Friday, July 12th 2019

AMD Retires the Radeon VII Less Than Five Months Into Launch

AMD has reportedly discontinued production of its flagship Radeon VII graphics card. According to a Cowcotland report, AMD no longer finds it viable to produce and sell the Radeon VII at prices competitive to NVIDIA's RTX 2080, especially when its latest Radeon RX 5700 XT performs within 5-12 percent of the Radeon VII at less than half its price. AMD probably expects custom-design RX 5700 XT cards to narrow the gap even more. The RX 5700 XT has a much lesser BOM (bill of materials) cost compared to the Radeon VII, due to the simplicity of its ASIC, a conventional GDDR6 memory setup, and far lighter electrical requirements.

In stark contrast to the RX 5700 XT, the Radeon VII is based on a complex MCM (multi-chip module) that has not just a 7 nm GPU die, but also four 32 Gbit HBM2 stacks, and a silicon interposer. It also has much steeper VRM requirements. Making matters worse is the now-obsolete "Vega" architecture it's based on, which loses big time against "Navi" at performance/Watt. The future of AMD's high-end VGA lineup is uncertain. Looking at the way "Navi" comes close to performance/Watt parity with NVIDIA on the RX 5700, AMD may be tempted to design a larger GPU die based on "Navi," with a conventional GDDR6-based memory sub-system, to take another swing at NVIDIA's high-end.
Source: Cowcotland
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123 Comments on AMD Retires the Radeon VII Less Than Five Months Into Launch

#76
my_name_is_earl
A decade later, Nvidia still have no real competition to take the crown. Don't hold your breath.
Posted on Reply
#77
lexluthermiester
my_name_is_earl, post: 4080140, member: 66600"
A decade later, Nvidia still have no real competition to take the crown. Don't hold your breath.
If you're talking to me, try scrolling up the thread a bit. I'm an RTX2080 owner. And for the record, AMD lost the performance crown 5 years ago when NVidia launched the Maxwell refresh(7xx series). AMD fell behind and have yet to catch up. They're working on it though and I hope they take the lead. It'll force NVidia to compete in price again.
Posted on Reply
#78
Chloe Price
Weird. VII is a great card if you don't give a crap about noise and power consumption (that's why watercooling exists ;) ).
Posted on Reply
#79
Turmania
It was a strange decision to release this card 5 months ago. Just to say hey I'm first with 7nm tech gpu.
Posted on Reply
#80
msimax
i game great with mines 2200 core 1250 hbm at 1.245v and 41% PL EK cooled
Posted on Reply
#81
Chloe Price
msimax, post: 4080184, member: 16432"
i game great with mines 2200 core 1250 hbm at 1.245v and 41% PL EK cooled
Results please.
Posted on Reply
#82
Manoa
Patriot, post: 4079929, member: 77367"
Yall need some learning. When Fury and Vega were designed for HBM they were the first few products with HBM/2
They helped design the HBM standard and then all the FPGAs and compute cards started using it.
The memory makers then decided they could charge more and increased the price 4x or more.
So between Vega demo and price announcement the price increased 4x on their hbm and it screwed over the competitiveness.
Vii therefore was not an expected consumer product but was always a stopgap/defective mi50.
It cannot be decreased in price at all without losing money and the 5700xt is nipping at it as is.
Big navi was too power hungry and got bumped to 7nm+ for 15% power reduction.
I think that was a mistake, thermal density on 14 nm would be lower it would allow 500mm or 1000mm chip, and performance would be normal not crap like it is.
who cares about power used, you have 1000w power supplies this days, nvidea didn't with fermi and a few other models, so whay should AMD ?
I don't buy a card to look how mutch power it using, so what if it use 300W or 400W, if it give me 3840x2160 in all my games I realy don't give a damn.
It was a strange decision to release this card 5 months ago. Just to say hey I'm first with 7nm tech gpu.
it a waste of card, and so is the 5700/XT, all this cards are a waste, should never made any of them, should never made RX 80's either. not a joke: whay do I need a 1080p card from AMD in the last 5 years when a single 980 Ti can do everything on highest in any game in this resolution ? even 780 Ti can do it. AMD would saved so mutch money and power and use it to make normal cards.

yhe sure, nvidea suckx they stilling money, 1500$, but at least they gived something normal that gives around 60 in 3840x2160, I don't blieve that anyone who buyed 2080 Ti will ever run 1080p ever again
AMD gives you 1080p, nvidea gives you 4K, that's all the diffrence right now.
Posted on Reply
#83
dj-electric
Chloe Price, post: 4080173, member: 123719"
Weird. VII is a great card if you don't give a crap about noise and power consumption (that's why watercooling exists ;) ).
Or competitive performance for price, or physical size, or driver support, or this or that

Rest in pieces, you were never meant to be good, Radeon VII
Posted on Reply
#84
bug
Fluffmeister, post: 4080036, member: 101373"
I do find it fascinating how people react depending on their brand preference.

They would be torching Nvidia's shiny new headquarters if this was an Ngreedia card.

The spin here is..... good news! AMD are lovely to their customers! This must mean something better is coming!

Nvidia can't buy that mindshare for love nor money.
I just love how the article says "According to a Cowcotland report, AMD no longer finds it viable to produce and sell the Radeon VII at prices competitive to NVIDIA's RTX 2080, especially when its latest Radeon RX 5700 XT performs within 5-12 percent of the Radeon VII at less than half its price". And then someone takes that and infers Radeon VII was retired because bigger Navi is incoming. (Full disclosure, I did take Logic 101 in college.)
Posted on Reply
#85
theoneandonlymrk
see im not going to argue this morning, instead im off to game at 4k on a few games , i wanna beat metro exodus at 4k so ill just leave this here for manoa and other delusionals to have a look at.



Bye Vega ,err hang on your still in my machine, run games you meagre card now ,whip kish.

And this isnt the best i can do ,that would be 8152 beatable but im ok with it , this is typical game clocks.
Posted on Reply
#87
GamerGuy
I'd gotten a PowerColor Radeon VII back it was launched, had oodles of fun with it. But, I was gonna visit my brother here in Toronto from mid-May to early August, hated the thought of leaving it unused for such a long time, so I'd sold it, lost about 100USD when I'd sold it but I'd had my fun and really did like the card.

Besides, I have one VEGA 64 in each of my two rigs, and I'm here in Toronto and have collected my RMA'ed PowerColor VEGA64 Red Devil (when I'm back, one rig will run VEGA 64 in CF mode while the Red Devil will go into my i7 4770K rig). All this talk of Ryzen 3000 series is getting me kinda stoked, am considering an X570 + 3900X/3700X build.
Posted on Reply
#88
bug
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4080263, member: 82332"
see im not going to argue this morning, instead im off to game at 4k on a few games , i wanna beat metro exodus at 4k so ill just leave this here for manoa and other delusionals to have a look at.



Bye Vega ,err hang on your still in my machine, run games you meagre card now ,whip kish.

And this isnt the best i can do ,that would be 8152 beatable but im ok with it , this is typical game clocks.
You mean, even with all the water cooling, 1 out of 4 systems out there is still faster? :D
Posted on Reply
#89
theoneandonlymrk
bug, post: 4080320, member: 157434"
You mean, even with all the water cooling, 1 out of 4 systems out there is still faster? :D
I don't give a shit , my games can be played at 4k v high settings 45-60 fps or plenty fps @1440p for competition e sports games , even at stock clocks.

There's always something bigger better.

My point 90% would be fine served by a vega64 never mind radeon 7, and at the bargain prices vegas sell for now they are THE one to get if on a budget.

Y'all hype how bad something is compared to something else, I'll be gaming as well as I need to and don't forget my cards 18 months old , compared to Joe average this cards done 400% ++ more work than a typical consumer card folding and mining.

I didn't mention it payed for itself but then that's just candy.
Posted on Reply
#90
bug
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4080333, member: 82332"
I don't give a shit , my games can be played at 4k v high settings 45-60 fps or plenty fps @1440p for competition e sports games , even at stock clocks.

There's always something bigger better.

My point 90% would be fine served by a vega64 never mind radeon 7, and at the bargain prices vegas sell for now they are THE one to get if on a budget.

Y'all hype how bad something is compared to something else, I'll be gaming as well as I need to and don't forget my cards 18 months old , compared to Joe average this cards done 400% ++ more work than a typical consumer card folding and mining.
True, faster video cards being released, doesn't make the existing cards slower (and I hate you for having the time to play/finish Metro).
But https://www.pcworld.com/article/3408756/6-gpus-you-absolutely-should-not-buy-right-now.html ;)
Posted on Reply
#92
bug
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4080336, member: 82332"
Oh I'd agree on new, but not at heavily discounted prices /300$.
There opinion is not everyone's.
You can get a discount on 2060/2070, too. Better power draw and you get to play with DXR, DLSS and whatnot ;)
Posted on Reply
#93
medi01
lexluthermiester, post: 4080109, member: 134537"
What I'm waiting to see is AMD's answer to RTX's RTRT. Come on AMD, get on it!
PS5 and XBox<whatever cryptic crap their marketing comes up with> are due on Xmas 2020, both promised RT.

Turmania, post: 4080181, member: 182201"
It was a strange decision to release this card 5 months ago. Just to say hey I'm first with 7nm tech gpu.
The gap between V64 and VII is quite big and given the comments I read about 5700/XT, it made sense.
Posted on Reply
#94
theoneandonlymrk
bug, post: 4080337, member: 157434"
You can get a discount on 2060/2070, too. Better power draw and you get to play with DXR, DLSS and whatnot ;)
I don't want to play with a setting, I want to play AT a setting, I wouldn't spend an extra 1-200 notes to TRY an effect.

Plus Amd just gave my vega anti lag , for free 18 months post purchase, I'll TRY that.

I'm happy at the moment, but true the new cards are discounted, still too dear though Imho.
Posted on Reply
#95
Vayra86
Divide Overflow, post: 4079738, member: 69232"
So, what's AMD going to do to target the performance gaming segment now that they've thrown in the towel on Radeon VII?
Push Navi straight into Vega levels of inefficiency, the 5700XT is step one. Navi 20 will be a similar release, unless we really do get the improved and 'true RDNA' that time around, and it actually means something. RDNA was a step forward, but it still isn't truly competitive and capable of keeping up with Nvidia. AMD is still visibly a full generation behind, and playing catchup like that is a very hard thing to do. Them gaining some ground with RDNA in perf/watt (even considering the shrink to 7nm) was already more than most had hoped for... but it still isn't quite up there just yet.

In a practical and mindset sort of sense, AMD will be 'back' in GPU when they can make 2080ti killer. So far they're stuck a good 40-45% below that in the tier list and that is quite a staggering difference. And every day the clock is ticking, that gap gets wider as Nvidia closes in on a next generation.

Patriot, post: 4079929, member: 77367"
Yall need some learning. When Fury and Vega were designed for HBM they were the first few products with HBM/2
They helped design the HBM standard and then all the FPGAs and compute cards started using it.
The memory makers then decided they could charge more and increased the price 4x or more.
So between Vega demo and price announcement the price increased 4x on their hbm and it screwed over the competitiveness.
Vii therefore was not an expected consumer product but was always a stopgap/defective mi50.
It cannot be decreased in price at all without losing money and the 5700xt is nipping at it as is.
Big navi was too power hungry and got bumped to 7nm+ for 15% power reduction.
Eh... any company with half a brain could predict that a new tech that offers a higher performance level is going to get its price inflated... Matter of fact, many people outside AMD did think of that...
Posted on Reply
#96
theoneandonlymrk
Vayra86, post: 4080437, member: 152404"
Push Navi straight into Vega levels of inefficiency, the 5700XT is step one. Navi 20 will be a similar release, unless we really do get the improved and 'true RDNA' that time around, and it actually means something. RDNA was a step forward, but it still isn't truly competitive and capable of keeping up with Nvidia. AMD is still visibly a full generation behind, and playing catchup like that is a very hard thing to do. Them gaining some ground with RDNA in perf/watt (even considering the shrink to 7nm) was already more than most had hoped for... but it still isn't quite up there just yet.

In a practical and mindset sort of sense, AMD will be 'back' in GPU when they can make 2080ti killer. So far they're stuck a good 40-45% below that in the tier list and that is quite a staggering difference. And every day the clock is ticking, that gap gets wider as Nvidia closes in on a next generation.



Eh... any company with half a brain could predict that a new tech that offers a higher performance level is going to get its price inflated... Matter of fact, many people outside AMD did think of that...
Remember Rdna is running In an optimized for Gcn fashion on every game atm.
No one has had Time to incorporate any of the improvements to Rdna so we can only consider it an optimization opportunity like 7970 era Gcn.
Going to 32b simd arrays at the same clock as the rest of the shader is a truly massive change, that and Rpm improvements plus Async compute means atm no one's using its performance optimally yet it's doing ok.

As for Nvidia at 7nm their big GPU designs are going to be constrained at the very moment they least could cope with it.
New Rtx cards will need way more die space for Rt cores, they likely won't expand tensor performance much more on consumer cards but they are pushing Rtx hard and will definitely have to push that Rtx edge of the envelope leaving general rasterization and shader upgrades as secondary or tertiary concerns, that's not a good thing.

Moores law is dead covered Nvidias diminishing returns on RnD adequately and IMHO correctly.
Posted on Reply
#97
Vayra86
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4080455, member: 82332"
Remember Rdna is running In an optimised for Gcn fashion on every game atm.
No one has had Time to incorporate any of the improvements to Rdna so we can only consider it an optimisation opportunity like 7970 era Gcn.
Going to 32simd arrays at thee same clock as the rest of the shader is a truly massive change , that and Rpm improvements plus Async compute means atm no one's using it's performance optimally yet it's doing ok.

As for Nvidia at 7nm their big GPU designs are going to be constrained at the very moment they least could cope with it.
New Rtx cards will need way more die space for Rt cores , they likely wont expand tensr performance much more on consumer cards but they are pushing Rtx hard and will definitely have to push that Rtx edge of the envelope leaving general rasterisation and shader upgrades as secondary or tertiary concerns, that's not a good thing.

Moores law is dead covered Nvidias diminishing returns on RnD adequately and imho correctly.
Very interesting points!
Posted on Reply
#98
lexluthermiester
medi01, post: 4080391, member: 158537"
PS5 and XBox<whatever cryptic crap their marketing comes up with> are due on Xmas 2020, both promised RT.
Right, which means they're working on something. I'm just eager to see AMD's RTRT answer for the PC market.
Posted on Reply
#99
Amite
Had a Vega 56 (best card for the money) but if you want to stay with AMD and Freesync the Radeon 7 gets you over the smoothness hump with The Division 2 and BF V . Water cooled mine and she runs It - good.
Posted on Reply
#100
theoneandonlymrk
Amite, post: 4080511, member: 164240"
Had a Vega 56 (best card for the money) but if you want to stay with AMD and Freesync the Radeon 7 gets you over the smoothness hump with The Division 2 and BF V . Water cooled mine and she runs It - good.
And AMD usually support a card with drivers beyond its useful gaming life so lets hopee this doesn't matter too much in the long run.
Posted on Reply
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