Tuesday, November 14th 2017

Battlefield V with RTX Initial Tests: Performance Halved

Having survived an excruciatingly slow patch update, we are testing "Battlefield V" with DirectX Ray-tracing and NVIDIA RTX enabled, across the GeForce RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 Ti, augmenting the RTX-on test data to our Battlefield V Performance Analysis article. We began testing with a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti graphics card with GeForce 416.94 WHQL drivers on Windows 10 1809. Our initial test results are shocking. With RTX enabled in the "ultra" setting, frame-rates dropped by close to 50% at 1080p.

These may look horrifying, given that at its highest setting, even an RTX 2080 Ti isn't able to manage 1080p 120 Hz. But all is not lost. DICE added granularity to RTX. You can toggle between off, low, medium, high, and ultra as "degrees" of RTX level of detail, under the "DXR ray-traced reflections quality" setting. We are currently working on 27 new data-points (each of the RTX 20-series graphics cards, at each level of RTX, and at each of the three resolutions we tested at).

Update: Our full performance analysis article is live now, including results for RTX 2070, 2080, 2080 Ti, each at RTX off/low/medium/high/ultra.
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180 Comments on Battlefield V with RTX Initial Tests: Performance Halved

#151
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
Th3pwn3r said:
It's as if the majority of people crapping on turing don't know that you don't have to ray tracing. You can still have a greatly improved 4k gaming experience by paying the premium price. If I bought a 2080ti I wouldn't care about ray tracing but the slight bump up in FPS @ 4k resolution.
This is the big feature nvidia has been trying to push.

turing peh, more like Turding.
Posted on Reply
#152
INSTG8R
Th3pwn3r said:
It's as if the majority of people crapping on turing don't know that you don't have to ray tracing. You can still have a greatly improved 4k gaming experience by paying the premium price. If I bought a 2080ti I wouldn't care about ray tracing but the slight bump up in FPS @ 4k resolution.
Yeah we take RTRT out of the equation it’s a good card but still overpriced and moerso now that we’ve seen is party piece in action.
Posted on Reply
#153
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
INSTG8R said:
Yeah we take RTRT out of the equation it’s a good card but still overpriced and moerso now that we’ve seen is party piece in action.
Yup nvidia more like ngreedia
Posted on Reply
#154
londiste
@eidairaman1 , @INSTG8R , you know this is getting really old already. You don't have to buy a Turing card nor play around with DXR.

Turings are not that bad of a value by itself. Except for 2080Ti which is flagship money, Turings are a bit better perf/$ than Pascals. I know everyone expected the usual thing of getting previous high end performance for midrange money but isn't it time to get over it already?

Especially since pretty much everyone with constant whining is not running Turing cards anyway.

/rant
Posted on Reply
#155
INSTG8R
londiste said:
@eidairaman1 , @INSTG8R , you know this is getting really old already. You don't have to buy a Turing card nor play around with DXR.

Turings are not that bad of a value by itself. Except for 2080Ti which is flagship money, Turings are a bit better perf/$ than Pascals. I know everyone expected the usual thing of getting previous high end performance for midrange money but isn't it time to get over it already?

Especially since pretty much everyone with constant whining is not running Turing cards anyway.

/rant
Loo:k it’s the most expensive flagship they’ve ever released advertisied as the most advanced they ever done with the capability to give us RTRT. Well, it’s expensive and advanced. I'm failing to see me not running one has anything to do with that. Defending it is no better when it’s “big feature” has proven to be just a proof of concept. That is where I take issue.
Posted on Reply
#156
londiste
Titan V was $2999 :D
2080Ti is most advanced, it has RTRT capability.
Everyone knew DXR comes with a considerable performance hit from day 1.

All the threads that are even remotely related to RTX - or even any GPU lately - will devolve into this useless crap these days.

Edit:
A larger problem is that DXR is standardized in DX12. There are very few DX12 games to begin with. Battlefield series has its own set of problems with DX12 with microstutters and it bing slow across the board. Shadow of Tomb Raider might be more interesting, its DX12 implementation is one of the best (next to Sniper Elite 4 and possibly Hitman) and it is a single-player game where eyecandy could be justifiable.
Posted on Reply
#157
ikeke
But..."it just works"..?

;)
/s
Posted on Reply
#158
INSTG8R
londiste said:
Titan V was $2999 :D
2080Ti is most advanced, it has RTRT capability.
Everyone knew DXR comes with a considerable performance hit from day 1.

All the threads that are even remotely related to RTX - or even any GPU lately - will devolve into this useless crap these days.

Edit:
A larger problem is that DXR is standardized in DX12. There are very few DX12 games to begin with. Battlefield series has its own set of problems with DX12 with microstutters and it bing slow across the board. Shadow of Tomb Raider might be more interesting, its DX12 implementation is one of the best (next to Sniper Elite 4 and possibly Hitman) and it is a single-player game where eyecandy could be justifiable.
Let’s just leave out Titan ;) ITuring has achieved proof of concept. It can only get better with better hardware like any new tech.
Posted on Reply
#159
intelzen
it is not just halved, it is halved on LOW! on ultra it is x0.3...
Posted on Reply
#160
bajs11
londiste said:
Titan V was $2999 :D
2080Ti is most advanced, it has RTRT capability.
Everyone knew DXR comes with a considerable performance hit from day 1.

All the threads that are even remotely related to RTX - or even any GPU lately - will devolve into this useless crap these days.

Edit:
A larger problem is that DXR is standardized in DX12. There are very few DX12 games to begin with. Battlefield series has its own set of problems with DX12 with microstutters and it bing slow across the board. Shadow of Tomb Raider might be more interesting, its DX12 implementation is one of the best (next to Sniper Elite 4 and possibly Hitman) and it is a single-player game where eyecandy could be justifiable.
you do know that the rtx 2080ti which is a card that was suppose to replace the gtx 1080ti was released with a 60% higher msrp
the gtx 1080Ti was released with the same msrp or close to as the gtx 980ti and offered some 60% better performance
TitanV is like Quadro, not meant for gaming
Posted on Reply
#161
Th3pwn3r
INSTG8R said:
Loo:k it’s the most expensive flagship they’ve ever released advertisied as the most advanced they ever done with the capability to give us RTRT. Well, it’s expensive and advanced. I'm failing to see me not running one has anything to do with that. Defending it is no better when it’s “big feature” has proven to be just a proof of concept. That is where I take issue.
Let's all be honest. If the 2080ti was selling at $800 everyone would be going insane and buying them all up because of the performance is THE BEST. The only real problem is they're not $800. They're ridiculously overpriced. People are acting like this is a bigger failure than Vega which in my opinion it is not. However, I am in agreement that marketing of Turing was awful at best. The hate here is comical though, if the 2080ti drops under $950 I bet all these haters will be running to buy them up. I would upgrade in all honesty, 5-10FPS @ 4k is worth it to me
Posted on Reply
#162
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
Th3pwn3r said:
Let's all be honest. If the 2080ti was selling at $800 everyone would be going insane and buying them all up because of the performance is THE BEST. The only real problem is they're not $800. They're ridiculously overpriced. People are acting like this is a bigger failure than Vega which in my opinion it is not. However, I am in agreement that marketing of Turing was awful at best. The hate here is comical though, if the 2080ti drops under $950 I bet all these haters will be running to buy them up. I would upgrade in all honesty, 5-10FPS @ 4k is worth it to me
800 is still ridiculously priced...
Posted on Reply
#163
bajs11
agreed.
People keep forgetting that the gtx 1080ti was launched at 699 usd the same as the gtx 980ti while offering some 60% better performance
the rtx 2080ti only offers 30% improvement while launched with a msrp 85% higher than its predecessor
Posted on Reply
#164
intelzen
Th3pwn3r said:
Let's all be honest. If the 2080ti was selling at $800 everyone would be going insane and buying them all up because of the performance is THE BEST. The only real problem is they're not $800. They're ridiculously overpriced. People are acting like this is a bigger failure than Vega which in my opinion it is not. However, I am in agreement that marketing of Turing was awful at best. The hate here is comical though, if the 2080ti drops under $950 I bet all these haters will be running to buy them up. I would upgrade in all honesty, 5-10FPS @ 4k is worth it to me
you are thinking as if the huge price is only minor inconvenience to us? like - if there are a good product - it is good product - period, no ifs or buts, and no one should cares about price? using your logic - can I walk in a store and select some good products and walk out with those, without paying? I do not want to pay, but that is only minor inconvenience here. I mean those are good products and I will make good use of those, why would anyone else see problem with that?
btw what about future, lets say 1-2 years forward, next release - rtx 3080 ti lets say another +30% better than rtx 2080 ti, and price 2000$, but who cares it is 30% better - so a good product period and we should be happy about it? I would, because I would walk out of store for 0,00 with that beast :D
Posted on Reply
#165
Vayra86
Th3pwn3r said:
Let's all be honest. If the 2080ti was selling at $800 everyone would be going insane and buying them all up because of the performance is THE BEST. The only real problem is they're not $800. They're ridiculously overpriced. People are acting like this is a bigger failure than Vega which in my opinion it is not. However, I am in agreement that marketing of Turing was awful at best. The hate here is comical though, if the 2080ti drops under $950 I bet all these haters will be running to buy them up. I would upgrade in all honesty, 5-10FPS @ 4k is worth it to me
Yeah no, those ideas only work on the internet where everyone and his dog is telling the world they are throwing money at their screen. Its the same as that TPU poll where '25% was either gaming on or going to game on 4K'. They aren't, and they aren't going to anytime soon.

Price is a primary concern despite all the marketing and hype we let ourselves get fooled with. An enthusiast forum is the worst possible place to gauge the sentiment with regards to price.

Ironically an enthusiast forum is also the only place you will find apologists for this horrible business practice Nvidia is employing with Turing. We're paying a high price for RTX and if we want to upgrade, we literally have no way to avoid it. And then people here happily say 'look, theý're selling cards, its going well!'... :roll: Typical situation of 'in the land of the blind'.

I've said this before, and I will say it again: you have a real option of NOT BUYING something. Skip a gen, and you will find RTX to be far more reasonably priced either this gen or the next one. Thát is my main motvation for resisting this, and believe it or not, that sentiment does matter, even if some fools buy it anyway. Another possible advantage is that more effort will be put into optimization and quality of the experience, because that is another way to increase value.

If you really want RTRT to happen, now is the time to step on the brakes hard and force an adjustment. Turing's implementation is simply not viable.
Posted on Reply
#166
dozenfury
Thanks to TPU for the performance #'s. This is a great example of why unbiased performance benchmarks are so important.

My takeaway from the performance numbers is that it's very clear RT simply isn't ready for prime-time use yet. For me 2k and 60fps for PC gaming is a minimum acceptable threshold, and I'd bet the majority of PC gamers would say the same or even a higher minimum. And looking at the numbers the only 20xx card that can even do above 60fps at 2k with RT on is the 2080ti, and even that is only with RT set to low. ANY other scenario at 2k is below 60fps with RT enabled. Basically, this is a repeat of NV pushing 4k gaming a few years ago with the 980ti's when the tech really wasn't there yet, so people spent lots of money only to find out that 4k gaming then meant about 20fps which wasn't practical at all. And at 4k with RT even on low the 2080ti can't crack 50fps. Cool tech, but it's definitely a generation or maybe even 2 away from being work considering.
Posted on Reply
#167
Th3pwn3r
eidairaman1 said:
800 is still ridiculously priced...
I disagree, $800 isn't a ridiculous price, plenty of people paid a lot more than that for 1080ti cards. If you really feel that way you can just buy older generations of cards for less. Unless you must have the absolute best then you have to pay a premium. There are plenty of people who spare no expense. An example being audiophiles, $1300 for a set of CAR SPEAKERS. It's silly but those companies making them know their market exists, Nvidia banks on those kind of customers right now it seems.
intelzen said:
you are thinking as if the huge price is only minor inconvenience to us? like - if there are a good product - it is good product - period, no ifs or buts, and no one should cares about price? using your logic - can I walk in a store and select some good products and walk out with those, without paying? I do not want to pay, but that is only minor inconvenience here. I mean those are good products and I will make good use of those, why would anyone else see problem with that?
btw what about future, lets say 1-2 years forward, next release - rtx 3080 ti lets say another +30% better than rtx 2080 ti, and price 2000$, but who cares it is 30% better - so a good product period and we should be happy about it? I would, because I would walk out of store for 0,00 with that beast :D
You might want to read my post again several times.
Vayra86 said:
Yeah no, those ideas only work on the internet where everyone and his dog is telling the world they are throwing money at their screen. Its the same as that TPU poll where '25% was either gaming on or going to game on 4K'. They aren't, and they aren't going to anytime soon.

Price is a primary concern despite all the marketing and hype we let ourselves get fooled with. An enthusiast forum is the worst possible place to gauge the sentiment with regards to price.

Ironically an enthusiast forum is also the only place you will find apologists for this horrible business practice Nvidia is employing with Turing. We're paying a high price for RTX and if we want to upgrade, we literally have no way to avoid it. And then people here happily say 'look, theý're selling cards, its going well!'... :roll: Typical situation of 'in the land of the blind'.

I've said this before, and I will say it again: you have a real option of NOT BUYING something. Skip a gen, and you will find RTX to be far more reasonably priced either this gen or the next one. Thát is my main motvation for resisting this, and believe it or not, that sentiment does matter, even if some fools buy it anyway. Another possible advantage is that more effort will be put into optimization and quality of the experience, because that is another way to increase value.

If you really want RTRT to happen, now is the time to step on the brakes hard and force an adjustment. Turing's implementation is simply not viable.
I totally agree, I play in 4k off of my 1080 and also have a 1080ti, I would like more FPS BUT the price has to come down a bit for me, I'm not desperate and I'm not wanting things for free either. I have $6000 into my car audio system but even I have my boundaries.
Posted on Reply
#168
moproblems99
I don't have any intent on 4k either, I just don't game enough to justify all the expense.

Th3pwn3r said:
I totally agree, I play in 4k off of my 1080 and also have a 1080ti, I would like more FPS BUT the price has to come down a bit for me, I'm not desperate and I'm not wanting things for free either. I have $6000 into my car audio system but even I have my boundaries.
Do you have a long commute? How much time do you spend in your car?

Edit: Not judging, just curious as what would drive $6k into a system mostly used for driving to and from work.
Posted on Reply
#169
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
Th3pwn3r said:
I disagree, $800 isn't a ridiculous price, plenty of people paid a lot more than that for 1080ti cards. If you really feel that way you can just buy older generations of cards for less. Unless you must have the absolute best then you have to pay a premium. There are plenty of people who spare no expense. An example being audiophiles, $1300 for a set of CAR SPEAKERS. It's silly but those companies making them know their market exists, Nvidia banks on those kind of customers right now it seems.


You might want to read my post again several times.


I totally agree, I play in 4k off of my 1080 and also have a 1080ti, I would like more FPS BUT the price has to come down a bit for me, I'm not desperate and I'm not wanting things for free either. I have $6000 into my car audio system but even I have my boundaries.
My 290 VaporX bear in mind second to the best card (290X VaporX/8GB) was 460 in 2014. My 9700 pro all in wonder in 2002 was 400.

So the prices are still ridiculous over 500
Posted on Reply
#170
Blo3der-Kuh
Many people said "it was to be expected, that RTX effects had a high performance hit". To be honest, I did not. Because those RT cores are just there to process those RTX effects, so I would have expected a few percentage lost for the overhead, but not double digit numbers. To me it looks like either DICE did a very bad job at the DXR optimization, or NVIDIA has balanced those RTX cards completely wrong. As Techspot points out:
It is interesting to note across these tests that we are being RT core limited here. The higher the resolution, the higher the performance hit using the Ultra DXR mode, to the point where playing at 4K is more than 4x faster with DXR off. This also plays out when we spot checked power consumption: the cards were running at consistently lower power with DXR on, because the regular CUDA cores are being underutilized at such a low framerate.
Source

While the RTX effects are impressive, to me it looks more like a tech demo. NVIDIA will have to considerably increase the RT core count (like double or triple), or the technique has to get optimized a lot before this will become a real game changer. Also as a buyer of an RTX 2070 (which I am not), I would be rather disappointed, since those meager 36 RT cores make DXR almost useless.

Still I am excited to see what other upcoming games or DXR patches will bring to the table.

(Please ignore this post, if all of this has already been discussed before, I did not read all 7 pages before posting)
Posted on Reply
#171
Fluffmeister
londiste said:
Titan V was $2999 :D
2080Ti is most advanced, it has RTRT capability.
Everyone knew DXR comes with a considerable performance hit from day 1.

All the threads that are even remotely related to RTX - or even any GPU lately - will devolve into this useless crap these days.

Edit:
A larger problem is that DXR is standardized in DX12. There are very few DX12 games to begin with. Battlefield series has its own set of problems with DX12 with microstutters and it bing slow across the board. Shadow of Tomb Raider might be more interesting, its DX12 implementation is one of the best (next to Sniper Elite 4 and possibly Hitman) and it is a single-player game where eyecandy could be justifiable.
Hey, at the end of the day it's still cheaper than the R9 295X2 which launched at a whooping $1500:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_295_X2/

And as that was basically crossfire on a stick, poor or lacking crossfire support meant the card couldn't shine in every title either.

Just some perspective for the current prices.
Posted on Reply
#172
Ravenmaster
Vya Domus said:
Nice way of trying to turn this into an AMD issue.

Everyone get your pitch and fork, it's because of that damn AMD you get to enjoy a cinematic sub 60 fps experience.



Poor performance doesn't need much context. It's poor performance.
Indirectly it is. If AMD did have a faster card than the RTX 2080 and another one that could beat the RTX 2080Ti then nvidia would be forced to sell cheaper. I don't know why you can't grasp that. Nvidia is price gouging because they have no competition.
Posted on Reply
#173
Th3pwn3r
moproblems99 said:
I don't have any intent on 4k either, I just don't game enough to justify all the expense.



Do you have a long commute? How much time do you spend in your car?

Edit: Not judging, just curious as what would drive $6k into a system mostly used for driving to and from work.
My commute right now is about an hour each way. My system price also includes the proper charging system, 270 amp alternator, 2/0 awg power cables and Digital Designs products, basically higher end stuff but you can do it for less. Of course I did all the work, labor would have been thousands of dollars.

eidairaman1 said:
My 290 VaporX bear in mind second to the best card (290X VaporX/8GB) was 460 in 2014. My 9700 pro all in wonder in 2002 was 400.

So the prices are still ridiculous over 500
Your argument is moot in my opinion. I drive an older Honda Civic at times but could buy a brand new Corvette, both will get me to work.

Ravenmaster said:
Indirectly it is. If AMD did have a faster card than the RTX 2080 and another one that could beat the RTX 2080Ti then nvidia would be forced to sell cheaper. I don't know why you can't grasp that. Nvidia is price gouging because they have no competition.
A lot of us get that. People want Nvidia to forget that business comes first. It would be nice if the prices were better but they don't care about us that much. If you buy something from your friend you probably get a good deal, we're not friends or Nvidia so we get charged whatever they can come up with that will work for them.
Posted on Reply
#174
moproblems99
Ravenmaster said:
I don't know why you can't grasp that. Nvidia is price gouging because they have no competition
That is simply not true. A GPU is not a required purchase. Nvidia is charging that much because people are buying them. Even if no other manufacturer produced GPUs, if no one bought them, the price goes down. The fact of the matter is, as long as people are buying, Nvidia is going to test how far they can go. Frankly, I hope AMD slots in just under and starts reaping in the money to fill their coffers as well.

Until people make a decision of when too much is too much, prices will continue to rise.
Posted on Reply
#175
Xzibit
Blo3der-Kuh said:
Many people said "it was to be expected, that RTX effects had a high performance hit". To be honest, I did not. Because those RT cores are just there to process those RTX effects, so I would have expected a few percentage lost for the overhead, but not double digit numbers. To me it looks like either DICE did a very bad job at the DXR optimization, or NVIDIA has balanced those RTX cards completely wrong. As Techspot points out:

Source

While the RTX effects are impressive, to me it looks more like a tech demo. NVIDIA will have to considerably increase the RT core count (like double or triple), or the technique has to get optimized a lot before this will become a real game changer. Also as a buyer of an RTX 2070 (which I am not), I would be rather disappointed, since those meager 36 RT cores make DXR almost useless.

Still I am excited to see what other upcoming games or DXR patches will bring to the table.
RTX itself (very low sample rate + denoiser) is the optimization that is required for "Real-Time". Its the same as if you took your favorite renderer (blender) and used 1spp to render with a denoiser. Its very low quality but gets the job done as quick as possible.

The optimization has to come in making those RT cores better and adding more of them. Just adding more RT cores right now will take up too much die space for not much benefit like the scaling from 2070 to 2080 TI. They need to be multiple times better x10+ so they wont be bogged down if games use more then one RTX effect.
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