the high overclocking and every card now is stock. 99% stable now.
All of mine have the ram bumped and the tdp dropped only cards I still have issues with are the damn amd ones.
Posted on Reply
#89
cowie
"yotano211 said:
Funny, I have 16 mining rigs and the last one to go down or restart was over a week ago (stupid windows update). In the beginning it was like a full time job for me but I gave up on the high overclocking and every card now is stock. 99% stable now.
hope you don't mind me asking but how many gpu's per rig?


like say if I had just 4 580' going in whatever coin that's "in atm" any ballpark number on monthly profits?
Posted on Reply
#90
hat
Enthusiast
"yotano211 said:
Funny, I have 16 mining rigs and the last one to go down or restart was over a week ago (stupid windows update). In the beginning it was like a full time job for me but I gave up on the high overclocking and every card now is stock. 99% stable now.
You probably actually earn more this way than you did before too, don't you? Less downtime...

@cdawall you got any 1070s with micron RAM? If so, what's your memory offset and power target for them?
Posted on Reply
#91
efikkan
Bringing this thread back on track; the only way mining is going to have a substantial effect on supplies for Vega is if the supplies themselves are very limited to begin with. With a normal high volume card, mining sales would just make up a few percent of the shipped units. But if Vega is an attractive mining GPU, and the supplies are going to just be a few thousands, then surely it will be hard to get.

But make no mistake, even the most crazy mining rush will not be enough to make a good profit for AMD. I did my bitcoin mining before the big GPU rush there, but even that big GPU rush did not make a real impact on AMD's market position nor AMD's profits. Even if AMD managed to ship enough Vegas to meet any demand, the mining market is ultimately "capped", since each new coin makes it less profitable. Even with constantly new currencies, the demand for such GPUs are fairly limited over time. If Vega turns out to be 2-3× better at mining than current cards, that's just going accelerate the rush until it becomes unprofitable.
Posted on Reply
#92
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
"hat said:
You probably actually earn more this way than you did before too, don't you? Less downtime...

@cdawall you got any 1070s with micron RAM? If so, what's your memory offset and power target for them?
All of my 1070's are micron they are all stable at +65/+550/70% TDP that's good for 30mh/s
Posted on Reply
#93
dorsetknob
"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
"Captain_Tom said:
a 30-day warranty,
Not in the EU not unless they want the EU up their ..........................unmentionable
And the EU is a Very Big market ( with consumer Protection Clout )
Posted on Reply
#94
nemesis.ie
"efikkan said:
Really?
40k USD at the moment, but constantly falling, for a super noisy, high maintenance, high risk fire hazard in your basement or garage is a gold mine?
The original post, which I commented on only stated 40k profit/year. The assumption would be that includes the price/need to add cards, switching coins etc. i.e. earning 40k/year from mining versus a proper job - or even as an extra in one's spare time.

THAT is what I consider a gold mine ... free money for very little work. Actually that would be BETTER than a gold mine as real mining is pretty hard on one's body. ;)
Posted on Reply
#95
dyonoctis
"cdawall said:
I am looking at 18 units myself. Love all the complaining in the thread though. Magically all these people "were going to upgrade"



All of mine have the ram bumped and the tdp dropped only cards I still have issues with are the damn amd ones.
Well apparently you got the money to buy whatever you like at whatever price, no wonder that you would be oblivious to peasants whinning. :D
I don't care about vega, even the msrp would be above my budget. what really annoy me is how it's reaching even budget oriented market, and the incertitude about when it's going to settle down.
Posted on Reply
#96
Vya Domus
"nemesis.ie said:
The original post, which I commented on only stated 40k profit/year. The assumption would be that includes the price/need to add cards, switching coins etc. i.e. earning 40k/year from mining versus a proper job
That doesn't include the cost of the cards , and you never know how relevant ETH is going to remain relevant ,which is what I used as an example or any coin for that matter. Cards brake too. It's something too volatile for someone that isn't already very financially stable to invest into. Call it a gold mine , I wouldn't. You might just as well start betting.

As a side income it's OK but at that point it as far as it can get form a gold mine.
Posted on Reply
#97
GAR
"TheGuruStud said:
Lol at all the butthurt and blaming AMD as if AMD has ANYTHING to do with the "mining crisis".

You're mad, b/c AMD has had superior cards for many years (forever) for this particular workload.

Boohoo. Go cry to mommy, so she can buy you one.

Little Huang is laughing all the way to the bank. They don't even have to trick you. You're tricking yourselves. Go buy an Intel CPU why you're at, so you can really stick it to AMD (as if they're profiting from inflated prices...).
LOL who is this fool? get out of here you idiot.
Posted on Reply
#98
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
"dyonoctis said:
Well apparently you got the money to buy whatever you like at whatever price, no wonder that you would be oblivious to peasants whinning. :D
I don't care about vega, even the msrp would be above my budget. I just don't like how it's reaching even budget oriented market, and the incertitude about when it's going to settle down.
That was a stock issues. The lack of stock of for cards worth buying made budget cards looked at. Anything below a 1060/570 is a waste of money.

"Vya Domus said:
That doesn't include the cost of the cards , and you never know how relevant ETH is going to remain relevant ,which is what I used as an example or any coin for that matter. Cards brake too. It's something too volatile for someone that isn't already very financially stable to invest into. Call it a gold mine , I wouldn't. You might just as well start betting.

As a side income it's OK but at that point it as far as it can get form a gold mine.
Then you swap to a different crypto currency. Cards have warranties as well if they go down, box them up send them out and move on. The only cards I am seeing really have issues are ones run too hot or memory pushed too far. Most miners who do this to make money and not because tom's hardware had a thread about it massively drop TDP levels and wattage consumed so you are looking load wise at nothing more than a typical game might hit (often times it is lower than even that). Most of the algorithms worth money on a GPU mainly load the memory controllers.

As a side income it all depends what you are willing to invest. If you were to drop 100K into this yes it would a gold mine.
Posted on Reply
#99
Vya Domus
"cdawall said:
If you were to drop 100K into this yes it would a gold mine.
But how many of these home miners drop 100k. Do you ? Who even has 100k to casually invest into something like this ? 100k is the kind of money a well paid job pays. Who would consider such an investment for some side income , a millionaire ?

My point is that this is really difficult to get into for most people and make a living out of it. Not a smart idea either.
Posted on Reply
#100
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
"Vya Domus said:
But how many of these home miners drop 100k. Do you ? Who even has 100k to casually invest into something like this ? 100k is the kind of money a well paid job pays. Who would consider such an investment for some side income , a millionaire ?

My point is that this is really difficult to get into for most people and make a living out of it. Not a smart idea either.
It takes money to make money. I live in Houston and I can tell you plenty of people with good paying jobs dumped a stupid amount of money into mining. Mining has afforded me a nice 70K dollar SUV, I could have reinvested that money into the market again yes, or I could cash out on something more useful for my family.
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