Wednesday, August 7th 2019

AMD's Latest AGESA Update Removes PCIe 4.0 Support from Pre-X570 Motherboards

AMD's latest AGESA update, which is being seeded to motherboard manufacturers, culls efforts to implement support for PCIe 4.0 in boards not carrying the latest X570 chipset. Some motherboard manufacturers had enabled support for the new standard on existing B450 and X470 motherboards - some with limited support, as was the case on some of ASUS' motherboards, others with full support. However, these efforts from motherboard manufacturers went against AMD's strategy with their X570 platform - all in all, these "rogue additions" reduced one additional feature of new X570 motherboards over their older counterparts.

The new AGESA code carries the part number AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB, and will likely be reflected in manufacturers' release notes for new BIOS versions that incorporate the code - and remove added PCIe 4.0 functionality. Other changes in this AGESA code release include fixes for Destiny 2 gamers' woes, which were having a hard time getting the game to run properly on Ryzen 3000 processors. If you're an avid Destiny 2 player and want PCIe 4.0 support, you'll likely be reminded of Rick and Morty's pickle episode. If not, you can always defer these AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB updates, if your system is behaving properly.
Source: PC Games Hardware.de
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143 Comments on AMD's Latest AGESA Update Removes PCIe 4.0 Support from Pre-X570 Motherboards

#26
cucker tarlson
in the end good for amd,doesn't matter for most users,dick move for enthusiasts.

If I owned a high end x470 board and planned to move to 3000 I'd be a little annoyed that amd didn't let the manufacturer implement it even though they had come out with 4.0 bios so it was probably working fine.
Posted on Reply
#27
Nkd
Reaperxvii, post: 4093953, member: 189569"
This is a very odd move by AMD, I get pci 4.0 is a selling point for x570 buts it's not even that big of a selling point unless you just need the fastest ssd's possible. So why disable it on older models?

I'm curious if there are technical reasons behind it or if it's just "buy more x570"
because none of the boards fully meet the pcie4 requirement and it’s AMD that will get blamed when shit doesn’t work 100%. Board makers aren’t really being100% clean here. They shouldn’t be allowing connection that doesn’t meat the standard 100%.
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#28
cucker tarlson
Nkd, post: 4094020, member: 42675"
because none of the boards fully meet the pcie4 requirement and it’s AMD that will get blamed when shit doesn’t work 100%. Board makers aren’t really being100% clean here. They shouldn’t be allowing connection that doesn’t meat the standard 100%.
I'm unaware now it's amd who have to deal with asus or biostar's rma tickets.but agree this should be verified,not just by manufacturer's word.
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#29
EarthDog
Nkd, post: 4094020, member: 42675"
because none of the boards fully meet the pcie4 requirement and it’s AMD that will get blamed when shit doesn’t work 100%. Board makers aren’t really being100% clean here. They shouldn’t be allowing connection that doesn’t meat the standard 100%.
lol, meat the standards? We talking steak? :p

AIBs mentioned that some boards could meet the requirements. I thought it would be up to the board partners to figure this out. But in the end, I agree AMD is simply protecting themselves and as splash damage, gets to sell more x570 boards for the unadorned who think they need it.
Posted on Reply
#30
Assimilator
cucker tarlson, post: 4094022, member: 173472"
I'm unaware now it's amd who have to deal with asus or biostar's rma tickets
AMD ultimately takes a financial hit if a board with one of their chipsets is RMA'd. If it's RMA'd because of an unsupported feature like PCIe 4 causing instability, that's a flat loss for no good reason. And of course, people who are dumb enough to RMA motherboards because they enabled a feature that made the board unstable, are also the same people who will go around flaming AMD for the rest of eternity.

If you absolutely need PCIe 4 support, stop being a cheapass mofo and shell out the damn cash for an X570 board. Otherwise, shut your damn mouth, because AMD doesn't owe you anything.
Posted on Reply
#31
Metroid
AMD turning into an Intel? More to come soon hehe
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#32
IceShroom
RH92, post: 4093941, member: 174545"
That not cool at all and community needs to raise against this BS ! If motherboard vendors are ok with offering PCIe 4.0 on older platforms then what does AMD care about ? Imagine all the flak Intel would had reveived for pulling such a move !
This is not software, it is a hardware specification. You cant update hardware like software. PCI-e 4.0 need new wiring in PCB which cannot be obtaned using software update.
Posted on Reply
#33
RH92
IceShroom, post: 4094032, member: 175457"
This is not software, it is a hardware specification. You cant update hardware like software. PCI-e 4.0 need new wiring in PCB which cannot be obtaned using software update.
What are you talking about man you live under a rock or something ? There are already plenty of x470/b450 boards that do offer PCIe 4.0 and have been tested and work perfectly fine.
PCIe 4.0 doesn't need new wiring it's a question of signal integrity / trace length and it happens that many boards meet those requirements on their 1st PCIe slot , it's for the rest of the PCIe slots that things become tricky and where X570 chipset comes to play !
Posted on Reply
#34
EarthDog
Not all boards can have the signalling required for PCIe 4.0. Some can and as above, do already.
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#35
Punkenjoy
I think we still need to keep in mind that AMD allow us to run Ryzen 3000 cpu on older board. The competition have many time made users requiring buying a new motherboard for no good reason.

In this case, they could just have said, Everyone need to buy an X570 board on a new sockets. But still, you can update to a modern Ryzen on 3x0 series chipset with the only downside of not having a feature that you do not need.

Let say it's not the perfect scenario but it is in line with what they said all along. It's not like that come out of nowhere. And like many people specified, when PCI-E 4.0 will be required, these board will start to be outdated
Posted on Reply
#36
cucker tarlson
Assimilator, post: 4094027, member: 7058"
AMD ultimately takes a financial hit if a board with one of their chipsets is RMA'd. If it's RMA'd because of an unsupported feature like PCIe 4 causing instability, that's a flat loss for no good reason. And of course, people who are dumb enough to RMA motherboards because they enabled a feature that made the board unstable, are also the same people who will go around flaming AMD for the rest of eternity.

If you absolutely need PCIe 4 support, stop being a cheapass mofo and shell out the damn cash for an X570 board. Otherwise, shut your damn mouth, because AMD doesn't owe you anything.
well are amd supposed to replace working chipsets ? with what ? where is the part where they take the hit ?
Posted on Reply
#37
IceShroom
RH92, post: 4094039, member: 174545"
What are you talking about man you live under a rock or something ? There are already plenty of x470/b450 boards that do offer PCIe 4.0 and have been tested and work perfectly fine.
PCIe 4.0 doesn't need new wiring it's a question of signal integrity / trace length and it happens that many boards meet those requirements on their 1st PCIe slot , it's for the rest of the PCIe slots that things become tricky and where X570 chipset comes to play !
OEM downgrade VRM of gpus from the reference card, you expect them to build PCI-e 3.0 board with 4.0 specification. Mobo manufactures better make PCI-e 3.0 board with PCI-e 2.0 specification than PCI-e 4.
Mobo manufactures dont even supports all I/O of chipset, but they will support next gen PCI-e in mobo. It only possible in fools heaven.

New high speed interfence dont new wiring then why we need new cable for 5G/10G Ehternet?? Cant we just download new cabel on those old cable??
Where is my Skylake CPU download?? My CPU already supports 84W TDP and so does my mobo. So where is my download??
Posted on Reply
#38
cucker tarlson
IceShroom, post: 4094050, member: 175457"
OEM downgrade VRM of gpus from the reference card, you expect them to build PCI-e 3.0 board with 4.0 specification.
separate issue.

IceShroom, post: 4094050, member: 175457"
It only possible in fools heaven.
or via bios download
Posted on Reply
#39
theoneandonlymrk
cucker tarlson, post: 4093994, member: 173472"
well,this could've at least been an option for manufacturers to test and determine.
if a manufacturer knows their best boards can handle it and do it fine,which is probably the case here,they could've been given the chance to do so.
amd used the case of low-end boards to lock everyone out.

not saying they did bad,they did fine for themselves,but absolutely against enthusiasts.
You do say such or imply it to be the case so often.

Be real motherboard makers scarcely give a rats ass about the end user post sale ,we're lucky they bother updating the bios at all, they are not going to retest and re certify all their old boards , some already updated many times so multile versions of the same board too so they can prove pciex4 compatibility , they would f##$ up their own new motherboard sales and go against they're chip manufacturers guidelines.

And can anyone post an x470 board advertised as pciex4 compliant new or old, I think it doesn't exist except obviously in china as a hacked special.

So no , Amd didn't do anything wrong here.
Posted on Reply
#40
Fierce Guppy
I expect longtime BIOS modders to get around AGESA updates so users can retain PCIe 4.0 compatibility and have the bug fixes/stability improvements.

Posted on Reply
#41
repman244
The comments about "AMD only did this to protect themselves" are BS IMO.

Let me give you one example: Asus Crosshair IV AM3 supported Bulldozer CPU's and if I remember correctly even Piledriver worked but none of them worked perfectly which was expected.
So please explain to me why at that time AMD didn't do anything? I can give you a hint - they were demolished by Intel and needed every possible income.

IMO they disabled PCIe4 only so people buy x570 and nothing else.
If board makers tested it and found it works correctly (in this case it either works or it doesn't!) I don't see any problem.
Posted on Reply
#42
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
HTC, post: 4093981, member: 51238"
That's on motherboard vendors because AMD had specifically said no to PCIe 4 in older boards but they went ahead and enabled it anyway.
Till gpus saturate pcie 3, no point of pcie 4 yet...
Posted on Reply
#43
cucker tarlson
eidairaman1, post: 4094082, member: 40556"
Till gpus saturate pcie 3, no point of pcie 4 yet...
to be fair all we saw was 5700xt,that's 2070 equivalent.who knows when 2080ti-eqivalent comes around.we might see ~5%,not much but you see the tendency.
the more I think about it,amd would win if nvidia came out with 3080ti soon.they'd get crushed in gpu power,but imagine people selling their coffee lakes for ryzen :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#44
IceShroom
cucker tarlson, post: 4094060, member: 173472"
separate issue.


or via bios download
I am saying that an OEM will cheap out from base than add advance feature.
Are you saynig that we can download hardware like RAM or CPU??
Posted on Reply
#45
cucker tarlson
IceShroom, post: 4094094, member: 175457"
Are you saynig that we can download hardware like RAM or CPU??
I don't think asus required you to download the x570 chipset.

and it's a separate issue of different kind.what does gpu vrm have to do with this,seriously ?
Posted on Reply
#46
IceShroom
cucker tarlson, post: 4094095, member: 173472"
I don't think asus required you to download the x570 chipset.

and it's a separate issue of different kind.what does gpu vrm have to do with this,seriously ?
Then how can you will get PCI-e 4.0??
Posted on Reply
#47
cucker tarlson
IceShroom, post: 4094098, member: 175457"
Then how can you will get PCI-e 4.0??
there's a chart in the thread,use it.
and pci-e lines are on the cpu.the hardware is there.
Posted on Reply
#48
Ferrum Master
eidairaman1, post: 4094082, member: 40556"
Till gpus saturate pcie 3, no point of pcie 4 yet...
Absolutely. I kinda chuckle on those looking on first gen pcie4 crap controller nvme ssd's and wet their pants only on useless sequential speeds also...
Posted on Reply
#49
IceShroom
cucker tarlson, post: 4094102, member: 173472"
there's a chart in the thread,use it.
and pci-e lines are on the cpu.
That chart shows that a Cat5 cabel can work with a 10G NIC but dont guaranty that the all data is transmitted.
Posted on Reply
#50
cucker tarlson
Ferrum Master, post: 4094104, member: 90058"
Absolutely. I kinda chuckle on those looking on first gen pcie4 crap controller nvme ssd's and wet their pants only on useless sequential speeds also...
that's more likely to be the issue with ryzen's latency than pci-e 4.0 standard alone.been known since 1000,anvil scores 18% lower on ryzen.In cdm 1/3rd of 4k write performance is gone.As scores 10% lower overall,but the main performance hit is sadly on 4k random write again,about 1/3rd loss.

https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/8073/amd-ryzen-ssd-storage-performance-preview/index3.html
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