Friday, May 4th 2018

Cadence and Micron Demo DDR5-4400 Memory Module

Cadence and Micron have joined forces to build the world's first working DDR5-4400 memory module. Cadence provided their DDR5 memory controller and PHY for the prototype while Micron produced the 8 Gb chips, which were manufactured under TSMC's 7 nm process. They were able to achieve 4400 megatransfers per second, which is roughly 37.5% faster than the fastest DDR4 memory that is currently on the market. Nevertheless, Marc Greenberg from Cadence emphasized that DDR5 aims to provide increased capacity solutions, more than actual performance.

The DDR5 standard should facilitate the production of 16 Gb dies and make vertical stacking easier. Restricted by laws of physics, dies eventually get slower as they increased in size. Once you start putting 16Gb die in 1X memory technology, the distances between them starts to get longer. As a result, core timing parameters become worse. Cadence's prototype had a CAS latency of 42 (No, not a typo). Although, the test module does run at 1.1 volts, which makes it quite impressive when compared to DDR4.
Cadence expect DDR5-4400 to be the standard for DDR5 with DDR5-6400 coming later down the line. According to their analysis, we could see DDR5-based systems as soon as in 2019. However, they'll most likely be servers. The process of DDR5 adoption will be gradual and steady until 2021 when it starts to really ramp up. It's important to point out that the DDR5 standard isn't completed yet. JEDEC won't finalize the specifications for DDR5 until sometime this summer. Having being the first with IP for DDR5, Cadence already has its eyes set on LPDDR5 and HBM. Source: Cadence
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35 Comments on Cadence and Micron Demo DDR5-4400 Memory Module

#1
happita
Here's to hoping consumer products show up by the end of 2019.
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#2
PowerPC
Here's to upgrading your Ryzen CPU in 2-3 years without changing motherboards.
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#3
Chloe Price
"PowerPC said:
Here's to upgrading your Ryzen CPU in 2-3 years without changing motherboards.
Umm, does someone point a gun to your head and say "BUY DDR5 OR ELSE...!"? Also, they could do the same they did with Phenom II's, AM3 versions had both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers, so you could go with your old motherboard.

I switched to DDR4 about 1½yrs ago and I plan to go with this for some years. Like on my past with computer memory

SDRAM from my PC hobby beginning to 2006
DDR1 from 2006 to 2008
DDR2 from 2008 to 2011
DDR3 from 2011 to 2016
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#4
PowerPC
"Chloe Price said:
Umm, does someone point a gun to your head and say "BUY DDR5 OR ELSE...!"?
Well, if it's as disappointing an upgrade as DDR4 was for DDR3 I agree with you. But if DDR5 actually brings something new to the table, people will want to switch.
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#5
phanbuey
"Chloe Price said:
Umm, does someone point a gun to your head and say "BUY DDR5 OR ELSE...!"? Also, they could do the same they did with Phenom II's, AM3 versions had both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers, so you could go with your old motherboard.

I switched to DDR4 about 1½yrs ago and I plan to go with this for some years. Like on my past with computer memory

SDRAM from my PC hobby beginning to 2006
DDR1 from 2006 to 2008
DDR2 from 2008 to 2011
DDR3 from 2011 to 2016
good plan... you're actually switching during the sweet spot when the benefits are realized... Usually the first few years there is no real benefit until the high speed kits come out, as you're going from a high speed kit of the prior generation to the first few versions of the new.
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#6
ShurikN
"PowerPC said:
Here's to upgrading your Ryzen CPU in 2-3 years without changing motherboards.
For that to happen the memory module (memory slot) would need to retain the same pin layout with DDR4.
Do you know how many times that has happened in the past?
Zero.
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#7
ironwolf
Start pricing those kidneys now folks... o_O
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#8
JalleR
"ShurikN said:
For that to happen the memory module (memory slot) would need to retain the same pin layout with DDR4.
Do you know how many times that has happened in the past?
Zero.
And the CPUonCHIP memorycontroler need to be changd………. so even if they stick with the sockel they will en up with an INTEL anyways :D get it..... :D
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#9
HTC
Question: with the latency described in OP, will this memory be worth it, in performance?

I imagine some work loads are far more sensitive to latency then others, where bandwidth rules.

EDIT

"ShurikN said:
For that to happen the memory module (memory slot) would need to retain the same pin layout with DDR4.
Do you know how many times that has happened in the past?
Zero.
I'm a bit confused here: isn't AM4 platform supposed to last until 2020? That means i can buy a RyZen CPU in 2 years time and stick it in my current board (AsRock Taichi) and it should work with, more than likely, BIOS updates.
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#10
ShurikN
"HTC said:



I'm a bit confused here: isn't AM4 platform supposed to last until 2020? That means i can buy a RyZen CPU in 2 years time and stick it in my current board (AsRock Taichi) and it should work with, more than likely, BIOS updates.
Yeah and in 2020 AMD will launch AM5 with ddr5 support. Absolutely no need to rush a brand new memory standard as it's early iterations brings nothing to the table compared to a let's say ddr4 4000, which should be a norm by late 2019.
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#11
dwade
"PowerPC said:
Here's to upgrading your Ryzen CPU in 2-3 years without changing motherboards.
Only fools fall for that marketing deception. If I want a new CPU, I’ll buy a new board that comes with all new features, upgraded VRMs, and optimizations.
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#12
HTC
"dwade said:
Only fools fall for that marketing deception. If I want a new CPU, I’ll buy a new board that comes with all new features, upgraded VRMs, and optimizations.
It's not deception. You can actually do that.

That said, you'll lose out on any newer chipset / RAM / something else improvements that go "hand in hand" with the newer generations, meaning you won't be able to take full advantage of the CPU but will have most of it.

For example: with my TaiChi X370, i can run a 2700X CPU just fine, but i won't have precision overdride that X470 has.
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#13
Imsochobo
"ShurikN said:
For that to happen the memory module (memory slot) would need to retain the same pin layout with DDR4.
Do you know how many times that has happened in the past?
Zero.
Phenom II supports DDR2 and DDR3.
Two sockets, AM2 and AM3 but the cpu can be interchanged.
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#14
Tomorrow
"happita said:
Here's to hoping consumer products show up by the end of 2019.
Not a chance. DDR5 will go to servers first in 2019/2020. Then HEDT in 2020/2021 and then mainstream in 2021/2022 and finally budget in 2023+

Also CAS timings CL42. Ouch. For comparison DDR4 does 4400 at CL18-CL19. First DDR5 is going to be slower than best DDR4 at the moment. Hell best DDR4 sticks already ship with 4600-4700Mhz and go to 5000Mhz best case.

DDR5 is more about capacity not speed.
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#15
Chloe Price
I don't give a shit about DDR5 unless it's a must to upgrade.

DDR4 already feels like a new tech and they're pushing already a better memory standard? But well, who forces me to upgrade from my 7700K..?
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#16
PowerPC
lol, I was obviously just being sarcastic. Of course, nobody will be able to keep the motherboard, if they want the new RAM. But I was making fun of the Ryzen people who always bring this as an argument for Ryzen motherboards.
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#17
lynx29
"ironwolf said:
Start pricing those kidneys now folks... o_O
They realized they are a monopoly, got a taste for the increased prices, and will keep prices that way. They won't come back down. Gamers Nexus basically said that, an inside source in the memory industry said, and I quote, "We have more money than God now" - Ram manufacturer source for Gamers Nexus, lolol.
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#18
Tomorrow
"dwade said:
Only fools fall for that marketing deception. If I want a new CPU, I’ll buy a new board that comes with all new features, upgraded VRMs, and optimizations.
Yeah because we've had MASSIVE progress on that going from Z170 to Z370 right? (for example). Granted X470 was a bigger jump compared to X370 but only because X370 was the first proper modern chipset from AMD in like 5+ years.
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#20
ShurikN
"Imsochobo said:
Phenom II supports DDR2 and DDR3.
Two sockets, AM2 and AM3 but the cpu can be interchanged.
I'm talking about memory slots, because the guy wanted to retain his AM4/ddr4 motherboard, and upgrade to both ddr5 and new cpu that supports it. So what you said has nothing to do with what I said. AM2 (or should I say AM2+, as I believe PhenomII doesn't work on original AM2) has DDR2, and AM3 has DDR3, and the 2 memory modules aren't interchangeable. You can't drop DDR3 in your AM2(+) MB even tho the chip supports it.
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#21
Caring1
"ironwolf said:
Start pricing those kidneys now folks... o_O
Mine, or just anyone's?
I might have to sell multiple :laugh:
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#22
RejZoR
Usually takes a year or two for memory type to mature. Always. First generations are often no faster than last gen. But over time as they mature, they get lower latencies and higher clocks. Remember times when we had CAS 3 or 4 memory? But at like 533MHz It's CAS 12 now. But we have clocks beyond 3000 MHz...
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#23
Tomorrow
"RejZoR said:
Usually takes a year or two for memory type to mature. Always. First generations are often no faster than last gen. But over time as they mature, they get lower latencies and higher clocks. Remember times when we had CAS 3 or 4 memory? But at like 533MHz It's CAS 12 now. But we have clocks beyond 3000 MHz...
JEDEC / Most common
DDR-333 @ CL2,5 / DDR-400 @ CL3
DDR2-667 @ CL5 / DDR2-800 @ CL5
DDR3-1066 @ CL7 / DDR3-1600 @ CL11
DDR4-2133 @ CL16 / DDR4-2133 @ CL16

Essentially the JEDEC baseline speed has always doubled (except from DDR2 to DDR3 but you could argue that 1333Mhz was DDR3 baseline) and if DDR5 starts from 4400Mhz it is in line with 2133x2. Even a litte over it.

However the progress has slowed down:
DDR1 2000
DDR2 2003
DDR3 2007
DDR4 2014

3 years, 4 years, 7 years and currently 4+ years.
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#24
mroofie
"Tomorrow said:
Not a chance. DDR5 will go to servers first in 2019/2020. Then HEDT in 2020/2021 and then mainstream in 2021/2022 and finally budget in 2023+

Also CAS timings CL42. Ouch. For comparison DDR4 does 4400 at CL18-CL19. First DDR5 is going to be slower than best DDR4 at the moment. Hell best DDR4 sticks already ship with 4600-4700Mhz and go to 5000Mhz best case.

DDR5 is more about capacity not speed.
So basically 2 sticks in one with combined latency.

Such innovation :eek:

Much wow :rolleyes:
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#25
RejZoR
The thing is, we had dual channel since DDR1 till around 2008 when Intel released triple channel X58. It's when clock didn't matter anymore (or at least a lot less). Today, some of us are on quad channel already. My QC setup will have the grunt to compete with fastest dual channels for next couple of years. So, I think that's one of reasons why this chasing for insane speeds kinda slowed down a bit. You need more memory bandwidth, get X99 or X299 platform or AMD's X399.
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