Friday, December 27th 2019

AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Offer Around 17% Increased Performance

AMD's upcoming Ryzen 4000 series processors will be based on the company's Zen 3 design, which will feature a deeply revised architecture aiming to offer increased performance (surprising no-one). AMD themselves have already said that Zen 3 will offer performance increases in line with the release of new architectures - and we all remember the around 15% increase achieved with the release of Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 series, which surprised even AMD on its performance capabilities. Several sources around the web are quoting an around 17% increase in performance, taking into account increased operating frequencies of Zen 3 (100 to 200 MHz at least for the enterprise solutions, which could pave the way for even higher increases in consumer-geared products) and increased IPC of its core design. The utilization of EUV in the 7 nm process shouldn't have much to do with the increased frequencies of the CPUs, and will mostly be used to reduce the number of masks that are required for production of AMD's Zen 3 CPUs (which in turn will lead to increased yields).

Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2, while integer operations should make do with a 10-12% increase. Cores should remain stable across the board - and with that increase in performance, I'd say an upper limit of 16 physical and 32 logic cores in a consumer-geared CPU is more than enough. Increased IPCs and frequencies will definitely make AMD an even better proposition for all markets - gaming in particular, where Intel still has a (slightly virtual) hold in consumer's minds.
Sources: 3D Center, Red Gaming Tech, Reddit
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101 Comments on AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Offer Around 17% Increased Performance

#51
ShurikN
biffzinker
I see somewhere else their reporting a 300 MHz clock speed uplift over Zen 2 for Zen 3. Would that 300 MHz apply for base clock or boost? Seems like the base clock would get the bump instead of boost.
Seems more likely.
A safe bet would be 200MHz on base and 100MHz on boost.
Posted on Reply
#52
saikamaldoss
Will 4000 be compatible with AM4 ? I bought a hero 8 x570 WiFi and don’t want to buy another board. :/
Posted on Reply
#53
ShrimpBrime
saikamaldoss
Will 4000 be compatible with AM4 ? I bought a hero 8 x570 WiFi and don’t want to buy another board. :/
Rumors say yes.

Also X670 boards, still AM4.

Q4 2020
Posted on Reply
#54
ShurikN
ShrimpBrime
Rumors say yes.

Also X670 boards, still AM4

Q4 2020
Boards or cpu?
Posted on Reply
#56
Valantar
For the people debating 5nm yield (not that it matters as Zen3 is 7nm+, but whatever), Anandtech did an excellent writeup on this a few weeks ago.
For this chip, TSMC has published an average yield of ~80%, with a peak yield per wafer of 90%. Knowing the yield and the die size, we can go to a common online wafer-per-die calculator to extrapolate the defect rate. To make things simple, we assume the chip is square, we can adjust the defect rate in order to equal a yield of 80%. Using the calculator, a 300 mm wafer with a 17.92 mm2 die would produce 3252 dies per wafer. An 80% yield would mean 2602 good dies per wafer, and this corresponds to a defect rate of 1.271 per sq cm.



So, a 17.92 mm2 die isn’t particularly indicative of a modern chip on a high performance process. The first chips on a new process are often mobile processors, especially high-performance mobile processors that can amortize the high cost of moving into a new process. These chips have been increasing in size in recent years, depending on the modem support. For example, the Kirin 990 5G built on 7nm EUV is over 100 mm2, closer to 110 mm2. One could point to AMD’s Zen 2 chiplet as more applicable chip, given it comes from a non-EUV process which is more amenable to moving to 5nm EUV, however something like this will come later and will use high performance libraries to not be as dense.

In that case, let us take the 100 mm2 die as an example of the first mobile processors coming out of TSMC’s process. Again, taking the die as square, a defect rate of 1.271 per cm2 would afford a yield of 32.0%. This is pretty good for a process in the middle of risk production. A yield rate of 32.0% for a 100 mm2 chip would even be sufficient for some early adopters wanting to get ahead of the game.

(For anyone wanting to compare this defect density to the size of Zen 2 chiplet at 10.35x7.37mm, that equates to 41.0% yield.)
Posted on Reply
#57
ixi
64K
AMD is in overdrive lately!
That is good!

Minus Infinity
Surely if you are doing any maths type work with floating point work 50% fop improvement is massive. I do a lot of sims so Zen 3 will be a godsend. Was so close to updating my 3570K to Zen 2 but I’ve decided to wait another year and that means I can also wait for Ampere and Navi+ GPU’s. 2020 is gonna be huge IMO.
I'm waiting for upgrade too. It is time for me to pass 6700k to someone else. Waiting for 4xxx Ryzen cpus.

Funny though. Got the 6700k for 320 euro on release. And soon for being sold for 50 euro or given away to someone for free
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#58
Assimilator
I'm guessing Zen 4/Ryzen 5000/AM5 will be DDR5. New memory type would definitely necessitate switching to a new socket.
Posted on Reply
#59
mechtech
I wonder what Intel (Jim Keller) is going to put out and how it will perform once it's done? And will he go back to AMD after that to compete against his new chip he made while at Intel?

It's not AMD vs Intel

It's Jim vs Jim ;)
Posted on Reply
#60
biffzinker
mechtech
I wonder what Intel (Jim Keller) is going to put out and how it will perform once it's done? And will he go back to AMD after that to compete against his new chip he made while at Intel?

It's not AMD vs Intel

It's Jim vs Jim ;)
I've been curious though how much of Zen was made by Jim.
Posted on Reply
#61
ToxicTaZ
Jack1n
I think this article is a bit misleading when it comes to Intel's upper hand in gaming performance since it is not virtual at all and is completely factual. That being said, with this performance boost they will certainly overtake Intel in gaming as I doubt Intel could match this improvement with their 10900K.
Intel remains the 2019 PC Gaming King!

AMD has nothing that's faster in PC Gaming than the Intel i9-9900KS and i9-9990XE are both 4GHz/5GHz and both OC too 5.2GHz!

Run your top AMD 8 cores 3800X @5.2GHz and see what happens??

9900KS blows away 3900X in Gaming!

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/

I just did a 8700K swop out for a 9900KS....so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.

My next CPU upgrade will be Intel Meteor Lake on PCIe 5.0 Motherboard in 2022, will be 5x the performance of 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is coming..... Just think as if AMD was the Dinosaurs lol
Posted on Reply
#62
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
ToxicTaZ
Intel remains the 2019 PC Gaming King!

AMD has nothing that's faster in PC Gaming than the Intel i9-9900KS and i9-9990XE are both 4GHz/5GHz and both OC too 5.2GHz!

Run your top AMD 8 cores 3800X @5.2GHz and see what happens??

9900KS blows away 3900X in Gaming!

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/

I just did a 8700K swop out for a 9900KS....so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.

My next CPU upgrade will be Intel Meteor Lake on PCIe 5.0 Motherboard in 2022, will be 5x the performance of 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is coming..... Just think as if AMD was the Dinosaurs lol
Sure, if PC gaming is your only concern. If you actually need cores to do something a little more productive than play video games, AMD is actually very competitive right now and while it might not be the absolute best experience, it certainly isn't going to be bad for gaming. The only way Intel looks good right now is if you use a single metric: gaming. In just about every other regard, AMD is doing a fine job with CPUs.
Posted on Reply
#63
Super XP
ZEN3 looks like my next major upgrade.
Can't Wait,
Posted on Reply
#64
Valantar
ToxicTaZ
Intel remains the 2019 PC Gaming King!

AMD has nothing that's faster in PC Gaming than the Intel i9-9900KS and i9-9990XE are both 4GHz/5GHz and both OC too 5.2GHz!

Run your top AMD 8 cores 3800X @5.2GHz and see what happens??

9900KS blows away 3900X in Gaming!

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/

I just did a 8700K swop out for a 9900KS....so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.

My next CPU upgrade will be Intel Meteor Lake on PCIe 5.0 Motherboard in 2022, will be 5x the performance of 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is coming..... Just think as if AMD was the Dinosaurs lol
5x performance? In two years? I'd like to see where that number came from. 3x the cores and a 66% IPC increase? 'cause clocks aren't going to get meaningfully higher (another 2-300MHz is 4-6%). What you're describing is never going to happen. Sure, Ice lake has a very nice 15-18% IPC increase, which meteor might add a bit to. And they'll get more cores for the same power with 10nm. But 5x? Don't be silly.

As for Intel's gaming lead, it's real, but pretty much meaningless. The difference between 160fps or 180fps, or 220 vs. 240fps, is for all practical purposes zero. And that's Intel's best case scenario ATM.
Posted on Reply
#65
Super XP
ToxicTaZ
Intel remains the 2019 PC Gaming King!

AMD has nothing that's faster in PC Gaming than the Intel i9-9900KS and i9-9990XE are both 4GHz/5GHz and both OC too 5.2GHz!

Run your top AMD 8 cores 3800X @5.2GHz and see what happens??

9900KS blows away 3900X in Gaming!

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/

I just did a 8700K swop out for a 9900KS....so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.

My next CPU upgrade will be Intel Meteor Lake on PCIe 5.0 Motherboard in 2022, will be 5x the performance of 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is coming..... Just think as if AMD was the Dinosaurs lol
Nothing blows away either by either CPU companies.
The performance increase utilizing an Intel CPU for PC Gaming is so small, its not worth mentioning.
And when it comes down to Price/Performance AMD offers the best possible choice.
When it comes down to CPU Security, Bar None, AMD is KING.

Valantar
5x performance? In two years? I'd like to see where that number came from. 3x the cores and a 66% IPC increase? 'cause clocks aren't going to get meaningfully higher (another 2-300MHz is 4-6%). What you're describing is never going to happen. Sure, Ice lake has a very nice 15-18% IPC increase, which meteor might add a bit to. And they'll get more cores for the same power with 10nm. But 5x? Don't be silly.

As for Intel's gaming lead, it's real, but pretty much meaningless. The difference between 160fps or 180fps, or 220 vs. 240fps, is for all practical purposes zero. And that's Intel's best case scenario ATM.
Exactly my point lol
These new Intel CPU's require more voltage and run hotter. And the high clocked versions are factory overclocked. And Intel's TDP numbers are also bogus.

Anyhow, ZEN3 should have no problems closing the PC Gaming Performance Gap, where Intel won't be able to use that as an advantage.
Posted on Reply
#66
mechtech
ToxicTaZ
Intel remains the 2019 PC Gaming King!

AMD has nothing that's faster in PC Gaming than the Intel i9-9900KS and i9-9990XE are both 4GHz/5GHz and both OC too 5.2GHz!

Run your top AMD 8 cores 3800X @5.2GHz and see what happens??

9900KS blows away 3900X in Gaming!

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/

I just did a 8700K swop out for a 9900KS....so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.

My next CPU upgrade will be Intel Meteor Lake on PCIe 5.0 Motherboard in 2022, will be 5x the performance of 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is coming..... Just think as if AMD was the Dinosaurs lol
You know what's even more awesome, a good washing machine when you have kids!!!! It also lasts a lot longer than a CPU/GPU before becoming obsolete!!
Posted on Reply
#67
ToxicTaZ
mechtech
You know what's even more awesome, a good washing machine when you have kids!!!! It also lasts a lot longer than a CPU/GPU before becoming obsolete!!
Well said!

R9 3950X and i9-9900KS are the top Dual channel CPUs for 2019... top dollars... Both are expensive outright.... Good thing I got a good trade price for my 8700K for 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is brand new Architecture.... Talking about 32 cores stacked Intel dual channel CPUs...

AMD Zen 5 (6000 series) also all new AM5 socket PCIe 5.0 and upto 64 Cores..... As AMD kills it's upgraded path advantages for all AM4 people.

Everyone will be forced to buy new CPUs because of this Cores war again.
Posted on Reply
#68
trparky
ToxicTaZ
so awesome knowing you have the fastest Gaming CPU around.
And an empty bank account. :roll:
Aquinus
The only way Intel looks good right now is if you use a single metric: gaming.
I'd rather have close to Intel-like performance for a significantly lower price. If I have to spend double to get the best performance, I couldn't give a rat's ass. AMD will get my money, no doubt about that.
Posted on Reply
#69
Super XP
ToxicTaZ
Well said!

R9 3950X and i9-9900KS are the top Dual channel CPUs for 2019... top dollars... Both are expensive outright.... Good thing I got a good trade price for my 8700K for 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is brand new Architecture.... Talking about 32 cores stacked Intel dual channel CPUs...

AMD Zen 5 (6000 series) also all new AM5 socket PCIe 5.0 and upto 64 Cores..... As AMD kills it's upgraded path advantages for all AM4 people.

Everyone will be forced to buy new CPUs because of this Cores war again.
But AMD didn't kill the upgrade path of Socket AM4. They've been supporting it through ZEN, ZEN+, ZEN2 and soon to come ZEN3. That my friend is incredible.
ZEN4 and future ZEN5/6 etc., requires a new Socket AM5 and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Posted on Reply
#70
trparky
Super XP
But AMD didn't kill the upgrade path of Socket AM4. They've been supporting it through ZEN, ZEN+, ZEN2 and soon to come ZEN3. That my friend is incredible.
ZEN4 and future ZEN5/6 etc., requires a new Socket AM5 and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Much better than Intel who changes stuff every time the traffic light turns red.

@ToxicTaZ But go ahead, keep buying Intel's overpriced rehash of a rehash of a rehash. I'm sure their stockholders love the fanboi that you are. Oy vey.
Posted on Reply
#71
Super XP
ToxicTaZ
Well said!

R9 3950X and i9-9900KS are the top Dual channel CPUs for 2019... top dollars... Both are expensive outright.... Good thing I got a good trade price for my 8700K for 9900KS.

Intel Meteor Lake is brand new Architecture.... Talking about 32 cores stacked Intel dual channel CPUs...

AMD Zen 5 (6000 series) also all new AM5 socket PCIe 5.0 and upto 64 Cores..... As AMD kills it's upgraded path advantages for all AM4 people.

Everyone will be forced to buy new CPUs because of this Cores war again.
Intel Meteor Lake is brand new Architecture that might come out around 2025 if Intel is lucky.
ZEN3 should completely close the gap for PC Gaming, where Intel will no longer hold that very little FPS advantage. Can't wait for that. Lol
Posted on Reply
#72
ToxicTaZ
trparky
And an empty bank account. :roll:

I'd rather have close to Intel-like performance for a significantly lower price. If I have to spend double to get the best performance, I couldn't give a rat's ass. AMD will get my money, no doubt about that.
As I last looked the 3900X & 3950X are both not cheap by no means. Hmm funny how the 9900KS is faster then 3950X in gaming performance with half the cores.

Funny there's a lot of people saying... Similar or Intel-like performance....these days lol

Intel 10 series will continue to be PC Gaming King.
Posted on Reply
#73
trparky
ToxicTaZ
Hmm funny how the 9900KS is faster then 3950X in gaming performance with half the cores.
I couldn't give a rat's ass! If I have to pay more to get an extra five to ten percent more, it doesn't make much financial sense. Only a true fanboi would be willing to spend that much cash when there's a cheaper alternative that comes within a few percentage points.
ToxicTaZ
Funny there's a lot of people saying... Similar or Intel-like performance....these days lol
Yes, because if I can get close to Intel performance for a fraction of the cost I'm going to do so.
ToxicTaZ
Intel 10 series will continue to be PC Gaming King.
Be prepared to get yourself a nuclear power station-style cooling tower to cool the sucker.
Posted on Reply
#74
ToxicTaZ
Super XP
Intel Meteor Lake is brand new Architecture that might come out around 2025 if Intel is lucky.
ZEN3 should completely close the gap for PC Gaming, where Intel will no longer hold that very little FPS advantage. Can't wait for that. Lol
The over priced 3950X couldn't outperform 9900KS PC Gaming Performance with new architecture and double the cores.

I guess AMD will need 20 cores to fight Intel 10 cores to keep tradition.
Posted on Reply
#75
trparky
ToxicTaZ
The over priced 3950X couldn't outperform 9900KS PC Gaming Performance with new architecture and double the cores.

I guess AMD will need 20 cores to fight Intel 10 cores to keep tradition.
Tell me man, do you own Intel stock? You gotta be to want to keep defending them jackasses.
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