oxrufiioxoI've seen this story somewhere before.....


Honestly if this happens it isn't good for anyone unless separated from Intel the foundry business flourishes. Gloflo has found their niche for sure but it's not like that has helped us much as consumers as of late. TSMC needs a competitor if not to keep prices in check to at least continue to innovate and push technology forward.

lasNah motherboard vendors did, just like motherboard vendors fried 7000X3D chips

No-one really cares, Intel raised warranty

MacZWhen I say MBA leadership, I mean people solely focused on financial results. Same with Boeing, actually.

AssimilatorTBH I am slowly getting the feeling that Intel is too far gone for even an engineer like Gelsinger to fix.

TechLurkerIdly, it's worth noting that when Intel was "soft-splitting" Intel Fabs to become its own semi-independent company for reporting and business purposes, they did state that they would be willing to do business with AMD on their most advanced nodes, processes, and tech options such as Foveros, since the main goal of their fabs is to book it up, not left idle, and keeping whatever company secrets they're working with secret from the Intel design and planning side.

If they choose to hard-split the fabs in order to get more business and further reduce the risk of conflicting interests with rivals' designs, the fabs could possibly become a powerhouse if non-Intel groups are able to leverage their IP better than Intel could and come up with competitive chips on their nodes and processes. Such as AMD maybe putting Foveros to better use than Intel could, given their longer experience with chiplet designs, or Qualcomm doing similar, in theoretical examples. As well, having more companies simply booking and doing business with their fabs would be more important to Intel Fabs than just mostly doing Intel-only chips, and could help them stay in the game.

kondaminThose companies are pigeon coops that have talent float from one to the other. Just look at people like Jim Keller
they all know what they are working on already

john_It does. OEMs move the markets and we seen that even at times when AMD was offering the superior product, OEMs where staying fixed at Intel. Why? Because it could deliver the quantities OEMs wanted. As long as Intel is having those fabs working for them, X86 will remain the main architecture in the market, except in phones obviously. Of course Intel needs to catch up with TSMC in process nodes, because we are seeing for years now (AMD vs Intel) that architecture alone isn't enough when someone is 2-3 nodes ahead. The X86 market would have been completely different if AMD and Intel where at the same node. So, Intel needs a valid process near at TSMC's level and fabs. If they fail, OEMs will start going faster and faster to ARM solutions because X86 will have lost it's main advantage and that's Intel's capacity. When was Intel and X86 competitive to ARM in efficiency? When Intel had the advantage over TSMC and everyone else. When Intel had a clear process advantage X86 Atoms looked efficient enough compared to ARM SOCs. Intel was purring billions back then in promoting it's chips, hoping to win the tablet market. I guess they where sure they will retain that process advantage for many many years. When Intel lost the manufacturing advantage, it just abandoned any idea of fighting ARM in the tablet market. The same will happen if they sell their fabs and become just another customer of those fabs. OEMs will start looking at ARM SOCs as the best solution for them. A few steps back in performance that most people wouldn't realise, a few steps ahead in battery efficiency that most people would realise, probably cheaper platform costs.


I do want them to fix their problems. I do want Samsung to become competitive in process node with TSMC to see if AMD can become more competitive in the market, having more wafers at their disposale. I don't see SMIC doing anything in the next few years, because of US restrictions. Maybe in the next decade when they have figured out how to produce advanced equipment the way ASML does.


AMD is relying on TSMC that's why it can't win OEMs. Because it needs to wait for TSMC to serv Apple, then Nvidia, then Qualcomm and then AMD. Now it's also intel in TSMC's catalog of customers and guess what. Intel enjoys higher revenues, meaning they can also pay higher prices than AMD for TSMC's wafers. So AMD goes even further down in the priority list.

EternitIntel is paying to TSMC to improve TSMC foundries and put Intel out of business. I wouldn’t be surprised if TSMC is sabotaging to get Intel out of business. For them fabless customers are better than Intel.

watzupkenMy take, whatever Intel is doing now will come back to haunt them. Firstly, the messaging is very wrong when Intel chose TSMC over their own foundry to produce their CPUs. It’s never been the case. Which will surely raise questions about the quality of Intel foundry when they choose to skip it entirely. If you are looking for a cutting edge foundry, you likely won’t miss this point.

lasApple will always be top-priority at TSMC. TSMC is where they are today, due to Apple money.

Nvidia don't even use TSMCs prime-nodes, even tho they can afford it. They will in 2025 tho. Blackwell - both AI and consumer - is 4nm again, just like 4000 series and Hopper. They don't need to rush to 3nm, they already dominate using a cheaper node.

The only companies to use 3nm TSMC is Apple and soon Intel.

I don't see AMD using 3nm before late 2025 / early 2026. They don't have the funds. Spent 5 billions on ZT Systems recently. They are chasing AI, trying to make a dime and moon like Nvidia stock.

RDNA5 on 3nm (or better) is the next big thing from AMD. Lets hope they can deliver 4090/5080 performane by then. They will not touch 5090 at all, even tho Nvidia gets a 1+ year headstart.

RNDA4 will be another joke. 4/5nm with mid-end focus.

OnasiN3, on the other hand, is a fully new smaller node. It’s a significant advancement. The elephant in the room, of course, is how exactly Intel 3nm is going to compare to TSMC 3nm. The whole nomenclature has become kinda pointless, really, since it’s just a vaguely broad denomination.

remixedcatSo wait the lack of oems is not nbecause if strongarming???

N3utroRemove Pat Gelsinger before it's too late!

trparkyI wonder if TSMC would be interested in buying the fabs off of Intel. OK sure, they'd have to invest a shit load of money afterwards to bring them up to the fabs that they have in Taiwan but not nearly as much as having to build a new fab from the ground up.

64KI wonder how the money that Intel took from the CHIPS Act would affect who they could sell their fabs to? Or maybe not at all if they didn't ever take any money but were just approved for it. If they did take the billions of dollars then surely they would have to repay it on top of all the other financial mess they are in.

remixedcatPlot twist.... amd or Nvidia buys the fabs

trparkyI doubt that AMD or nVidia would buy Intel's fabs. For one, AMD spun off their fabs years ago which became Global Foundries so I highly doubt AMD would want to give having their own fabs a go again. As for nVidia, sure... they have a lot of money but running a fab is really expensive as Intel is finding out the hard way.

The only reason why TSMC got to where they are today is because everyone practically threw money their way. It's easy to spend money when it's someone else's money.