Friday, June 7th 2019

MSI CEO: AMD Plans to Stop Being the Value Alternative, X570 Motherboards to be Expensive

MSI's CEO Charles Chiang, quoted by Tom's Hardware at COMPUTEX 2019, laid out what we were already seeing with motherboard designs from all vendors of AMD's X570-based motherboards: pricing is likely increasing across the board, and AMD's market positioning won't be of the alternative, lower-value brand.

As quoted, Chiang said that ""Lots of people ask me, what do you think about today's AMD? I say today's AMD is completely different company compared to two, three, five years ago. They have nice technology and they are there to put the higher spec with the reasonable pricing. But right now they say, "Hey Charles, let's push to marketing to the higher [end]. So let's sell higher-pricing motherboards, higher-spec motherboards, and let's see what will happen in the market. So I don't think that AMD is the company that wants to sell low cost here, low cost there." Which does make sense: AMD isn't in the position of the underdog anymore -at least technology and product-portfolio wise when it comes to consumer CPUs. With better products, comes a desire for higher margins, and a change in direction for a company that was basically forced to almost cut itself out of the market in terms of profits with its previous, non-competitive CPU designs.
Efforts to survive on AMD's part have been immense, with the company severely tightening its belt in all fields, including R&D, in the times leading to the launch of their previous-gen architecture, Bulldozer. And with the way that one architecture panned out in the market, AMD didn't really find a way to dig itself out of the trenches. No like it has with Zen: a lithe, small, highly efficient design that allowed the company to not only make up lost ground on technology and CPU performance but also on profits. That the company wants to price its products in higher segments, alongside their performance improvements and competitiveness against Intel's slow-moving lineup, makes all sorts of sense from a business perspective.
Charles Chiang said that there a multitude of factors contributing to the higher pricing of X570 motherboards: that AMD is planning to charge more for each chipset (compared to the ASMedia-designed X470), but also because of the integration of PCIe 4.0. PCIe 4.0 support has meant a higher-TDp chipset (which has required a throwback to the days of old with active cooling over AMD's chipset, which has increased its TDp up to 10 W compared to the previous gen's X470's 3 W); and because PCIe switches are another best entirely in terms of complexity and power delivery capabilities. All of these add cost, and this cost will end up being passed on to end users (at least partially): as it always is. Source: Tom's Hardware
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151 Comments on MSI CEO: AMD Plans to Stop Being the Value Alternative, X570 Motherboards to be Expensive

#52
cucker tarlson
is it really x570 is gonna be expensive or is it more like x570 is gonna get more ridiculously expensive high-end boards ? we'll see.
z390 has a plethora of premium high end boards but at the same time you can get z390 gaming x with a 10 phase vrm and keep the costs reasonable.
Posted on Reply
#53
Metroid
silentbogo said:

Where did you get 11W estimate? AFAIK the only number I've heard was no less than 15W, and given the thermal density of x570 you'll probably need an active cooling system even at the most optimistic TDP.
Check x570 tdp table on the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets

"AMD's addition of PCIe 4.0 support for its platform, and whipping up the PCIe 4.0 Radeon RX5700 and fostering the NVMe SSD ecosystem, are powerful value-adds. As the first PCIe 4.0 platform, Ryzen does offer something you can't get anywhere else -- access to leading platform I/O performance. That does come at the cost of higher power consumption; we're told the chipset sucks down 11-15W compared to the previous-gen's 3.5W with PCIe 3.0. That requires the active cooling via fans that we've seen on motherboards here at the show, but we're sure that many enthusiasts won't mind the return of chipset fans if they get leading throughput in exchange. "

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-third-gen-ryzen-7nm-launch-intel-cpu,39449.html

TDP table

x570 = 11w
x470 = 4.8w
x370 = 6.8w
b450 = 4.8w
b350 = 6.8w

Here is hoping, some motherboard manufacturer releases a heatsink only like 1366 used to.
Posted on Reply
#54
silentbogo
Metroid said:

Check x570 tdp table on the link below.
I've learned to double-check wikipedia. Whoever added those numbers only used Anandtech as a reference, who also likes to pull their numbers out of the ass occasionally.
Here's where it came from:
This is different to the 15W being reported - it appears AMD is making two variants of the chipset, with the 11W on consumer boards and the 15W for enterprise, with the 15W having more PCIe lanes.
No sources, no further explanations, and so far not a single other source to support this claim.
If you google "AMD x570 11W", you'll be quick to notice that the first two pages are tech sites monkey-quoting each other with this number, without any tangible sources or validation.
Posted on Reply
#55
Mamya3084
Waiting on threadripper 3... hopefully October, since that's when they usually launch.
Posted on Reply
#56
Metroid
silentbogo said:

I've learned to double-check wikipedia. Whoever added those numbers only used Anandtech as a reference, who also likes to pull their numbers out of the ass occasionally.
Here's where it came from:

No sources, no further explanations, and so far not a single other source to support this claim.
If you google "AMD x570 11W", you'll be quick to notice that the first two pages are tech sites monkey-quoting each other with this number, without any tangible sources or validation.
Since there is nothing official on tdp, nothing much we can do than to wait for reviews. It might be even more than 15 watts.
Posted on Reply
#57
nemesis.ie
It will also depend on what it's doing, the max will be with 2 x PCIE4 NVME drives running at full tilt and maybe some network/USB at the same time.

Under normal load/bursting to secondary storage it should be a lot less - put the storage you need to be fast on the CPU lanes.

If you need more than 1 x fast drive and some "extra or larger or cheaper", it might be time to go to Threadripper or you won't be worried about a few watts from the chipset.

Does anyone actually have a power/heat to small fan RPM table? If the heatsink is well designed and the fan only needs to spin up to e.g. 600 rpm, it may not even be heard - assuming a good implementation.
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#58
Aldain
Here is the thing, IF ALL HIGH END X570 MOBO-S are like this, then AMD and the x570 AIB-s deserve every single cent they can get..

Remarkable amd board

Posted on Reply
#59
Metroid
nemesis.ie said:

Does anyone actually have a power/heat to small fan RPM table? If the heatsink is well designed and the fan only needs to spin up to e.g. 600 rpm, it may not even be heard - assuming a good implementation.
The only thing we know is 4x4 cm, normal case fans are 12x12 cm, for example, almost silent fans runs at 800 rpm on 12x12, so this has to be 3 times less, which means for this 4x4 cm fan to be almost silent then it needs 300 rpm or so. It can cool it, no problem, 15 watts, but the heatsink needs to be using the full area of it, which means 4x4 cm too or a tad bigger.

Aldain said:

Here is the thing, IF ALL HIGH END X570 MOBO-S are like this, then AMD and the x570 AIB-s deserve every single cent they can get..

Remarkable amd board
Well they need to justify the price somehow, expect that motherboard to cost > $400 usd. What is the point paying more than $400 for it and getting 100mhz more x b450 in overclocking, and the b450 cost $50. It can have billion phase vrm for that matter if it cant give a much much much much better overclocking than a $50 b450 is a no go for me. Back then people used to pay more for motherboards because those motherboards used to give a much much better overclocking than the cheap ones.
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#60
shmuck
Are the x570 boards supposed to be better at overclocking Ryzen 3000 and RAMs than x470? PCIe 4 is of 0 interest to me whatsoever so I wonder if x570 will be worth it with the price hike at all.
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#61
Metroid
shmuck said:

Are the x570 boards supposed to be better at overclocking Ryzen 3000 and RAMs than x470? PCIe 4 is of 0 interest to me whatsoever so I wonder if x570 will be worth it with the price hike at all.
Well, we don't know that yet, we are all assuming something here, my assumption is no, one might think --> "but this chipset was designed by amd inhouse and not asmedia, so it might be lot more overclocking friendly". I myself think a b450 that cost $50 will only be a tad inferior than the x570 on overclocking. Does the 4 to 20x more in price justifies it? only you can decide that.

Also, saving on the motherboard, money wise can be put on to buy a 3900x($499) instead of a 3700x($329). That is $170 usd difference. Better to spend on a better processor that will give you 33% more multithread performance and likely 4% in single thread than to spend that on a motherboard that will give you 1% in overclocking.
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#62
Xuper
If AMD sells cheap , make no mistake , THEY WILL LOSE! This needs to be end.
Posted on Reply
#63
Metroid
Pay attention to this video here, 5:40 minutes,
Posted on Reply
#64
Vayra86
ZoneDymo said:

Can you imagine Intel being the value option...
Its really quite simple, brand is irrelevant and performance / tech lead is worth a premium.

Its a real trend... ;)
Posted on Reply
#65
shmuck
Metroid said:

Well, we don't know that yet, we are all assuming something here, my assumption is no, one might think --> "but this chipset was designed by amd inhouse and not asmedia, so it might be lot more overclocking friendly". I myself think a b450 that cost $50 will only be a tad inferior than the x570 on overclocking. Does the 4 to 20x more in price justifies it? only you can decide that.

Also, saving on the motherboard, money wise can be put on to buy a 3900x($499) instead of a 3700x($329). That is $170 usd difference. Better to spend on a better processor that will give you 33% more multithread performance and likely 4% in single thread than to spend that on a motherboard that will give you 1% in overclocking.
Thanks for the B450 suggestion. I don't actually need the extra features of x?70 boards, so it's a shame that B550 will not be available from the get-go. Right now I'm weighing up 3800X and B450 Tomahawk/Carbon.
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#66
Metroid
They found a way to ditch the X570 chipset fan!



As if there was not a way to hehe, 1366 x58 is a good example of that.
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#67
turbogear
When I saw these new x570 board announcements and all the features they put in for example ASUS announcing Crosshair VIII Formula having waterblock, OLED display, dual ethernet with one being 5G and WIFI 6, I was already thinking wow these things are going to be expensive. o_O
My expectation for example for ASUS Formula is that it would be priced similar to or even higher than Intel version of ASUS Formula board.
Posted on Reply
#68
RH92
Aldain said:

Here is the thing, IF ALL HIGH END X570 MOBO-S are like this, then AMD and the x570 AIB-s deserve every single cent they can get..

1) As Buildzoid mentioned in the video this is the only X570 board with this kind of quality so that answers the IF .

2) Also as Buildzoid mentioned there is a point of diminishing returns in VRM quality . You can't add 40 phases and expect 4 times better results than a 10 phase that won't happen ! Most quality B450/X470 should OC 8cores and probably 12cores as good as any high end X570 , only 16cores will probably favor X570 and even there it depends .

Don't get me wrong those are very very nice mobos but they will certainly come at a very high price aswell wich for most users and usecases won't make alot of sense !
Posted on Reply
#69
kapone32
Pumper said:

As if X470 are cheap.
I have noticed that all AM4 boards cost more now than this point last year.
Posted on Reply
#70
springs113
Mamya3084 said:

Waiting on threadripper 3... hopefully October, since that's when they usually launch.
I remember buying my 1950x in august along with vega...somewhere along the lines of 8-15 i believe. Threadripper always came out before school started in my state.
Posted on Reply
#71
Vario
Metroid said:

They found a way to ditch the X570 chipset fan!



As if there was not a way to hehe, 1366 x58 is a good example of that.
I love the exclamation point. As if we are all so excited about this fact!
:roll:
Posted on Reply
#72
Fatalfury
Xuper said:

If AMD sells cheap , make no mistake , THEY WILL LOSE! This needs to be end.
then the same goes for every corporate company like Intel and Nvidia.
Posted on Reply
#73
Aldain
RH92 said:

1) As Buildzoid mentioned in the video this is the only X570 board with this kind of quality so that answers the IF .

2) Also as Buildzoid mentioned there is a point of diminishing returns in VRM quality . You can't add 40 phases and expect 4 times better results than a 10 phase that won't happen ! Most quality B450/X470 should OC 8cores and probably 12cores as good as any high end X570 , only 16cores will probably favor X570 and even there it depends .

Don't get me wrong those are very very nice mobos but they will certainly come at a very high price aswell wich for most users and usecases won't make alot of sense !
Actually AFAIK Msi godlike and the ASROCK creator boards are the same as the gigabyte one. As for you point for not making sense for many users, you are absolutely correct , but it does not deter from the fact that this board is better than all x470/z390/ intel HEDT x299 boards and on par with the Asus Zenith AMD HEDT x399 board. For mainstream that is just insane.
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#74
cucker tarlson
I say good! There's no reason for amd to be the budget option if they deliver a product of same or better quality than intel.Only reason they were the value alternative is they had to be.Maybe now they just don't anymore.
Posted on Reply
#75
Zubasa
This is just MSI CEO's own opinion anyway, IDK why there needs to be a 4 pages worth of posts debating this.

cucker tarlson said:

I say good! There's no reason for amd to be the budget option if they deliver a product of same or better quality than intel.Only reason they were the value alternative is they had to be.Maybe now they just don't anymore.
Exactly, as long as the product has the performance to back up the price tag by all means.
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