Tuesday, May 14th 2019

Intel to Move 3D XPoint Memory Manufacturing to China

With its IMFlash Technology joint-venture with Micron coming to an end, Intel is finding itself with manufacturing challenges for its memory businesses. The company holds IP to both 3D NAND flash and its own invention 3D XPoint memory, which it believes will succeed NAND flash in performance and endurance. The company is now mulling to move manufacturing of 3D XPoint to a foundry in China. Intel currently manufactures this exotic new memory at an IMFlash Technology facility in Utah. Intel's $1.3 billion stake-sale to Micron pushes it out of this facility.

Under the terms of the stake-sale, Micron allows Intel to continue to manufacture 3D XPoint at IMFlash for a year, after which it must manufacture it elsewhere. The transfer of stake is scheduled for October 31st, which means Intel's manufacturing in Utah will continue till October 2020. In the meantime, Intel is planning to move manufacturing to its Fab 68, located in Dalian, China. Intel is now manufacturing 1st and 2nd generation 3D Xpoint, while its 3rd generation is under development, and was earlier slated for initial manufacturing at Intel's Fab 11X in New Mexico, USA. It's not known if Intel has changed these plans. 3rd generation 3D XPoint hits mass-production in 2021.
Source: AnandTech
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35 Comments on Intel to Move 3D XPoint Memory Manufacturing to China

#1
my_name_is_earl
I see China taking over Hollywood, the entire household goods, majority of car company production, all electronics. But oh no, they're not taking over the world at all. Relax, here's a free USB dongle.
Posted on Reply
#2
Caring1
Increased tariffs might yet see them move to New Mexico.

my_name_is_earl said:

I see China taking over Hollywood, the entire household goods, majority of car company production, all electronics. But oh no, they're not taking over the world at all. Relax, here's a free USB dongle.
You seem a little confused, take a Bex and have a lay down, if symptoms persist see a doctor.
Posted on Reply
#3
Prima.Vera
They should be prepared to have their IP stolen within an year ;)
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#4
GinoLatino
So other companies moves out of China in fear of US trade war... but Intel does the opposite... mkay!
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#5
stimpy88
A very odd decision...

1.) Giving such advanced tech to the Chinese government is an interesting business decision, to say the least...
2.) Have Intel not heard about that little minor trade war thingy that's about to kick off big time?
Posted on Reply
#6
lynx29
GinoLatino said:

So other companies moves out of China in fear of US trade war... but Intel does the opposite... mkay!
I think people, particularly stock investors have been too bullish on Intel for too long. Zen is going to dominate with this next release, not only consumer sector but also big data and server sector, so many massive investments into EPYC from supercomputers to big players such as Dell. Intel is in deep trouble in the coming years, everything is fine now, they can float on the monopoly they had there for awhile, but the world is a changing. I see Intel stock price being almost garbage within 10 years.

AMD will prob cap out this year at around $50 a share. I wish I had bought AMD when it was $1-2 a share, AMD and the Zen design is in it for the long haul. The third release of Zen this summer should have all the kinks worked out.
Posted on Reply
#7
bug
Prima.Vera said:

They should be prepared to have their IP stolen within an year ;)
See what misinformation does to you? If you want to do business in China, you're required by law to transfer the know how over there. There's no stealing involved. Just the inability to reciprocate, because China doesn't have much IP you'd be interested in.

The thing is, I'd love to see XPoint's potential realized sooner rather than later. And this split from Micron + shifting manufacturing around doesn't seem to be helping.
Posted on Reply
#8
R0H1T
bug said:

If you want to do business in China, you're required by law to transfer the know how over there.
Which is basically legalized theft, besides there are other reports which suggest the lengths China has gone to in order for them to make nearly everything indigenously.
Posted on Reply
#9
bug
R0H1T said:

Which is basically legalized theft, besides there are other reports which suggest the lengths China has gone to in order for them to make nearly everything indigenously.
Can you really blame them? The US has emerged as a superpower after it grew an industry so productive they could throw out equipment to win two world wars.

China is copying even that: they're growing industrial prowess at any cost. Should North Korea, Iran or some other party spark a fuse, China will get their moment.
Posted on Reply
#10
SoNic67
I don't know why Intel built a fab there. I have been inside of one of their fans in Chandler, AZ and it looks deserted, barely any humans, all is robotized. So costs with personnel must be minimal.
Just greed... probably China paid off some of Intel's CEOs. Or blackmailed them.
Posted on Reply
#11
bug
SoNic67 said:

I don't know why Intel built a fab there. I have been inside of one of their fans in Chandler, AZ and it looks deserted, barely any humans, all is robotized. So costs with personnel must be minimal.
Just greed... probably China paid off some of Intel's CEOs. Or blackmailed them.
Staff is probably not the primary cost, there's also the price of sourcing fab's inputs and such. Tough, the more automated the plant, the more skillful personnel is needed to keep it running.
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#12
JaymondoGB
Why on earth would you want to hand that tech to the Chinese ?, I thought because of IP releated issues, the world was getting ready for Post China
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#13
kabarsa
R0H1T said:

Which is basically legalized theft, besides there are other reports which suggest the lengths China has gone to in order for them to make nearly everything indigenously.
It's not a theft. It's just a usual protection measures related to foreign investments and it's used by many countries. It's used to ensure that both sides can benefit from these investments, in other case it opens up the possibility for investing side to simply exploit human resources and natural resources of other country and take their business elsewhere after that or simply exploit it until it turns into some third world banana republic abused by corporate machine in order to make it's resources even cheaper. No one forces Intel or other corporate entities to invest in China. This is just basic economy.
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#14
SoNic67
It is theft. No other country requires the investors to surrender their IP.
Yeah nobody forces. Only the greed of CEOs and their yes men.
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#15
R0H1T
kabarsa said:

It's not a theft. It's just a usual protection measures related to foreign investments and it's used by many countries. It's used to ensure that both sides can benefit from these investments, in other case it opens up the possibility for investing side to simply exploit human resources and natural resources of other country and take their business elsewhere after that or simply exploit it until it turns into some third world banana republic abused by corporate machine in order to make it's resources even cheaper. No one forces Intel or other corporate entities to invest in China. This is just basic economy.
I don't remember any other country forcing tech transfer as a precondition to accessing their (domestic) market. This is by no means fair & certainly not a "safety" feature! Pretty sure Siemens & many other German companies are seething after handing over their designs like Velaro, now China not only makes Maglev (trains) for themselves but also exports them to the detriment of Siemens :ohwell:
Posted on Reply
#16
Chomiq
Intel's got FAB's building in US, Ireland and Israel, two of those matter very much to the current POTUS. He won't touch Intel.
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#17
unikin
R0H1T said:

I don't remember any other country forcing tech transfer as a precondition to accessing their (domestic) market. This is by no means fair & certain not a "safety" feature! Pretty sure Siemens & many other German companies are seething after handing over their designs of Velaro, now China not only makes Maglev trains for themselves but also exports them :ohwell:
R&D theft was always part of a game. Old Greeks learned from Egyptians, Romans mainly from Greeks, North Africa and Middle East from Greeks and Romans, Europe in "dark" middle ages regained forgotten knowledge from European Muslims on Iberia peninsula and southern Italy, US "stole" know how from Britain, Germany, France. Japan, South Korea stole knowledge from US and now in globalized World China is stealing knowledge from everybody. It's how the Civilization as a whole progresses. Patents and taxes can slow it, but not stop it.
Posted on Reply
#18
R0H1T
unikin said:

It's how the Civilization as a whole progresses.
Really ~ need I remind you of Tibet, reeducation camps, CCP claims over SCS, Senkaku islands, CPEC among so many others? That's not called progress in my eyes!
Posted on Reply
#19
unikin
R0H1T said:

Really ~ need I remind you of Tibet, reeducation camps, CCP claims over SCS, Senkaku islands, CPEC among so many others? That's not called progress in my eyes!
Afganistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen … Guantanamo, 144 drone strikes per day, unrecognition of International Criminal Court (ICC), unrecognition of IPCC, current sabotaging and bullying of Venezuela, Iran… Is that called human progress in your eyes?
Posted on Reply
#20
R0H1T
So you're comparing mainly wars with what China is doing today? Your argument in defense of China is ~ this is how bad the US is, so they can't possibly be any worse :rolleyes:
unikin said:

International Criminal Court (ICC), unrecognition of IPCC
Frankly ICC is useless IMO, IPCC is a policy reversal by the current US admin. Conveniently, of course this is the same argument used by China ~ hey look at the big (bad) US.

I'm not defending the US in any of these matters, however your defense is laughable to say the least. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Posted on Reply
#21
unikin
R0H1T said:

So you're comparing wars with what China is doing today? So your argument in defense of China is ~ this is how bad the US is, so they can't possibly be any worse :rolleyes:
Frankly ICC is useless IMO, IPCC is a policy reversal by the current US admin. Conveniently, of course this is the same argument used by China ~ hey look at the big (bad) US.

I'm not defending the US in any of these matters, however your defense is laughable to say the least.
IPCC useless? Tell that to your children or grand children when they'll try to grow enough food not to starve to death in vein.
ICC useless? Of course when you're afraid your army officers and politicians might be charged of war crimes.
Let's face if, China has stopped playing by Western rules and we're scared of that. If we like it or not China will become the largest economy in the World very soon. With that also comes power. It will be the dominant force od South East Asia and larger. If climate change or nuclear winter don't kill us all before.
Posted on Reply
#22
lZKoce
Prima.Vera said:
They should be prepared to have their IP stolen within an year ;)
That's oversimplified IMO. The sum of capital, know-how etc. makes up the "barrier of entry" to any business. IP's alone doesn't grant you hop-in-the-game-ticket. Some businesses are "protected" by the very nature of the venture. You have two main plane-building companies, two main CPU and GPU companies. I don't think that IP's alone will make China the next guys to enter the CPU arena, but I might be wrong of course.
Posted on Reply
#23
R0H1T
I said ICC (not IPCC) is useless, learn to read first. What good is the ICC (or UN) if it can't prevent genocides or bring policy reversals in how countries deal with matters of race, religion, ethnic cleansing et al?
The ICC is just a show pony as far as I'm concerned.
unikin said:

China has stopped playing by Western rules and we're scared of that.
China never played by any rules, you're delusional if you think they ever did.
Posted on Reply
#24
unikin
R0H1T said:

I said ICC (not IPCC) is useless, learn to read first. What good is the ICC (or UN) if it can't prevent genocides or bring policy reversals in how countries deal with matters of race, religion, ethnic cleansing et al?
The ICC is just a show pony as far as I'm concerned.
China never played by any rules, you're delusional if you think they ever did.
ICC has preventive role. If politicians would live in fear that their decisions could lead to being charged of war crimes and locked up for life, they'd think twice before committing war crime atrocities.
China has played by western rules since opening up so it could become a member of WTO, SWIFT network etc. But now they say F... it, we won't play your game, we're too big to be sanctioned anyway. Who can blame them with all the craziness happening on the international stage?
Posted on Reply
#25
kabarsa
R0H1T said:

I don't remember any other country forcing tech transfer as a precondition to accessing their (domestic) market. This is by no means fair & certainly not a "safety" feature! Pretty sure Siemens & many other German companies are seething after handing over their designs like Velaro, now China not only makes Maglev (trains) for themselves but also exports them to the detriment of Siemens :ohwell:
SoNic67 said:

It is theft. No other country requires the investors to surrender their IP.
Yeah nobody forces. Only the greed of CEOs and their yes men.
Forming merger entities is a pretty normal thing, as well as the requirements to educate local personal and some know how sharing. Saying it's a theft is a pretty strange point of view on international trade and investment.
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