Friday, December 27th 2019

AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Offer Around 17% Increased Performance

AMD's upcoming Ryzen 4000 series processors will be based on the company's Zen 3 design, which will feature a deeply revised architecture aiming to offer increased performance (surprising no-one). AMD themselves have already said that Zen 3 will offer performance increases in line with the release of new architectures - and we all remember the around 15% increase achieved with the release of Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 series, which surprised even AMD on its performance capabilities. Several sources around the web are quoting an around 17% increase in performance, taking into account increased operating frequencies of Zen 3 (100 to 200 MHz at least for the enterprise solutions, which could pave the way for even higher increases in consumer-geared products) and increased IPC of its core design. The utilization of EUV in the 7 nm process shouldn't have much to do with the increased frequencies of the CPUs, and will mostly be used to reduce the number of masks that are required for production of AMD's Zen 3 CPUs (which in turn will lead to increased yields).

Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2, while integer operations should make do with a 10-12% increase. Cores should remain stable across the board - and with that increase in performance, I'd say an upper limit of 16 physical and 32 logic cores in a consumer-geared CPU is more than enough. Increased IPCs and frequencies will definitely make AMD an even better proposition for all markets - gaming in particular, where Intel still has a (slightly virtual) hold in consumer's minds.
Sources: 3D Center, Red Gaming Tech, Reddit
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101 Comments on AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Offer Around 17% Increased Performance

#26
NeuralNexus
ShrimpBrime
It has been reported TSMC is at 50% yields on the 5nm wafer which has the 4000 series chips releasing on target for 2021.
4000 series will be on 7nm +. AMD won't be moving to 5nm until Zen 5 in 2021 with a new socket.
Posted on Reply
#27
Minus Infinity
Surely if you are doing any maths type work with floating point work 50% fop improvement is massive. I do a lot of sims so Zen 3 will be a godsend. Was so close to updating my 3570K to Zen 2 but I’ve decided to wait another year and that means I can also wait for Ampere and Navi+ GPU’s. 2020 is gonna be huge IMO.
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#28
lynx29
EarthDog
Cool....... but premature. I'll wait and see the numbers before latching on with hope. Been disappointed too many times by both camps.

I wouldn't be happy with a 10 year old CPU... Phenom II was out in 2009 and I think I owned an i7 930 around that time...while the latter makes a decent basic PC, I can't imagine gaming on it or being productive in 10 years. An AMD APU beats Phenom II while any 4c/8t CPU from intel walks Nehalem 4c/9t...
the context is different now. stagnation is incoming. especially if you have a long backlog and don't care about RTX and Physx

r9
That probable sounded bad. :D Wasn't meant to offend and nothing wrong with Ryzen they are kicking ass at the moment.
I'm actually fighting to resist to upgrading to 2700x they are $149 at microcenter and you get another $30 off when you bundle with mobo.
What I was trying to say was good luck holding off when the next best thing comes out. :D
well my 2500k lasted me 7 years before I upgraded. unless there are major performance gains i don't see myself upgrading again after 4900x for a good 7-10 years. again that might change, maybe some game comes out that rocks my entire existence and i must max it out in 5 years, but i doubt that happens. lol

i'm not even all that excited for cyberpunk 2077 and that is my most hyped game in many years.
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#30
oxidized
Wasn't series 4000 supposed to be Zen2+?
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#31
HTC
oxidized
Wasn't series 4000 supposed to be Zen2+?
No: there never was supposed to be Zen 2+.

All the slides i've seen say from Zen 2 goes to Zen 3.
Posted on Reply
#32
Ferrum Master
When does the the first DDR5 gen come out.

Just planing upgrade. The 4000 still comes with DDR4, albeit due to chiplet and IO hub design AMD northbridge upgrade is painless now.
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#33
DeathtoGnomes
I started that rumor, last year. :kookoo:


wait, nvm this isnt 2020 yet.:rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
#34
oxidized
HTC
No: there never was supposed to be Zen 2+.

All the slides i've seen say from Zen 2 goes to Zen 3.
I don't know, i remember seeing Zen2+ somewhere, maybe i'm mistaken, but also sounded pretty logic to me, since series 2000 was Zen+
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#35
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Turmania
I want 20 core 40 thread CPU from them to mark the year 2020 accordingly, if they do and hit at least 5ghz on all cores, than they can finally have my money even if costs 1000 usd after Athlon 64 days.
Won't happen, from anyone.
Posted on Reply
#36
HTC
oxidized
I don't know, i remember seeing Zen2+ somewhere, maybe i'm mistaken, but also sounded pretty logic to me, since series 2000 was Zen+
From the OP:

Posted on Reply
#37
oxidized
HTC
From the OP:


Yeah well i saw the OP, anyway maybe i confused Zen2+ with 7nm+
Posted on Reply
#38
JAB Creations
Socket AM4 is supported until 2020 and Ryzen 4000 series (using TSMC's 7nm+ node) will (supposedly) debut in the middle to late part of 2020 and will very unlikely increase core counts or feature SMT4.

Socket AM5 will debut with the Ryzen 5000 series on TSMC's 5nm node.

AMD has worked hard to earn market mindshare by keeping motherboard compatibility though the CPU needs more bandwidth (so I hear) and so DDR5 will go a long way to alleviate that.

SMT4 makes the most sense for servers though not much for pretty much every other market (right now). The hardware is solid while software takes time to catch up. I would love to see a video on how AMD's SMT performs against Intel's SMT ("Hyperthreading").

I just purchased a 3800X (upgrading from an AMD 8350, finally) though ASRock repackaged a used/broken motherboard (up to one minute before a post) and that motherboard cost $330! Going to call Newegg today and switch to a better Gigabyte motherboard instead. I plan on dropping the money for a 4950X when they debut later in 2020 and making a friend of mine very happy (they're running a low end quad in their AM4 system). I also have to wait until 2x32GB kits get restocked; I got screwed on the timing and was not able to purchase until the week before Christmas.

I think AMD's 4000 series will cement the gaming portion though I'm much more interested in seeing AMD taking huge portions of the mobile market in 2020. We enthusiasts are unfortunately a small portion of the overall market.
Posted on Reply
#39
lynx29
JAB Creations
Socket AM4 is supported until 2020 and Ryzen 4000 series (using TSMC's 7nm+ node) will (supposedly) debut in the middle to late part of 2020 and will very unlikely increase core counts or feature SMT4.

Socket AM5 will debut with the Ryzen 5000 series on TSMC's 5nm node.

AMD has worked hard to earn market mindshare by keeping motherboard compatibility though the CPU needs more bandwidth (so I hear) and so DDR5 will go a long way to alleviate that.

SMT4 makes the most sense for servers though not much for pretty much every other market (right now). The hardware is solid while software takes time to catch up. I would love to see a video on how AMD's SMT performs against Intel's SMT ("Hyperthreading").

I just purchased a 3800X (upgrading from an AMD 8350, finally) though ASRock repackaged a used/broken motherboard (up to one minute before a post) and that motherboard cost $330! Going to call Newegg today and switch to a better Gigabyte motherboard instead. I plan on dropping the money for a 4950X when they debut later in 2020 and making a friend of mine very happy (they're running a low end quad in their AM4 system). I also have to wait until 2x32GB kits get restocked; I got screwed on the timing and was not able to purchase until the week before Christmas.

I think AMD's 4000 series will cement the gaming portion though I'm much more interested in seeing AMD taking huge portions of the mobile market in 2020. We enthusiasts are unfortunately a small portion of the overall market.
i would recommend you do the MSI X570 Meg Ace instead of Gigabyte. just my two cents. MSI knocked it out of the park this round. and was first to get newest BIOS, etc.
Posted on Reply
#40
EarthDog
JAB Creations
Socket AM4 is supported until 2020 and Ryzen 4000 series (using TSMC's 7nm+ node) will (supposedly) debut in the middle to late part of 2020 and will very unlikely increase core counts or feature SMT4.

Socket AM5 will debut with the Ryzen 5000 series on TSMC's 5nm node.

AMD has worked hard to earn market mindshare by keeping motherboard compatibility though the CPU needs more bandwidth (so I hear) and so DDR5 will go a long way to alleviate that.

SMT4 makes the most sense for servers though not much for pretty much every other market (right now). The hardware is solid while software takes time to catch up. I would love to see a video on how AMD's SMT performs against Intel's SMT ("Hyperthreading").

I just purchased a 3800X (upgrading from an AMD 8350, finally) though ASRock repackaged a used/broken motherboard (up to one minute before a post) and that motherboard cost $330! Going to call Newegg today and switch to a better Gigabyte motherboard instead. I plan on dropping the money for a 4950X when they debut later in 2020 and making a friend of mine very happy (they're running a low end quad in their AM4 system). I also have to wait until 2x32GB kits get restocked; I got screwed on the timing and was not able to purchase until the week before Christmas.

I think AMD's 4000 series will cement the gaming portion though I'm much more interested in seeing AMD taking huge portions of the mobile market in 2020. We enthusiasts are unfortunately a small portion of the overall market.
im shocked at the asrock incident. Many feel gigabyte stepped it up this round... ;)

A bad board is just bad luck, plain and simple..dont let a single experience or some bologna read on forums from parroting lemmings sway you. ;)
Posted on Reply
#41
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
Raevenlord
AMD themselves have already said that Zen 3 will offer performance increases in line with the reelase of new architectures
Typo
Raevenlord
Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2
This smells like support for AVX-512.
Posted on Reply
#42
JAB Creations
EarthDog
im shocked at the asrock incident. Many feel gigabyte stepped it up this round... ;)

A bad board is just bad luck, plain and simple..dont let a single experience or some bologna read on forums from parroting lemmings sway you. ;)
Both my 790FX and my semi-current 990FX motherboards are Gigabyte. I did not put enough thought in to the motherboard and forgot that all the SATA ports (8 SATA and 3 M.2) on the ASRock motherboard (my main requirement for an X570) are all in RAID or not. With seven hard drives (C:\, RAID 1 D:\, RAID 1E:\ RAID 1F:\) I purchased a non-RAID PCI-Express SATA card for the front 2.5/3.5 bay, C:\ and optical. So my requirements (now that I've had time to think and hands on time with the ASRock motherboard) is now just 6 SATA and 2 M.2 ports.

This is not the first $300+ motherboard I've gotten screwed on. I purchased a socket 939 SLI 16X motherboard from Asus which would not run RAID and USB - simultaneously. I RMAed it and received a used motherboard with bent PCB...RMAed that motherboard and the third board looked like someone doesn't know what a woman is and of course all three had the same problem. By the time the 5000 series debuts I'm pretty sure I'll be running a Threadripper rig or at least have the option to do so.
Posted on Reply
#43
prnsforum
Like Tock time, like the next zen + Ryzen 4k series is not much different, only the motherboard will change (cheaper). The best time to update is just waiting for the Zen 4 or Ryzen 5k series with the new DDR5 and more performance achievements, much faster than the next generation console which will be the minimum standard requirement for gaming PCs
Posted on Reply
#44
Dante Uchiha
ShurikN
Those yield numbers were achieved on an unrealistic 17mm^2 die.
If a Zen 2 die was hypothetically used (around 76mm^2), yields would be around 41%.
Which is not bad for something a year away from mass production.
With the parameters typed up the calculated die has around 75mm². BTW,
Zen 2 CCX is just 31.3mm². And as far as I know, the CCX size should be used in yield calculation.

Posted on Reply
#45
Old Ladies
Jism
I suggest you read https://www.techspot.com/article/1876-4ghz-ryzen-3rd-gen-vs-core-i9/

AMD is as good as even to Intel. The difference will be closed and even supass in the 4x00 series.
That isn't a good comparison. You can't cap that Intel at 4ghz when it can do 4.9-5 GHz easily. Even with it capped way below its rated clock it still beats AMDs CPUs in gaming. So it is true right now the 9900k is still the best purely gaming cpu and in actual reviews it can beat it by a significant margin.

With that said I would still rather own a 3900x over the 9900k. Significantly more multi threader performance and is good enough at gaming performance especially at higher resolutions I play at. Personally though I am waiting for the next generation of CPUs before I upgrade from my 8700k. Also still holding onto my 1080 Ti that is over 2.5 years old now.
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#46
AnarchoPrimitiv
Well...even though I just spent $1000+ upgrading my 2700x build (5700xt, 32GB RAM, 2TB Nvme m.2 drive, 2TB Sata SSD,new case, 9x new fans, 360mm CPU loop) I'll 100% be upgrading CPU and motherboard to Ryzen 4000 series, and most likely be increasing CPU core count to at least 12 cores, though I have a tendency to say "hell, $250 more for 16 cores...why not". I'll definitely have to upgrade my RAM though too from 32GB @ 3200Mhz 14-14-14-34 (8GBx4) to at least 32GB of 3600Mhz and probably 16GBx2 so I have to the option to go up to 64GB. Some people say, "how can you use 64GB of RAM?" when honestly I do not understand how anyone really makes due with less than 32GB, though I do a lot more 3D creation, video rendering/editing, audio editing, etc than game playing (though I think I'll be picking up an HTC Cosmos soon for the ultimate Racing Sim).
Posted on Reply
#47
HTC
Dante Uchiha
With the parameters typed up the calculated die has around 75mm². BTW,
Zen 2 CCX is just 31.3mm². And as far as I know, the CCX size should be used in yield calculation.


To my knowledge, the wafers have the whole Zen 2 chiplet and not individual CCXs within each chiplet, so no: you have that wrong.
Posted on Reply
#48
HD64G
NeuralNexus
4000 series will be on 7nm +. AMD won't be moving to 5nm until Zen 5 in 2021 with a new socket.
Zen3 on 7nm+ and AM4 and Zen4 on 5nm and AM5.
Posted on Reply
#49
biffzinker
I see somewhere else their reporting a 300 MHz clock speed uplift over Zen 2 for Zen 3. Would that 300 MHz apply for base clock or boost? Seems like the base clock would get the bump instead of boost.
Posted on Reply
#50
HTC
biffzinker
I see somewhere else their reporting a 300 MHz clock speed uplift over Zen 2 for Zen 3. Would that 300 MHz apply for base clock or boost? Seems like the base clock would get the bump instead of boost.
Makes sense: due to the concentration of the heat, we're already @ a point where the boost clocks are reaching their limit with "conventional" cooling.

By having the base clock higher, while not getting that single thread boost most want, you get a "juicy" all core boost and that ain't bad @ all, though that is much more relevant with servers than with desktop. Besides, the increase in IPC should cover the single thread performance increase.

We shall see ...
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