Thursday, July 9th 2015

AMD Halts Optimizations for Mantle API

AMD has halted optimizations for its Mantle 3D graphics API, for current and future graphics cards. The cards will retain Mantle API support at the driver-level, to run existing Mantle applications, but will not receive any performance optimizations from AMD. Launched around 2013, Mantle had a short stint with AAA PC games, such as Battlefield 4, Thief, Sniper Elite III, and Star Citizen, offering noticeably higher performance than DirectX 11. The API improves the way the CPU-end of 3D graphics rendering is handled, particularly with today's multi-core/multi-threaded processors, bringing about significant increases to the number of draw-calls that can be parsed by a GPU.

AMD will now focus on DirectX 12 and Vulkan (OpenGL successor by Khronos Group). Why the company effectively killed its own 2-year old and promising 3D API is anyone's guess. We postulate that Mantle could have been used by AMD to steer Microsoft to introduce vital bare-metal optimizations it reserved for the console, to the PC ecosystem with DirectX 12. It appears to have served that purpose, and as if to hold up to its end of a bargain, AMD 'withdrew' Mantle. DirectX 12 will feature a super-efficient command-buffer that scales across any number of CPU cores, and will have huge increases in draw-calls over DirectX 11. The new API makes its official debut with Windows 10, later this month. AMD's Graphics CoreNext 1.1 and 1.2 GPUs support DirectX 12 (feature level 12_0), as do rival NVIDIA's "Maxwell" GPUs. The company will continue to nurture Mantle as an "innovation base" for its upcoming tech, such as LiquidVR.
Source: PC Gamer
Add your own comment

69 Comments on AMD Halts Optimizations for Mantle API

#1
Relayer
It's been handed over to Khronos to use for the basis of Vulkan. Khronos actually thanked AMD for giving them Mantle when they announced Vulkan. From what I understand Mantle is continuing on with AMD with Liquid VR. I guess we'll see as time goes on.
Posted on Reply
#3
haswrong
Relayer, post: 3312226, member: 64691"
It's been handed over to Khronos to use for the basis of Vulkan. Khronos actually thanked AMD for giving them Mantle when they announced Vulkan. From what I understand Mantle is continuing on with AMD with Liquid VR. I guess we'll see as time goes on.
and hopefully amd will not continue releasing underperforming graphics hardware.. (or at least showcases how it can prevail over the competition setup at least in some scenarios..)
Posted on Reply
#4
mirakul
Relayer, post: 3312226, member: 64691"
It's been handed over to Khronos to use for the basis of Vulkan. Khronos actually thanked AMD for giving them Mantle when they announced Vulkan. From what I understand Mantle is continuing on with AMD with Liquid VR. I guess we'll see as time goes on.
Yes, it's a good move for AMD. Now they have both Dx12 and Vulkan on their side. The red camp looks quite strong for the next era. By the way the news is old.

Note: I'm expecting for ignorant dudes who translate this news into "AMD did bad as always, go die" to populate this thread. Just another day on TPU :)
Posted on Reply
#5
haswrong
mirakul, post: 3312232, member: 131518"
Yes, it's a good move for AMD. Now they have both Dx12 and Vulkan on their side. The red camp looks quite strong for the next era. By the way the news is old.

Note: I'm expecting for ignorant dudes who translate this news into "AMD did bad as always, go die" to populate this thread. Just another day on TPU :)
has the poor performance in project cars been repaired yet?
Posted on Reply
#6
Yorgos
http://www.pcgamer.com/amd-halts-mantle-optimizations-for-current-and-future-graphics-cards/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2894036/mantle-is-a-vulkan-amds-dead-graphics-api-rises-from-the-ashes-as-opengls-successor.html
It's called "news" recycling and those "news" are 90% based on 1+ year old references while AMD has clearly stated that Mantle is dead, start focusing on dx12(and vulkan)
Also, this...
http://cdn.overclock.net/4/4f/900x900px-LL-4f4007fd_CBBu9COWwAAPzZB.jpeg
Posted on Reply
#7
R-T-B
haswrong, post: 3312238, member: 133560"
has the poor performance in project cars been repaired yet?

Unsure what that has to do with Mantle's deprecation.

And for the slow, phasing out Mantle and completely stopping driver optimizations ARE seperate issues for the media to report.
Posted on Reply
#8
mirakul
haswrong, post: 3312238, member: 133560"
has the poor performance in project cars been repaired yet?
Kudos for your "ON topic" comment. You even quoted my note, well done.
I think this will answer your question
Posted on Reply
#9
Johnny2000
mirakul, post: 3312232, member: 131518"
Note: I'm expecting for ignorant dudes who translate this news into "AMD did bad as always, go die" to populate this thread. Just another day on TPU :)
Isn't it funny how the same people who always says that "I hope AMD will be able to catch up with Intel/Nvidia so we don't get a monopoly and the price can come down",
are also the same people who tell you what a complete moron you are if you A: Owning an AMD product or B: Planning on buying an AMD product. :)

Edit: typo
Posted on Reply
#11
haswrong
mirakul, post: 3312242, member: 131518"
Kudos for your "ON topic" comment. You even quoted my note, well done.
I think this will answer your question

if it can 60fps in 1440p while aa is on, well, ill be happy. cant tell from the 1080p, but hopefully it will be enough in windows 9 (very wrongly named 10 - and i might not buy win10 just because megahard skipped consecutive number creating a complete discontinuity without asking the users. the same $hit as with removing the start menu)

you kinda invited any off topic reactions byt typing the "Note:" at the end of your contribution, wouldnt you say?
Posted on Reply
#12
john_
That's a bad decision. They should kept supporting it for at least 6 months after DX12. At least for Fury X cards they should had offered full updated optimizations and support for the games that use Mantle.
Mantle was great, it moved the industry forward, it is in Vulkan, but this decision it absolutely ridiculous. That's how you destroy your image.
Posted on Reply
#13
haswrong
john_, post: 3312260, member: 137560"
That's a bad decision. They should kept supporting it for at least 6 months after DX12. At least for Fury X cards they should had offered full updated optimizations and support for the games that use Mantle.
Mantle was great, it moved the industry forward, it is in Vulkan, but this decision it absolutely ridiculous. That's how you destroy your image.
amd is one big wtf copmpany.. but maybe theyre bound by some agreement with microsoft.. but we live in a highly non-transparent world so we cannot know whats behind this.
Posted on Reply
#14
ZoneDymo
Kinda doubt Mantle had anything to do with DX12 being what it is, its not like MS suddenly radically changed its approach on the new DX(12) as soon as they heard what AMD was doing with Mantle.

Mantle was disappointing to be sure, but what hurts me more is that audio improvement that was promised.
A gaming experience is really determined by 2 factors, Video and Audio, yet the time effort and money goes 95% to video and 5% to audio....

I was hoping Mantle would bring the importance of good audio back but it seems like I need to dream on.
Posted on Reply
#15
arbiter
haswrong, post: 3312265, member: 133560"
amd is one big wtf copmpany.. but maybe theyre bound by some agreement with microsoft.. but we live in a highly non-transparent world so we cannot know whats behind this.
Pfft no mantle was on life support second DX12 was announced. Only AMD supported that proprietary API and what is point of game company using that vs DX12. It was dead about 1 month after it was announced.
Posted on Reply
#16
brian111
arbiter, post: 3312275, member: 106403"
Pfft no mantle was on life support second DX12 was announced. Only AMD supported that proprietary API and what is point of game company using that vs DX12. It was dead about 1 month after it was announced.
Yeah, it's not like AMD has a bunch of people to spend time on something like this.
Posted on Reply
#17
the54thvoid
If AMD gave MS the hot mantle poker up the ass to make the time improvements in the DX api then they deserve full credit.
It doesn't matter mantle support is ending. It didn't reach a big enough section of gamers or games, I guess primarily because MS ran with DX 12 improvements.
This isn't bad news, its called progress.

Do we need DX12 coded games and how long before we see the benefits in the real world?
Posted on Reply
#18
FrustratedGarrett
haswrong, post: 3312230, member: 133560"
and hopefully amd will not continue releasing underperforming graphics hardware.. (or at least showcases how it can prevail over the competition setup at least in some scenarios..)
By which you mean FuryX I take? The FuryX isn't under-performing because of its engineering, it's under-performing because it lacks game optimized DX11 drivers. Their latest WHQL driver took over half a year to release.

AMD is most likely counting on DX12 and Vulkan to take off, and for DX11 to die off soon. Look at the FuryX perfomrance in games for which AMD released fixes and/or Beta drivers. In FarCry4 for example, or AC Unity AMD does quite well:

Posted on Reply
#19
RejZoR
Who cares how long driver takes to release if the old one works perfectly fine? Or do you constantly want to update drivers and constantly have them broken?
Posted on Reply
#20
FrustratedGarrett
RejZoR, post: 3312314, member: 1515"
Who cares how long driver takes to release if the old one works perfectly fine? Or do you constantly want to update drivers and constantly have them broken?
With DX11 games you need to optimize drivers for each game because execution and resource management is almost entirely done through drivers.
Posted on Reply
#21
Prima.Vera
FordGT90Concept, post: 3312248, member: 60463"
Vulkan effectively is Mantle.
No. Mantle was a dumbed down version of OpenGL, just like 3dfx's GLide was some time ago.
Posted on Reply
#22
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
the54thvoid, post: 3312296, member: 79251"
If AMD gave MS the hot mantle poker up the ass to make the time improvements in the DX api then they deserve full credit.
It doesn't matter mantle support is ending. It didn't reach a big enough section of gamers or games, I guess primarily because MS ran with DX 12 improvements.
This isn't bad news, its called progress.

Do we need DX12 coded games and how long before we see the benefits in the real world?
Is suspect Direct3D 12 and Mantle were co-developed but Microsoft was dragging their feet because DirectX 12 needed to be launched with a new version of Windows. AMD decided to take the tech they shared with Microsoft and make it public early so they can recover some of their development costs. AMD knew Mantle was going to be a short-lived thing from the day they decided to go public with it.

I don't think there is any Mantle code in Direct3D 12; Microsoft just used the principle of it as a starting point. Vulkan, on the other hand, uses huge portions of Mantle code.

Prima.Vera, post: 3312324, member: 98685"
No. Mantle was a dumbed down version of OpenGL, just like 3dfx's GLide was some time ago.
Not dead yet: AMD’s Mantle powers new Vulkan API, VR efforts
ExtremeTech
The first thing Mantle has transformed into is an API we’ve already spent time talking about yesterday — Vulkan. One thing we’ve known for months, and confirmed with developers independently, is that the Khronos Group’s Vulkan API is substantially based upon AMD’s Mantle. AMD’s blog post states that “Khronos Group has chosen the best and brightest parts of Mantle to serve as the foundation for Vulkan.”
Long story short, AMD wants to see gaming on *nix survive and the only way to do that is with non-proprietary tech (e.g. OpenGL). OpenGL can't compete with Direct3D 12 and AMD knew that. At the same time, AMD can't be paying off developers to use Mantle (e.g. DICE) nor can they afford to keep updating it (they have enough difficulty supporting their own hardware drivers). AMD threw Mantle at Khronos to kickstart Vulkan development removing a financial burden from AMD as well as ensuring open standards stay relevant. It was win-win for AMD and Khronos.
Posted on Reply
#23
SetsunaFZero
haswrong, post: 3312238, member: 133560"
has the poor performance in project cars been repaired yet?

you obviously have no clue whats going on. Project Cars is using nvidia Game Works which is crippling amd performance
Posted on Reply
#24
ZoneDymo
SetsunaFZero, post: 3312345, member: 79285"
you obviously have no clue whats going on. Project Cars is using nvidia Game Works which is crippling amd performance
and in general Nvidia performance as well :P
Posted on Reply
#25
Relayer
haswrong, post: 3312230, member: 133560"
and hopefully amd will not continue releasing underperforming graphics hardware.. (or at least showcases how it can prevail over the competition setup at least in some scenarios..)
Not too off topic.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment