Tuesday, November 14th 2017

Battlefield V with RTX Initial Tests: Performance Halved

Having survived an excruciatingly slow patch update, we are testing "Battlefield V" with DirectX Ray-tracing and NVIDIA RTX enabled, across the GeForce RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 Ti, augmenting the RTX-on test data to our Battlefield V Performance Analysis article. We began testing with a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti graphics card with GeForce 416.94 WHQL drivers on Windows 10 1809. Our initial test results are shocking. With RTX enabled in the "ultra" setting, frame-rates dropped by close to 50% at 1080p.

These may look horrifying, given that at its highest setting, even an RTX 2080 Ti isn't able to manage 1080p 120 Hz. But all is not lost. DICE added granularity to RTX. You can toggle between off, low, medium, high, and ultra as "degrees" of RTX level of detail, under the "DXR ray-traced reflections quality" setting. We are currently working on 27 new data-points (each of the RTX 20-series graphics cards, at each level of RTX, and at each of the three resolutions we tested at).

Update: Our full performance analysis article is live now, including results for RTX 2070, 2080, 2080 Ti, each at RTX off/low/medium/high/ultra.
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180 Comments on Battlefield V with RTX Initial Tests: Performance Halved

#51
Shatun_Bear
What did the Tom's Hardware editor say again?

'Just buy one, why wait to experience ray tracing when you can have it now before all your friends'. Presumably he was talking about barely noticeable ray tracing 1080p gaming at 30 fps....
Posted on Reply
#52
[XC] Oj101
ShurikN said:
Unplayable stuttering and 50% FPS drop on a $1200 card. Truly a technological marvel.
Maybe you should read my full post before replying, such as:
So far we do not have any games using an engine built from the ground up for ray tracing support. Ray tracing has been patched onto rasterization engines which were never designed for ray tracing.
Wait until we have engines written with ray tracing in mind from the get go.
Don’t base the small increase in quality on a badly patched rasterization engine.
Aldain said:
So much F*** damage control in one post it is unbelievable. Dude give it a rest , ray tracing is shat in bf5 and Turing is nothing more than a half baked beta testing arch with ONE ELEMENT ray tracing.. Calling Turing a revolution is an insult to the entire PC gaming and tech spectrum..
You too are judging an entire technology based on one game which was not designed for ray tracing.

Calling RTX anything less than revolutionary is an insult to every engineer who worked on it. Just because you don't understand it or we don't have the software available to take full advantage of it doesn't take anything away from what it is.
Posted on Reply
#53
Hellfire
Shatun_Bear said:
What did the Tom's Hardware editor say again?

'Just buy one, why wait to experience ray tracing when you can have it now before all your friends'. Presumably he was talking about barely noticeable ray tracing 1080p gaming at 30 fps....
People still read the trash from Toms Hardware?
Posted on Reply
#54
RH92
[XC
Oj101, post: 3941666, member: 102321"]The negativity surrounding RTX is unbelievable. Technologically, this is probably the biggest step up we’ve had in the history of the GeForce cards.
I would like to be surprised by the negativity surrounding RTX but the truth is 99% of those peoples are simply ignorants who ignore what this technology represents or simply find whatever reason to hate on Nvidia cause it's trending , so yeah im that surprised after all !

Real time raytracing is so computational expensive that everyone with half a brain cell will understand that simply the fact Nvidia has managed to put the computational power of a render farm in a single GPU is already a HUGE achievement !

Everyone raising the graphical quality in a given game won't be surprised to see his FPS drop so why are peoples surprised when this happens with RTX considering we are talking about a massive leap forward in graphical fidelity ? This is a revolution and as with every revolution you have to give time to things to settle down and mature . Things will only get better !
Posted on Reply
#55
londiste
RH92 said:
Everyone raising the graphical quality in a given game won't be surprised to see his FPS drop so why are peoples surprised when this happens with RTX considering we are talking about a massive leap forward in graphical fidelity ?
@btarunr, @W1zzard, please include screenshots of different DXR settings highlighting (or at least trying to highlight) differences in the eventual article about DXR and its performance.
Posted on Reply
#56
INSTG8R
RH92 said:
I would like to be surprised by the negativity surrounding RTX but the truth is 99% of those peoples are simply ignorants who ignore what this technology represents or simply find whatever reason to hate on Nvidia cause it's trending , so yeah im that surprised after all !

Real time raytracing is so computational expensive that everyone with half a brain cell will understand that simply the fact Nvidia has managed to put the computational power of a render farm in a single GPU is already a HUGE achievement !

Everyone raising the graphical quality in a given game won't be surprised to see his FPS drop so why are peoples surprised when this happens with RTX considering we are talking about a massive leap forward in graphical fidelity ? This is a revolution and as with every revolution you have to give time to things to settle down and mature . Things will only get better !
When it turns a 4K capable card into a barely 1080p card to use it. It’s not really impressive and shows it’s not ready for prime time.
Posted on Reply
#57
Vya Domus
[XC
Oj101, post: 3941740, member: 102321"]

Calling RTX anything less than revolutionary is an insult to every engineer who worked on it. Just because you don't understand it or we don't have the software available to take full advantage of it doesn't take anything away from what it is.
Calling the work thier engineers have put in this useless would indeed be an insult.

Calling out the uselessness of the technology in our current context would be however a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Posted on Reply
#58
Hellfire
Jesus, with how some of ya'll are reacting you'd think the US was succeeding from the UK again.
Posted on Reply
#59
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
I thought it was understood RTX woulf make for horrible performance?
Posted on Reply
#60
RH92
londiste said:
@btarunr, @W1zzard, please include screenshots of different DXR settings highlighting (or at least trying to highlight) differences in the eventual article about DXR and its performance.
Im talking about RTX as a technology . Showing screenshots of BF5 will only tell you how well ( or badly ) DICE implemented this technology in their game .
Posted on Reply
#61
[XC] Oj101
INSTG8R said:
When it turns a 4K capable card into a barely 1080p card to use it. It’s not really impressive and shows it’s not ready for prime time.
There will never be a “right time” for the initial release as without the initial release there will be no further progress.
Vya Domus said:
Calling out the uselessness of the technology in our current context would be however a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
There is no current context as we do not have a SINGLE native ray tracing engine.

I really feel nobody replying read my full post with the way I'm repeating myself here.
Posted on Reply
#62
Aldain
[XC
Oj101, post: 3941740, member: 102321"]Maybe you should read my full post before replying, such as:









You too are judging an entire technology based on one game which was not designed for ray tracing.

Calling RTX anything less than revolutionary is an insult to every engineer who worked on it. Just because you don't understand it or we don't have the software available to take full advantage of it doesn't take anything away from what it is.
First of Ray Tracing is not an NVIDIA THING , ray tracing has been around for years now , second Turing as an ARCH is nothing more than a beta test , a very expensive beta test if you can get it not to DIE after a week or two hours depending on your luck , thirdly stop calling it RAY TRACING it is ONE ELEMENT of it which BTW was DOWNGRADED by DICE to get this SHAT performance in the first place. A DOWNGRADED ONE ELEMENT of Ray Trayinc turned a 4k/60 card into a 1080p /60 one.. (2080 and 2070 are DEAD FOR RAY TRACING) Enough with the apologetic behavior for Turing , it is what it is... Shat!
Posted on Reply
#63
londiste
Aldain said:
which BTW was DOWNGRADED by DICE to get this SHAT performance in the first place. A DOWNGRADED ONE ELEMENT of Ray Trayinc turned a 4k/60 card into a 1080p /60 one.. (2080 and 2070 are DEAD FOR RAY TRACING) Enough with the apologetic behavior for Turing , it is what it is... Shat!
Downgraded? Their tech demo ran reflections at 4 times the resolution of the previous rasterized implementation.
Posted on Reply
#64
INSTG8R
[XC
Oj101, post: 3941757, member: 102321"]There is no current context as we do not have a SINGLE native ray tracing engine.

I really feel nobody replying read my full post with the way I'm repeating myself here.
But you’re talking in what if’s and possibles. We are seeing it in action and it wasn’t like any of the previous showcases/demos were any different. The sacrifice in performance is far greater than the benefits right now.When the most powerful solution available can’t handle the most simple form of RT we can really call it a success can we?
Posted on Reply
#65
FreedomEclipse
~Technological Technocrat~
Aldain said:
Calling Turing a revolution is an insult to the entire PC gaming and tech spectrum..
Yes and no.... To have a revolution you have to start one. but revolutions can be crushed.


You cant snap your fingers and instantly have everything the way you want it to be. Change within the industry takes time and that has been proven so many times by developers who have not even bothered making new games for newer DX versions....

you must have a person or a group that desires change and push the initiative. Otherwise whats the point of technology if its not going to be moving forward?? we would still be going about our business on horse drawn carts and people running up and down streets delivering telegrams then be where we are today.

But once the movement gains traction and the industry starts to change, only then will we see the benefits of such technology....


And its not as if Nvidia is forcing anyone to buy an RTX card you have a choice. you can either support them by buying one or grab one of their older cards and sit on your hands till the next generation is ready and the industry has moved to adopt RTX features further.

I opted for a pre-owned 1080Ti. Nvidia arent going to send an elite hit squad after me because of the decision I made. I think the price of the 2080 and anything above it is ludicrous because Nvidia are trying to sell people a feature that doesnt actually exist yet and even it does exist in what little form it may take, it runs terribly.


Nvidia can put all its money behind RTX and try to get the industry to adopt but if they say no then theres not a lot they can do to influence change but by maybe buying or creative their own studio.


Nobody can predict if RTX will be a big thing in 5 years time. But there is no smoke without fire...

so shut up, sit down, strap in and put your helmet on.
Posted on Reply
#66
Vya Domus
Ravenmaster said:
AMD can’t get anywhere near that right now, which is where the real problem lies.
Nice way of trying to turn this into an AMD issue.

Everyone get your pitch and fork, it's because of that damn AMD you get to enjoy a cinematic sub 60 fps experience.

[XC
Oj101, post: 3941757, member: 102321"]There is no current context as we do not have a SINGLE native ray tracing engine.
Poor performance doesn't need much context. It's poor performance.
Posted on Reply
#67
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Hellfire said:
Jesus, with how some of ya'll are reacting you'd think the US was succeeding from the UK again.
THEY DID WHAT
Posted on Reply
#68
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
Close to finishing the article. Much of the instability is gone now. When it does work, RTX is magic. Look at the screenshot we added.
Posted on Reply
#69
londiste
btarunr said:
Much of the instability is gone now.
Any thoughts on what caused the instability?
Not that Battlefield V is the most stable thing in DX12 anyway :)
Posted on Reply
#70
[XC] Oj101
Aldain said:
First of Ray Tracing is not an NVIDIA THING , ray tracing has been around for years now , second Turing as an ARCH is nothing more than a beta test , a very expensive beta test if you can get it not to DIE after a week or two hours depending on your luck , thirdly stop calling it RAY TRACING it is ONE ELEMENT of it which BTW was DOWNGRADED by DICE to get this SHAT performance in the first place. A DOWNGRADED ONE ELEMENT of Ray Trayinc turned a 4k/60 card into a 1080p /60 one.. (2080 and 2070 are DEAD FOR RAY TRACING) Enough with the apologetic behavior for Turing , it is what it is... Shat!
I never said ray tracing is an NVIDIA thing. I've been using it for more than a decade, but not with gaming. Real time ray tracing as presented by RTX is very much an NVIDIA thing, however.

Once again, we don't have an engine written with native support for ray tracing so stop calling something ---- if we don't even have a semi-decent way of judging it. As a technology it is absolutely incredible, we just need implementation.
Posted on Reply
#71
Vya Domus
btarunr said:
When it does work, RTX is magic. Look at the screenshot we added.
To be honest had I not known that is ray traced, I would have been led to believe it's a simple screen space effect.
Posted on Reply
#72
RH92
INSTG8R said:
When it turns a 4K capable card into a barely 1080p card to use it. It’s not really impressive and shows it’s not ready for prime time.
Fist of all to make this conclusion you have to compare the graphical quality of 1080p with RTX enabled and 4K without RTX enabled . As far as i know we don't have material to make such a comparison so you can't make such a conclusion . Don't get me wrong , maybe in some early games the difference won't be worth the hassle , maybe on others it totaly will but as time goes real time ray tracing will for sure show superior results than rasterized rendering since the technology is simply superior .

You say that it is not ready for prime time , but how do you make it ready for prime time if nobody owns such a product ? Do you think game developpers will develope technology for a phantom product ?
The answer is obvious !
Posted on Reply
#73
PerfectWave
so playing an fps game with a 4k monitor at 1080p at 40-60fps LUL
Posted on Reply
#74
R0H1T
Shatun_Bear said:
What did the Tom's Hardware editor say again?

'Just buy one, why wait to experience ray tracing when you can have it now before all your friends'. Presumably he was talking about barely noticeable ray tracing 1080p gaming at 30 fps....
He also said something like ~ whether you'd prefer last moments (of life) flashing before your eyes in RT RT or not :wtf:
I mean seriously he must've been zombified at that moment :shadedshu:
Posted on Reply
#75
stimpy88
[XC
Oj101, post: 3941666, member: 102321"]The negativity surrounding RTX is unbelievable. Technologically, this is probably the biggest step up we’ve had in the history of the GeForce cards.

When the Voodoo was released was there widespread support for Glide? No. When the GeForce 256 was released was there widespread support for hardware T&L? No. When the GeForce 3 came out was there widespread support for programmable shaders? No. Why do you expect any different from this?

So far we do not have any games using an engine built from the ground up for ray tracing support. Ray tracing has been patched onto rasterization engines which were never designed for ray tracing.

Software needs to catch up to the hardware. Look at any launch title on console and compare the graphics to something a few years down the line. The hardware didn’t change, but the software caught up.

A friend of mine gave me a brilliant analogy last night. When a baby takes its first steps do the parents say “oh that’s crap, he’s so slow and unstable” or are the blown away that their little one is making such good progress?

The same will be true of ray tracing. For the first time we are looking at image generation in game differently and progress can only go one way. Wait until we have engines written with ray tracing in mind from the get go.

If you wanted all-wheel ABS in 1978, Mercedes offered it for around $ 32,000 BACK THEN. That was your only option. Now it’s found on almost every entry level car regardless of price. Give ray tracing a bit of time to mature. There will never be a “right time” for the initial release as without the initial release there will be no further progress.

Appreciate the technology for what it is and the revolutionary (as opposed to evolutionary) change it can bring.

So what if the RTX 2080 Ti gets 400 FPS instead of 180 FPS using traditional render methods? Both are beyond the level of perception of the human eye so it becomes an arbitrary figure. What we need is a way to drastically increase image quality without the performance hit we would have had prior to the RTX cards, which is now a reality. Don’t base the small increase in quality on a badly patched rasterization engine.

We now have the computational power that until not very long ago required a render farm packaged into a single GPU with a price tag that high end enthusiasts can afford. Show me one other graphics card that offers that?
Wow, you really like to write essays don’t you! Or is is a copy and paste from the nGreedia NPC software update?

Maybe you should work on trying to comprehend for yourself why people don’t like this situation before you write another marketing rant?
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