I'll be honest, Intel could and can mess-up their naming all they wanted (during P4 it was a good start), we still have the sSpec to unfold what kind of silicon we have in front of us, also CPU-Z could translate that.
AMD didn't even had to go to these lengths to protect sales below the €1000 mark, people would still buy cheap-plastic laden big-screen graphic calculators as long as the sticker seemed similar enough to the more expensive ones, like they did in the Bulldozer mobile APU mind-cramp era (Ex-xxxx and anything below a A8-xxxx).
But this, this is a game changer:

Not even listing what the dependency of the other factors (MY, Power, Segment, Feature Isolation?) influences this one is really making me think at some point we are just rolling our dice when buying laptops.

Surely AMD would never just rename an old chip and sell it as a new generation.

WTaF again. First MSI MB pricing, now AMD naming.

We have a forum full of tech geeks confused, imagine the average joe trying to decipher this. Dick move from AMD. How many will be conned into getting Rembrandt when they thought they'd be getting Phoenix say.

I hope they actually make Phoenix Point and Dragon available this time, Rembrandt supply is a sad joke.

All i care about here is that they provided context and an explanation


I'll never forget how pissed my brother was when he bought a 4th gen i7 laptop to replace a 2nd gen, and it went from a 4C 8T to a 2C 4T, because intel decided "i7" means anything from 2 to 16 cores


Generation (which they change once a year)
series (which has two numbers for a lower and higher performance model)
Architecture* (This is so they can mix Zen 3 and 4 on one socket, for example)
Feature isolation (This wont matter to most people. It'll be for refresh models, 3D cache or higher iGPU variants.)
TDP: fuck yes. praise them all day for this. Go spend time in the throttlestop forum and look how every post is a pissed off intel user wondering why their 28W CPU is running at 15W because the TDP values are optional, and not advertised


*This one is a big win for transparency since you can get APU's and CPU's from different generations.
They're avoiding the situation of user confusion buying a new product based on an older design - which keeps happening like how the APU's are usually made from one gen old designs.


What people forget is the average user will find out what value matters to them (Ex: The year) and roll with it, ignoring the other values. This is a lot better than the fucking chaos we get from intel laptop CPUs where you can have three different TDP values and no idea what one the CPU will use since the motherboard decides.


TL;DR: It's better to have all the info, even if you dont like the method.

1st gen i7 had the same scenario, 7xxM and 8xxM were 4C 8T while 6xxM were 2C 4T.
And 1st i5 were no different. Intel just followed suit in the next generations in the way that they could confuse the mid-level market.
But yes, IIRC, 4th gen is when they added "U", "H", "MQ" and so on to the model names just to have broader reach in confusing people.

What people forget is the average user will find out what value matters to them (Ex: The year) and roll with it, ignoring the other values.

The average user will not be valuing that buying a year(s) old uArch will mean that AMD cuts the driver support earlier.

zlobbyThen stay away from AMD laptops for crying out loud!

Commenting on TPU suggest a certain knowledge of all things computer, yet you are confused? Then what about the average Joe who was told 'Here, take this. It's intel, they are the best!', hm?

AMD made it loud and clear. It's now up to the discretion of every reseller to advise their customers right, or up to the customers to do their due dilligence. Always was and always will be.

Well how can you know what wattage is the GPU when they are called the same, same with CPUs, timing (sub-timing) for memory, is memory soldered or not... etc
It's confusing and worse the information is very difficult to find if not impossible.

yes.
fuck you too, amd.
thanks for nothing.

PapaTaipeiI am 100% sure all these names are specifically engineered to confuse the buyers.

I mean:

And I literally can't stress it enough!

Please point on that picture where AMD touched you?

Why not use Athlon for Zen1-2+ ? 7540HS heavily outperforms a 9510U... You can't educate a normal consumer enough to make them understand that, this has the potential to be super deceptive. It goes against what both AMD and Intel have been doing since forever. This is going to be a pain for years to come when people will ask me for advice. Never thought I'd praise Intel for their naming scheme, but at least Bob will understand higher = better. If there's not a huge difference between Intel and AMD, I'm just going to recommend Intel stuff. i5 13xxx 16GB 512GB is going to be much easier and less of a headache to tell people, and you won't get questions.

i5 13xxx 16GB 512GB
vs
Get a Ryzen 5 7xxx or 8xxx but only if the third digit is 4 or 5, but you can get a good deal on a 6800. Yes even though the third digit is 0 and is 2000 less. No actually the 8530u is an older less powerful processor because it's Zen 3 and a Ryzen 5 so 6 core, the 6800 is Zen 3+ and 8 core. Oh yea and don't forget 16GB RAM and... oh you already bought an 8GB, what model? Oh yea that's soldered RAM. These days in 2024 Chrome will only open 2 tabs before filling up your 8GB

Nope. And I'm a f***king AMD fanboy.

ymdhisThey always released older archs in a current series, ryzen 3000 series had Zen, Zen+ and Zen2 in it. This is also a normal industry practice that has been going on since decades, remember the Geforce 4 MX?
The difference is now that you can tell them apart from the number.

Still, one number for the architecture would be enough. No one cares about the model year.

This way, AMD can release the exact same CPU in two different years, one being 7000-series, the other 8000-series, and the average Joe would have no idea.

_JP_1st gen i7 had the same scenario, 7xxM and 8xxM were 4C 8T while 6xxM were 2C 4T.
And 1st i5 were no different. Intel just followed suit in the next generations in the way that they could confuse the mid-level market.
But yes, IIRC, 4th gen is when they added "U", "H", "MQ" and so on to the model names just to have broader reach in confusing people.


The average user will not be valuing that buying a year(s) old uArch will mean that AMD cuts the driver support earlier.

The quads where 45nm, and the dual cores where 32nm.

I think it is very transparent and explained to a point there can be no schemes.
on a side note, I'm really curious about that 9w CPUs for laptops :cool:. Didn't know these were planned. I hope it is not only those cheapo Athlons

Have people not yet realised that laptop processor names change every year? 'New' processor in 2022 must have 6000 numbering. In 2021, it was 5000, in 2020, it's 4000 and so on. Architecture never mattered. I'm actually happy that just by seeing 3rd digit, now I'll know architecture. I don't like it but I understand that AMD will sell more processors this way.

n-sterWhy not use Athlon for Zen1-2+ ? 7540HS heavily outperforms a 9510U... You can't educate a normal consumer enough to make them understand that, this has the potential to be super deceptive. It goes against what both AMD and Intel have been doing since forever. This is going to be a pain for years to come when people will ask me for advice. Never thought I'd praise Intel for their naming scheme, but at least Bob will understand higher = better. If there's not a huge difference between Intel and AMD, I'm just going to recommend Intel stuff. i5 13xxx 16GB 512GB is going to be much easier and less of a headache to tell people, and you won't get questions.

i5 13xxx 16GB 512GB
vs
Get a Ryzen 5 7xxx or 8xxx but only if the third digit is 4 or 5, but you can get a good deal on a 6800. Yes even though the third digit is 0 and is 2000 less. No actually the 8530u is an older less powerful processor because it's Zen 3 and a Ryzen 5 so 6 core, the 6800 is Zen 3+ and 8 core. Oh yea and don't forget 16GB RAM and... oh you already bought an 8GB, what model? Oh yea that's soldered RAM. These days in 2024 Chrome will only open 2 tabs before filling up your 8GB

Nope. And I'm a f***king AMD fanboy.

So, to see if I get you right - 4-digit naming scheme confuses you and because of that you will recommend intel to your friends?

zlobbySo, to see if I get you right - 4-digit naming scheme confuses you and because of that you will recommend intel to your friends?

No, I understand what an architecture is, they don't. Friends, family, coworkers all ask me recommendations, I don't have time to look at all the options. I give them guidelines. They will be confused no matter how many times you tell them the third digit should be X or higher, they'll ask questions, they'll just send me two or more computer options because they are intimidated by the naming. They will forget and buy the higher number because it looks like a deal

Try to think like a normal user.

n-sterNo, I understand what an architecture is, they don't. Friends, family, coworkers all ask me recommendations, I don't have time to look at all the options. I give them guidelines. They will be confused no matter how many times you tell them the third digit should be X or higher, they'll ask questions, they'll just send me two or more computer options because they are intimidated by the naming. They will forget and buy the higher number because it looks like a deal

Try to think like a normal user.

And herein lies your mistake.

Poor souls come knocking on your door, asking you for help and what do you do? Acting up all busy, not being able to point them to the official naming scheme (not that it is a top secret or anything) and throw a 2-3 explanations? Even I who know so many people still somehow manage to ask what they are going to use their PC for, and then throw them a narrowed range of options for them to choose for.

And because you put your own interest before the faith others put in you to help them, you simply point them to intel because 'bigger is better'? See, you either earn the trust and the respect of poeple who look up to you or you hope to live to see the consequences of your choices.

If you trully don't have the time to explain it well to your friends, then just say so and give them a disclaimer.

How would you feel if your doctor friend didn't take their time to research your simptoms and just give you some over-the-counter pill as a general suggestion?
Or I have never heard of someone buying a car, say 2019 Mustang and get the 2.3L engine instead the 5.2L by mistake.

zlobbyAnd herein lies your mistake.

Poor souls come knocking on your door, asking you for help and what do you do? Acting up all busy, not being able to point them to the official naming scheme (not that it is a top secret or anything) and throw a 2-3 explanations? Even I who know so many people still somehow manage to ask what they are going to use their PC for, and then throw them a narrowed range of options for them to choose for.

And because you put your own interest before the faith others put in you to help them, you simply point them to intel because 'bigger is better'? See, you either earn the trust and the respect of poeple who look up to you or you hope to live to see the consequences of your choices.

If you trully don't have the time to explain it well to your friends, then just say so and give them a disclaimer.

How would you feel if your doctor friend didn't take their time to research your simptoms and just give you some over-the-counter pill as a general suggestion?
Or I have never heard of someone buying a car, say 2019 Mustang and get the 2.3L engine instead the 5.2L by mistake.

I do ask them what they would use it for of course and give more time to my closer friends/family. I do plenty for other people, that's WHY I have no time.

I don't get your 2.3 vs 5.2L... No one will be like bigger engine better with no consequences to fuel economy? Cars cost a lot more money than the difference between 1 laptop and another. Health is a little more important than Barbara buying a slightly less good computer or paying too much. It takes too much research to go find the good deals in that particular moment and they can figure it out, cheapest with at least X isn't hard to follow. I'm confused as to how you don't understand how much time and effort it is to talk it through with non-techsavvy people. Very smart people, doctors, lawyers, engineers already don't trust themselves to pick a computer and have difficulty grasping some things. Try going through the exercise with a few non-techsavvy people, it'll be apparent relatively quickly.

And yea, don't assume I don't care about others. I'm not going to start boasting about everything I do, but I had to learn that the best way to help everyone is to match your effort according to how much it will matter to them and what kind of support or need they have. There is a lot of things I regret, I wish I had learned that sooner.

This reminds me of when Intel Core i7s for laptops were like desktop i5s!

You just tell a person the first one is the year (or how new it is) and to get higher up in each category as they can afford
Thats it. So hard.


Seriously, look at how intel do it now and tell me it's simpler? I had to learn to do scrolling screenshots to capture all of it, instead of a single image

So you dont want atom, M, pentium or celeron, you want an i series with a bigger number
Why the bigger number is better keeps changing since i7 covers 2 cores to 20 cores, so don't forget position in range and suffix, G F K T Q HQ and Y!

RJARRRPCGPThis reminds me of when Intel Core i7s for laptops were like desktop i5s!

You can still get dual core i7's to this day, that are more like a crippled desktop i3

RandallFlaggPeople like you defending clearly indefensible underhanded practices of a major corporation out of a mindless brand loyalty is frankly disgusting. Tons of people are going to go out and buy these laptops thinking they are the latest and greatest after reading a Zen 4 review.

If Intel rebranded a gen 10 Skylake part to 12XXX you'd be all over them. Go ahead and lie and tell me you wouldn't.

Nah dude. 5700U and 5800U differ a lot in terms of pricing.

I saw 5700U processors in 650-800$ laptops. You got 8 cores, at 28W at that price. So what if it wasn't zen 3? The laptops were competing with 11-th gen, 4-core intel "i7". If you want to talk about deceptive bullshit, talk about the number of misinformed users that got 4 core CPUs in 1600-2500$ premium laptops in 2021 with an i7 in the name, when AMD was selling 8 cores in 650-800$ laptops at the same power range. I could barely justify recommending 800$ zenbooks with 1080p perfect OLEDs with those processors in them to friends and family, and these fuckers were putting them in 1200-1600$ laptops.