Wednesday, September 11th 2019

Intel Says Its Upcoming Gen12 GPUs Will Feature Biggest Architecture Change In A Decade

Intel is slowly realizing plans to "one up" its GPU game starting from first 10 nm Ice Lake CPUs that feature Gen11 graphics, equipping users of integrated GPUs with much more performance than they previously got. Fortunately, Intel doesn't plan to stop there. Thanks to the recent pull request found on GitLab Mesa repository, we can now expect to receive biggest GPU performance bump in over a decade with the arrival of Gen12 based GPUs, found on next generation Tiger Lake processors.

In this merge request, Francisco Jerez, member of Intel's open source Linux graphics team, stated the following: "Gen12 is planned to include one of the most in-depth reworks of the Intel EU ISA since the original i965. The encoding of almost every instruction field, hardware opcode and register type needs to be updated in this merge request. But probably the most invasive change is the removal of the register scoreboard logic from the hardware, which means that the EU will no longer guarantee data coherency between register reads and writes, and will require the compiler to synchronize dependent instructions anytime there is a potential data hazard..."
Planned for release sometime around 2020/2021 (with Tiger Lake), Gen12 graphics features a complete overhaul of Execution Unit in a way we haven't seen since i965 debut. There will be less hardware logic that checks data for coherency, possibly resulting in lower latency and higher performance. That workload will shift from logic built into hardware, to compilers for them to figure out if data is correct or not, resulting in less wasted GPU clock cycles dedicated to that function. Source: Phoronix via HotHardware
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67 Comments on Intel Says Its Upcoming Gen12 GPUs Will Feature Biggest Architecture Change In A Decade

#26
danbert2000
They can improve the iGPU all they want, but I'm guessing we're not going to see incredible gains until the memory bandwidth situation is improved. I know that faster DDR4 speeds are helping things along, but there's still something like a fivefold gap in bandwidth that puts a ceiling on what is possible on an on-die GPU. Without some sort of high speed cache, these are going to be fully bandwidth limited. Not to mention you're sharing system memory, so some modern games are not going to play nicely on 8 GB of shared RAM.

Clearly the next step is throwing an HBM on the die as well. AMD could do that quite easily with their multi-chip processors. Intel is doing work on 3D chip integration, maybe that technology will come to bear on a "new" Iris Pro.

I have to laugh that we're just now seeing Intel put out something that can beat my i7-5775c at graphics performance. About time!
Posted on Reply
#27
thesmokingman
I can see a future massive patent suit coming up with Intel hiring poaching so many former AMD engineers...
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#28
dj-electric
thesmokingman, post: 4114935, member: 91203"
I can see a future massive patent suit coming up with Intel hiring poaching so many former AMD engineers...
You know, its not like they put f&*king guns to their heads. They offer money, they make deals.
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#29
thesmokingman
dj-electric, post: 4114983, member: 87186"
You know, its not like they put f&*king guns to their heads. They offer money, they make deals.
No shit? However the reality is whenever there's poaching there's often a suitcase of files... not saying it happened here but it happens.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7902989.stm
Posted on Reply
#31
Infkos
dicktracy, post: 4114835, member: 173119"
There's always AMD fanboys shitting on Intel and Nvidia articles... crazy cult I must say with such dedication.
I am not AMD fanboy. I have 30 computer gamers all with Intel and Nvidia GPUs. The next ones to join will be with Ryzen.
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#32
seronx
Metroid, post: 4114994, member: 178915"
bulldozer episode 2.
Larrabee episode 10*
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#33
Steevo
dj-electric, post: 4114674, member: 87186"
You're misinterpreting. Intel's reps said Gen12 will double upon the speed of Gen11, which already rivals APUs. So That's X4 of Gen 9.5 according to them


So 50/64 = 78% of performance.... 22% less...

Math is hard, I get it.
Posted on Reply
#34
dicktracy
Infkos, post: 4115020, member: 163256"
I am not AMD fanboy. I have 30 computer gamers all with Intel and Nvidia GPUs. The next ones to join will be with Ryzen.
Good for you. But I'm not talking about people supporting AMD... I might even get a Threadripper based on Zen 4. It's the crazed vocal minority that are spamming the same anti-Intel/Nvidia narrative throughout social media as if they're personally invested in a company that don't care about them. If that's not a cult, then I don't know what that is.
Posted on Reply
#35
semantics
Steevo, post: 4115047, member: 19251"


So 50/64 = 78% of performance.... 22% less...

Math is hard, I get it.
2400g is 65w tdp not meant for mobile.
And you compare it to 15-25w intel cpus ment for mobile on a game notoriously bottlenecked by cpu performance.

Pretty sure people call that intellectual bankruptcy
Granted that's intel 11 gen graphics is only in their icelake platform but amd has mobile platforms as well.

If you want to be a little more honest
try a I7-1065G7 vs Ryzen 7 3700U both are part of the upper end of their mobile segments and have tdp of 15-25w

Posted on Reply
#36
IceShroom
dicktracy, post: 4115053, member: 173119"
Good for you. But I'm not talking about people supporting AMD... I might even get a Threadripper based on Zen 4. It's the crazed vocal minority that are spamming the same anti-Intel/Nvidia narrative throughout social media as if they're personally invested in a company that don't care about them. If that's not a cult, then I don't know what that is.
We have a Intel/Nvidia Avenger here. The predator is now playing victim card.

And Intel's support is shit. No WDDM 2.6 or even 2.4/2.5 for Haswell IGPU. Didn't receive any update for IGPU through out either 2017/2018, then only recieved 1 update in 2019 with driver date of 2018.
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#37
Steevo
semantics, post: 4115076, member: 91842"
2400g is 65w tdp not meant for mobile.
And you compare it to 15-25w intel cpus ment for mobile on a game notoriously bottlenecked by cpu performance.

Pretty sure people call that intellectual bankruptcy
Granted that's intel 11 gen graphics is only in their icelake platform but amd has mobile platforms as well.

If you want to be a little more honest
try a I7-1065G7 vs Ryzen 7 3700U both are part of the upper end of their mobile segments and have tdp of 15-25w


I have failed at Google, where is this review at on the web, I can't find it?


I found it.

Ryzen with 2400Mhz ram and Intel with 3733Mhz.
Posted on Reply
#38
notb
thesmokingman, post: 4114984, member: 91203"
No shit? However the reality is whenever there's poaching there's often a suitcase of files... not saying it happened here but it happens.
You're suggesting something illegal, so maybe you could at least add a motive? Why would Intel need "a suitcase of files"? What could they learn from it?
Steevo, post: 4115087, member: 19251"
Ryzen with 2400Mhz ram and Intel with 3733Mhz.
And that is important because...?
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#39
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
Steevo, post: 4115087, member: 19251"
I have failed at Google, where is this review at on the web, I can't find it?


I found it.

Ryzen with 2400Mhz ram and Intel with 3733Mhz.
Yup watch the amd with 3733 run the intel over lol
Posted on Reply
#40
notb
eidairaman1, post: 4115106, member: 40556"
Yup watch the amd with 3733 run the intel over lol
If only it existed.
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#41
R0H1T
Well it exists & is coming to Renoir(?) IIRC & "it matters" because - bandwidth - obviously not to mention ICL competition is AMD @7nm not what they're showcasing atm :shadedshu:
Posted on Reply
#42
john_
Until 5 years ago Intel had "alien technology". You could expect wonders from them. Today, not so much. Considering their recent slides, I am pretty sure that, when they claim double performance they mean:
- Old iGPU tested with DDR4 2400, new one tested with DDR4 5GHz(or something).

Let's wait and see.
Posted on Reply
#43
notb
R0H1T, post: 4115160, member: 131092"
Well it exists & is coming to Renoir(?) IIRC & "it matters" because - bandwidth - obviously not to mention ICL competition is AMD @7nm not what they're showcasing atm :shadedshu:
So actually it doesn't exist yet - not for sale at least.

Simple fact is: Intel is currently selling a 10nm 4C/8T 25W mobile SoC that:
- on the CPU front performs like a desktop i7 7700 - way past anything AMD has shown to date,
- on the GPU front matches the best mobile AMD APU.
In other words: it's roughly equivalent to what AMD is rumored to show next year as Renoir (Zen2 + Vega).

Yes, some of the Gen12 GPU result stems from having faster RAM. So? Intel developed a solution that supports and benefits from the best DDR4 they could find.

When AMD gets an advantage from HBM2 I never see you trivializing that "it would be sh.t with DDR5". :-D
Posted on Reply
#44
R0H1T
Well yes it's not for sale just yet, but I guess ICL is also pretty rare isn't it? The ICL launch is pretty much the carbon copy of BDW launch 4 (5?) years back, with mass availability likely still 6+ months away.
notb, post: 4115171, member: 165619"
Simple fact is: Intel is currently selling a 10nm 4C/8T 25W mobile SoC that:
- on the CPU front performs like a desktop i7 7700 - way past anything AMD has shown to date,
- on the GPU front matches the best mobile AMD APU.
In other words: it's roughly equivalent to what AMD may show next year as Renoir (Zen2 + Vega).
I can't say how good will Renoir clock but there's every chance that the GPU should beat anything Intel has, possibly with the exception of dedicated eDRAM or some other solution for Iris pro chips.
notb, post: 4115171, member: 165619"
When AMD gets an advantage from HBM2 I never see you trivializing that "it would be sh.t with DDR5". :-D
I'm not sure why that is relevant, if ICL were selling in huge numbers perhaps we could debate about how AMD is still lagging behind the competition even with their GPU advantage. But as it is we have 0 sales, from AMD, & virtually no sales numbers from Intel. Just to add to that, I doubt Intel's major USP would be the GPU even with ICL. As you rightly pointed out, their CPU/IPC dominance would mostly continue to be the key selling point.

Basically it boils down to what you can afford (+availability) & what fits your need, in the mobile space I'd mostly prefer a better GPU but again it depends on the individual.
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#45
Prima.Vera
Recently all those news coming from intel with promises promises, start to sound more and more just like those fake adverts for "penis enhancement pills", or similar...
Posted on Reply
#46
notb
R0H1T, post: 4115174, member: 131092"
Well yes it's not for sale just yet, but I guess ICL is also pretty rare isn't it? The ICL launch is pretty much the carbon copy of BDW launch 4 (5?) years back, with mass availability likely still 6+ months away.
That depends what you call "mass availability".
It's a very fresh CPU and just few laptops have been announced.
Dell has just 1 notebook with 1065G7 (new XPS 2in1) - estimated shipping in 10 days.
Sure, 1 laptop is not that great even at launch, but that's still more than the number of Ryzen 3000 desktops they offer. :p

In fact Lenovo and HP also announced a single laptop with IceLake-U. As with Dell, it's a premium convertible, so not really an important product.
Prima.Vera, post: 4115176, member: 98685"
Recently all those news coming from intel with promises promises, start to sound more and more just like those fake adverts for "penis enhancement pills", or similar...
Yes, they start to sound like AMD in 2016. ;-)
Posted on Reply
#47
TheDeeGee
Looking forward to the vulnerabilities.
Posted on Reply
#48
Vayra86
Intel has been banging the drums about their IGPs for nearly a decade now, and look what they got to. The only truly promising IGP they did have was a one off.

Even just the TDP limit is a hard reality that they cant get around. More talk, no results is all this is. Another baby step on inferior node.

And if THIS is what they intend to market or fire up Xe with.... yeah... we'll talk again a decade from now.

danbert2000, post: 4114925, member: 165365"
They can improve the iGPU all they want, but I'm guessing we're not going to see incredible gains until the memory bandwidth situation is improved. I know that faster DDR4 speeds are helping things along, but there's still something like a fivefold gap in bandwidth that puts a ceiling on what is possible on an on-die GPU. Without some sort of high speed cache, these are going to be fully bandwidth limited. Not to mention you're sharing system memory, so some modern games are not going to play nicely on 8 GB of shared RAM.

Clearly the next step is throwing an HBM on the die as well. AMD could do that quite easily with their multi-chip processors. Intel is doing work on 3D chip integration, maybe that technology will come to bear on a "new" Iris Pro.

I have to laugh that we're just now seeing Intel put out something that can beat my i7-5775c at graphics performance. About time!
Exactly. Im still amazed they didnt pursue that 5775C further. Wonderful cpu.
Posted on Reply
#49
notb
Vayra86, post: 4115221, member: 152404"
Intel has been banging the drums about their IGPs for nearly a decade now, and look what they got to. The only truly promising IGP they did have was a one off.
One of the most efficient GPUs available (including ARM)? Triple 4K support? Most polished hardware encoder/decoder?

Out of all PCs existing maybe 10% are used for gaming and maybe 1% for some kind of semi-conscious GPGPU - most of these have a graphics card anyway.
For the rest of users Intel HD is pretty much perfect.
They're increasing performance to support higher resolutions. That's it.
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#50
potato580+
so does it mean we finnaly have a third option in gpu market? i believe in intel, wait and observe:)
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