Monday, October 21st 2019

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X Beats Intel Core i9-10980XE by 24% in 3DMark Physics

AMD's upcoming Ryzen 9 3950X socket AM4 processor beats Intel's flagship 18-core processor, the Core i9-10980XE, by a staggering 24 percent at 3DMark Physics, according to a PC Perspective report citing TUM_APISAK. The 3950X is a 16-core/32-thread processor that's drop-in compatible with any motherboard that can run the Ryzen 9 3900X. The i9-10980XE is an 18-core/36-thread HEDT chip that enjoys double the memory bus width as the AMD chip, and is based on Intel's "Cascade Lake-X" silicon. The AMD processor isn't at a tangible clock-speed advantage. The 3950X has a maximum boost frequency of 4.70 GHz, while the i9-10980XE isn't much behind, at 4.60 GHz, but things differ with all-core boost.

When paired with 16 GB of dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory, the Ryzen 9 3950X powered machine scores 32,082 points in the CPU-intensive physics tests of 3DMark. In comparison, the i9-10980XE, paired with 32 GB of quad-channel DDR4-2667 memory, scores just 25,838 points as mentioned by PC Perspective. Graphics card is irrelevant to this test. It's pertinent to note here that the 3DMark physics test scales across practically any number of CPU cores/threads, and the AMD processor could be benefiting from a higher all-core boost frequency than the Intel chip. Although AMD doesn't mention a number in its specifications, the 3950X is expected to have an all-core boost frequency that's north of 4.00 GHz, as its 12-core sibling, the 3900X, already offers 4.20 GHz all-core. In contrast, the i9-10980XE has an all-core boost frequency of 3.80 GHz. This difference in boost frequency, apparently, even negates the additional 2 cores and 4 threads that the Intel chip enjoys, in what is yet another example of AMD having caught up with Intel in the IPC game.
Sources: TUM_APISAK (Twitter), PC Perspective
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143 Comments on AMD Ryzen 9 3950X Beats Intel Core i9-10980XE by 24% in 3DMark Physics

#76
Vya Domus
Who cares about the scores. What's impressive is that both CPUs perform in the same ballpark but the 3950X uses probably like what, half the power ? And is available on a cheaper mainstream platform, with itself being the cheaper CPU.

Intel's top of the line HEDT offerings are struggling against AMD's mainstream CPUs. Oh boy. That's a plot twist if I ever saw one, who would have envisioned this say 3 years ago.

techguymaxc
Apparently all the rumors were wrong and the base clocks are actually only 3.0GHz, same as preceding generations!
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/198017/intel-core-i9-10980xe-extreme-edition-processor-24-75m-cache-3-00-ghz.html
Makes sense, that 14nm+++ or whatever it is by this point isn't an bottomless well of scalability.

techguymaxc
Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock, so I don't really care about stock performance.
People totally buy HEDT chips and don't overclock them. Someone can buy a workstation for editing video and have no knowledge whatsoever about overclocking and such, they just got a fast CPU that they use as it is out of the box.
Posted on Reply
#77
EarthDog
techguymaxc
Apparently all the rumors were wrong and the base clocks are actually only 3.0GHz, same as preceding generations!
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/198017/intel-core-i9-10980xe-extreme-edition-processor-24-75m-cache-3-00-ghz.html

Which means this all makes a lot more sense now. Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock, so I don't really care about stock performance.
Oops.. yes. I saw that and completely forgot it existed already at the ark. :D

So I'd imagine all core boost around 3.6-3.8 ghz will Hope's of 4ghz, lol.


ShrimpBrime
Why not compare the AMD 3970x instead?
because its 32c/64t compared to half that? It's also $1500 compared to $1000. The 3960x is $1000 and 24/48t. Depends on what you are trying to compare by.. core/thread count, HEDT to HEDT, price...etc.

Edit: AMDs HEDT/Threadripper product stack is crazy if the rumors are true. A 64c/128t monster for $2500 at the top.. $1000 24c/48t chip at the bottom. Wowzas! What does zen2 server line look like?!!

Edit2: read a better source..16c/32t at the bottom... no price on that.
Posted on Reply
#78
Totally
The Egg
Fate has certainly dealt you a cruel hand. Forced to survive, possibly for months, with only a mere 2700x. That's not a life anyone should have to live.
Got one better, Just specced out a new personal rig this past weekend only thing keeping me were out of stocks. This morning, while working on a server merely following instructions shit hit the fan in the most monumental way possible, the short take involved the "big red button," Homeland Security and 20 other departments and agencies directly beneath it. Kept being told I should've have known better despite what I was told, but knowing 'it exists' was the extent of my knowledge considering how hush hush things are around here. I never laid eyes on the thing prior to that. So fucked. By the time I left for the day blacked out cars were still coming in and out. I don't even know if I'm going to have a job by the time I go to bed. Sorry didn't rant/vent.
Posted on Reply
#79
Crackong
techguymaxc
Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock.
There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.
Posted on Reply
#80
Solaris17
Dainty Moderator
Crackong
There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.
And you can count me. I dont OC my 7980xe at all. None of the forum members really attacked me when they came out. I saw some others get the rope though. I certainly didnt buy this chip for its OC potential (doesnt really have any) or its clock rate (2.6 at its base 3ish most days with most cores).

I was one of those crazy users that you know bought a high core count chip for well....its cores.

Im not going to OC and pull a KW from the wall to watch netflix.
Posted on Reply
#81
Chrispy_
Infinity fabric beats glue.
72MB cache beats 24.75MB cache
~148W peak PBO power consumption beats an unrealistically-low 165W base consumption before boost.
$750 beats $1000.
PCIe 4.0 beats PCIe 3.0

On top of all that, have Intel closed all of the exposed side-channel attack vulnerabilities in hardware yet, or are they still recycling old architecture with microcode/software patches?

I'm sure there are still going to be plenty of benchmarks where Intel wins, either due to AVX512 vs AVX256, or simply old code that was optimised with an Intel compiler but Team Blue simply has no good cards on the table and a pretty weak hand at the moment.
Posted on Reply
#82
techguymaxc
Crackong
There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.
I'd like to see that number quantified. Nonetheless, you'll see that I did not say "no HEDT user runs stock clocks" but rather, "almost no one..." I recognize that some HEDT users do not overclock.

Solaris17
And you can count me. I dont OC my 7980xe at all. None of the forum members really attacked me when they came out. I saw some others get the rope though. I certainly didnt buy this chip for its OC potential (doesnt really have any) or its clock rate (2.6 at its base 3ish most days with most cores).

I was one of those crazy users that you know bought a high core count chip for well....its cores.

Im not going to OC and pull a KW from the wall to watch netflix.
You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.

I've overclocked nearly every CPU I've owned since my first upgrade from a 486 to an AM586 way back in the mid-90's. Earlier this year I had a 7900x that I was planning to de-lid and see how far I could push it, but an opportunity to replace it with this (already de-lidded) 7960x came up so I took it. All-core turbo on this chip is only 3.6GHz, which is below my personal threshold for single-thread performance of at least 4GHz on modern chips. Ideally, closer to 5GHz but I'm not pushing this chip to 5GHz on ambient cooling. So I applied a moderate overclock to reach this desired level of performance and it is perfectly stable functioning in a system that is both a media server and video production workstation.

Multi-threaded performance of course matters (otherwise why buy HEDT?) but single-thread performance still matters also. For example, the decoder engine for VC1 is still single-threaded, so when someone queues up a VC1 video to play on my media server, I want to know the system can fill up the buffer fast enough to avoid stuttering/buffering. With base clock as low as 3GHz that's not a guarantee. Boost clock at 3.6 gets you closer, but I would rather have an over-engineered solution and not need the extra performance, than vice versa.
Posted on Reply
#83
Vya Domus
I ma pretty sure it's the same as with all consumers in general, the people that overclock are always the minority.
Posted on Reply
#84
Crackong
techguymaxc
I'd like to see that number quantified. Nonetheless, you'll see that I did not say "no HEDT user runs stock clocks" but rather, "almost no one..." I recognize that some HEDT users do not overclock.

You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.

I've overclocked nearly every CPU I've owned since my first upgrade from a 486 to an AM586 way back in the mid-90's. Earlier this year I had a 7900x that I was planning to de-lid and see how far I could push it, but an opportunity to replace it with this (already de-lidded) 7960x came up so I took it. All-core turbo on this chip is only 3.6GHz, which is below my personal threshold for single-thread performance of at least 4GHz on modern chips. Ideally, closer to 5GHz but I'm not pushing this chip to 5GHz on ambient cooling. So I applied a moderate overclock to reach this desired level of performance and it is perfectly stable functioning in a system that is both a media server and video production workstation.

Multi-threaded performance of course matters (otherwise why buy HEDT?) but single-thread performance still matters also. For example, the decoder engine for VC1 is still single-threaded, so when someone queues up a VC1 video to play on my media server, I want to know the system can fill up the buffer fast enough to avoid stuttering/buffering. With base clock as low as 3GHz that's not a guarantee. Boost clock at 3.6 gets you closer, but I would rather have an over-engineered solution and not need the extra performance, than vice versa.
Homelab / Home server / UAT ENV / Stock trade machines....etc.
There are many applications for a HEDT machine which requires many horse power but reliability and stability is on top of the list.

A 7980xe delided and 4.6GHz all-core OC sounds great.
However I won't trust it for, let say, a 4 hours continuous 3D rendering task, day after day.

When Money is on the table, overclocking is just another uncertainty and should be avoided.
Posted on Reply
#85
Solaris17
Dainty Moderator
techguymaxc
You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.
you try to make the post sound like I’m some kind of consumer peasant and then proceed to weird flex by attempting to explain to me how modifications to your CPU presumably make your usage somehow mean something more compared to mine?

Like what? are your delids and OCs supposed to impress me?

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/7980xe-delid.251203/
Posted on Reply
#86
techguymaxc
Vya Domus
I ma pretty sure it's the same as with all consumers in general, the people that overclock are always the minority.
I'm not inclined to agree with you. We are talking about a niche product intended for enthusiasts, afterall.

Crackong
Homelab / Home server / UAT ENV / Stock trade machines....etc.
There are many applications for a HEDT machine which requires many horse power but reliability and stability is on top of the list.

A 7980xe delided and 4.6GHz all-core OC sounds great.
However I won't trust it for, let say, a 4 hours continuous 3D rendering task, day after day.

When Money is on the table, overclocking is just another uncertainty and should be avoided.
That's my point though, no one running a "production" workload *should* be buying HEDT, they should be buying Xeon or Epyc.

Also, there is a stark difference between a mild OC such as the one I am running, and the 4.6GHz all-core OC you cite, wouldn't you say? Surely you don't believe that mild overclocking (from 3.6GHz to 4GHz) is at all analagous to pushing a chip to its limits.

Solaris17
you try to make the post sound like I’m some kind of consumer peasant and then proceed to weird flex by attempting to explain to me how modifications to your CPU presumably make your usage somehow mean something more compared to mine?

Like what? are your delids and OCs supposed to impress me?

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/7980xe-delid.251203/
I'm not sure why you're responding to me in this way, I'm attempting to engage in a reasoned debate in good faith. It seems that you have taken offense by my statements of opinion, though I have offered no offense.
Posted on Reply
#87
Solaris17
Dainty Moderator
techguymaxc
I'm not sure why you're responding to me in this way, I'm attempting to engage in a reasoned debate in good faith. It seems that you have taken offense by my statements of opinion, though I have offered no offense.
doesn’t matter really. It was off topic anyway. Thread is about 10980xe score vs the Ryzen that beat it. Not the talking points of HEDT over clocking.
Posted on Reply
#88
Crackong
techguymaxc
That's my point though, no one running a "production" workload *should* be buying HEDT, they should be buying Xeon or Epyc.

Also, there is a stark difference between a mild OC such as the one I am running, and the 4.6GHz all-core OC you cite, wouldn't you say? Surely you don't believe that mild overclocking (from 3.6GHz to 4GHz) is at all analagous to pushing a chip to its limits.
When you don't need ECC support or heavy VM applications, HEDT is the best choice.

And your "mild" overclocking pushes the power consumption of the CPU to 300W + territory.
Then you need an AIO to calm the CPU down, thus introduces another point of failure to the system.

Don't get me wrong.
OC is fun, I do it in my personal rig.

But when stuff needs to be done quick yet reliably, OC should be out of the equation.
Posted on Reply
#89
techguymaxc
Solaris17
doesn’t matter really. It was off topic anyway. Thread is about 10980xe score vs the Ryzen that beat it. Not the talking points of HEDT over clocking.
Overclocking HEDT processors is off-topic for a discussion about an upcoming HEDT processor?

Crackong
When you don't need ECC support or heavy VM applications, HEDT is the best choice.

And your "mild" overclocking pushes the power consumption of the CPU to 300W + territory.
Then you need an AIO to calm the CPU down, thus introduces another point of failure to the system.
Depends on voltage. I know for a fact my 7960x at just over 1.0V doesn't use 300W for 4GHz all-core workloads in the real-world (video rendering and transcoding tasks). I know because I have a kill-a-watt hooked up and have measured peak (and minimum) power consumption. It's about 220W CPU power consumption for me. Well within the cooling capabilities of my water loop, and the capability of my power supply.
Posted on Reply
#90
kapone32
Hi Solaris17 I would love to see this included when you guys do reviews on the 3960X and 3990X.
Posted on Reply
#91
Vya Domus
techguymaxc
I'm not inclined to agree with you. We are talking about a niche product intended for enthusiasts, afterall.
Enthusiast is a word devoid of any real meaning, you can keep using it but it conveys nothing. And these are products intended for all kinds of people, like content creators who don't know how to and don't want to overclock anything.
Posted on Reply
#92
techguymaxc
Vya Domus
Enthusiast is a word devoid of any real meaning, you can keep using it but it conveys nothing. And these are products intended for all kinds of people, like content creators who don't know how to and don't want to overclock anything.
You say this based on what, exactly?
Intel disagrees, btw:
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNS88FhvmJm3zw9PuNT3MXucDGY4Iw%3A1571765306301&ei=OjyvXcn7EYjY-wTzv7eQBQ&q=intel+enthusiast&oq=intel+enthusiast&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39j0i67j0l6j0i22i30l2.5757.5757..7085...0.2..0.134.134.0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.EVZY6DhnEhU&ved=0ahUKEwjJgIKGsrDlAhUI7J4KHfPfDVIQ4dUDCAs&uact=5
Posted on Reply
#93
Vya Domus
techguymaxc
You say this based on what, exactly?
Based on the fact that you cannot successfully attach these notions to being an "enthusiasts".

Person 1 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games.
Person 2 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.
Person 3 spends 500$ on on rig to play games.
Person 4 spends 500$ on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.

Which of these people are the enthusiasts and why ?

techguymaxc
Intel disagrees, btw:
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNS88FhvmJm3zw9PuNT3MXucDGY4Iw%3A1571765306301&ei=OjyvXcn7EYjY-wTzv7eQBQ&q=intel+enthusiast&oq=intel+enthusiast&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39j0i67j0l6j0i22i30l2.5757.5757..7085...0.2..0.134.134.0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.EVZY6DhnEhU&ved=0ahUKEwjJgIKGsrDlAhUI7J4KHfPfDVIQ4dUDCAs&uact=5
Not one clue what that's supposed to be.

Did you just ... google "Intel" and "enthusiast" hoping something will show up ?
Posted on Reply
#94
techguymaxc
Vya Domus
Based on the fact that you cannot successfully attach these notions to being an "enthusiasts".

Person 1 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games.
Person 2 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.
Person 3 spends 500$ on on rig to play games.
Person 4 spends 500$ on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.

Which of these people are the enthusiasts and why ?
Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.

Vya Domus
Not one clue what that's supposed to be.

Did you just ... google "Intel" and "enthusiast" hoping something will show up ?
Can't be bothered to read a list of search results, let alone click on them?

The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...
Posted on Reply
#95
Vya Domus
techguymaxc
Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.
I didn't ask what are enthusiast class products, don't beat around the bush. You can't answer because you don't know how, and you just threw another vague term : "premium products". Go ahead, tell me what's a premium product and what isn't, with variables and all that.

techguymaxc
The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...
Makes me chuckle, as if throwing marketing claims around that don't have any real meaning would be unheard of.
Posted on Reply
#97
MazeFrame
TheGuruStud
Most people are going to OC this star? Good luck with that.
Dedicated 750W PSU for the CPU, a second one for the rest of the system. Easy!

usmc362
I think that crap about 3950x beating a 10980xe is just that BULLSHIT. https://www.3dmark.com/fs/20531709
To get a better understanding of what is going on, look at servers.
Why look at Rome when we have Matisse at home?
Simple: Rome got all stops pulled. Those things run full tilt vs Intels best offerings (price vs price, you buy two AMD systems for the price of one Intel).

Look at what AMD is doing in servers. Epyc 7452 vs Xeon Gold 6148 for example:
Time in seconds (lower is better):


Or any other Epyc vs Xeon (ignoring prices)
Worst case AMD outperforms best case Intel


And there is also that one use case where AMD made a 127% performance jump over themself:


Sources:
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06/amd-epyc-7452-rome-cpu-32-kerne-benchmark/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14694/amd-rome-epyc-2nd-gen
Posted on Reply
#98
ratirt
techguymaxc
Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.



Can't be bothered to read a list of search results, let alone click on them?

The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...
Enthusiast class product? OK. You better google what enthusiast mean and who can be an enthusiast. You can be a processor, Intel or AMD or GPU etc. enthusiast and you dont have to overclock. People tend to twist meaning of words or use acronyms and later on they are lost in the meaning. I can be a car enthusiast not owning a car you know. Meaning I'm interested in this, i know a lot about it. What you are suggesting is, if somebody is an enthusiast of PC or processors, means for you he must buy premium (enthusiast processors like you said which is silly to say) processors and OC. It's like enthusiast now comes down to expensive stuff and OC only which is not right. Don't tell people to search and click on links. Saying that enthusiast must OC and buy premium (expensive processors or PC stuff) is just stupid. Somebody twisted meaning of a word, put it on the internet (like companies for marketing) and now you feed people and replicate this malarkey because it's up your alley.
Posted on Reply
#99
kapone32
ratirt
Enthusiast class product? OK. You better google what enthusiast mean and who can be an enthusiast. You can be a processor, Intel or AMD or GPU etc. enthusiast and you dont have to overclock. People tend to twist meaning of words or use acronyms and later on they are lost in the meaning. I can be a car enthusiast not owning a car you know. Meaning I'm interested in this, i know a lot about it. What you are suggesting is, if somebody is an enthusiast of PC or processors, means for you he must buy premium (enthusiast processors like you said which is silly to say) processors and OC. It's like enthusiast now comes down to expensive stuff and OC only which is not right. Don't tell people to search and click on links. Saying that enthusiast must OC and buy premium (expensive processors or PC stuff) is just stupid. Somebody twisted meaning of a word, put it on the internet (like companies for marketing) and now you feed people and replicate this malarkey because it's up your alley.
For me an enthusiast is anyone into a particular product or industry that does things like what we do here and I will list them.

1. Have theoretical conversations about products
2. Help the uninitiated with their problems
3. Have at least something from the current gen (NVME expansion card)
4. Take courses or read literature on technology
5. Get excited for new product releases (TR3, Comet Lake)
6. Be passionate about your purchases
7. Be informed before you buy anything
8. Do your own testing (if you can) on products instead of watching Youtube videos and taking that as gospel
9. Have more equipment than you will ever need
10. Be biased based on experience on what you recommend but not in a negative way.
Posted on Reply
#100
EarthDog
Or, you know, just go by how it is defined in the dictionary... because, I'm not an enthusiast according to your list...

noun
...a person who is highly interested in a particular activity or subject.
...which can mean anything... But there are a few in the list that would disqualify a lot of people from being an enthusiast. Hilarious convo... only on TPU. o_O
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