Friday, May 19th 2017

AMD Ryzen 2000 Series Processors Based on Refined 14 nm Process

At its Analyst Day follow-up conference call, AMD confirmed that the company could build a new generation of Ryzen processors on 14 nm (albeit refined 14 nm) process, before transitioning to "Zen2," which will be built on the 7 nm process. As the first "Zen" based products built on the 14 nm process, the Ryzen "Summit Ridge" processors are based on the current-generation 14 nm FinFET process. AMD hopes to tap into a more refined version of this process before moving on to "Zen 2."

This could indicate that AMD's next generation of Ryzen processors, likely the Ryzen # 2xxx series, could be minor incremental updates to the current product stack, likely in the form of higher clock speeds or better energy-efficiency facilitated by the refined 14 nm process, but nothing major in the way of micro-architecture. Assuming the current Ryzen product stack, which will be augmented by Ryzen 3 series, Ryzen Pro series, and Ryzen APUs in the second half of 2017; last till mid-2018, one could expect a follow-up or refreshed Ryzen # 2xxx series run up to another year, before AMD makes a "leapfrog" upgrade to the 7 nm process with "Zen2," in all likelihood, by 2019.
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46 Comments on AMD Ryzen 2000 Series Processors Based on Refined 14 nm Process

#1
RejZoR
Cool. If AMD can pull 4.0 GHz base clock and up to 4.2 GHz Boost from "upcoming" R7 2800X, that would be massive thing by itself. If they can get any higher, even more so. I really hope AMD's future ZEN CPU's are going to evolve nicely, because we can then look at very interesting and competitive market not entirely dominated anymore by Intel only.

Also, if AMD can manage to refine those 4c/8t CPU's far enough to pull 4.5 GHz from them, they could seriously threaten existence of 7700K...
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#2
Vayra86
Please, give me that glorious 4.4-4.5 Ghz and I'll be ALL OVER THAT
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#3
ERazer
i can really see myself switching next upgrade, GJ AMD
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#4
Captain_Tom
RejZoR said:
Cool. If AMD can pull 4.0 GHz base clock and up to 4.2 GHz Boost from "upcoming" R7 2800X, that would be massive thing by itself. If they can get any higher, even more so. I really hope AMD's future ZEN CPU's are going to evolve nicely, because we can then look at very interesting and competitive market not entirely dominated anymore by Intel only.

Also, if AMD can manage to refine those 4c/8t CPU's far enough to pull 4.5 GHz from them, they could seriously threaten existence of 7700K...
I am expecting the 2800 and 2600 to be clocked at 4.2 GHz boost, but with the addition of a 10-15% IPC increase.

That coupled with the ubiquity of 4000 MHz DRAM in 2018 will make them completely pull ahead of Intel. That is unless CoffeeLake turns out to be a decent upgrade (I don't think it will).
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#5
Darmok N Jalad
I figured a revision might do the opposite. With it being a considerably different design from last generation, there are probably minor design improvements that could be made but weren't implemented in order to hit a production deadline. This would be a tock, leaving a successful node transition as the key focus for Zen 2.
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#6
RejZoR
15% IPC is a bit of a stretch imo. Especially for the first iteration of Zen, like they said, just refined process, no architectural changes.
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#7
Captain_Tom
RejZoR said:
15% IPC is a bit of a stretch imo. Especially for the first iteration of Zen, like they said, just refined process, no architectural changes.
S P E C U L A T E


At this point we are all guessing, but no - Zen 2 will be a full upgrade. If you look at AMD's roadmap:

1. Late 2017 = 14nm+ Zen refresh. This indeed will just be a 5-10% clockspeed bump launched to keep AMD's advantage over Coffee Lake.

2) 2018 = 7nm Zen 2. Expect another 5% clockspeed bump, and some decent IPC increases (My guess is 10 - 20% higher IPC).


Remember that Piledriver launched just a year after Bulldozer and brought 15% higher IPC on the same process. There's no reasons Zen 2 couldn't do the same on 7nm; especially considering AMD Engineers have already said there are some obvious bottlenecks in the fabric, memory controller, and more that they will address.
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#8
R-T-B
Captain_Tom said:

2) 2018 = 7nm Zen 2. Expect another 5% clockspeed bump, and some decent IPC increases (My guess is 10 - 20% higher IPC).
AMD has already said they expect to use the Zen architecture and just shrink it for a while, to get mileage out of it.

What about that statement screams "MASSIVE IPC INCREASE!!!" to you?

I'd be surprised if we get anything beyond a fairly nice clock bump, frankly.
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#9
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
R-T-B said:
AMD has already said they expect to use the Zen architecture and just shrink it for a while, to get mileage out of it.

What about that statement screams "MASSIVE IPC INCREASE!!!" to you?

I'd be surprised if we get anything beyond a fairly nice clock bump, frankly.
I would be surprised if it was even a nice clock bump. We are talking about GloFo.
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#10
R-T-B
cdawall said:
I would be surprised if it was even a nice clock bump. We are talking about GloFo.
That "nice" bit was sort of assuming they struck a deal with another fab, lol.
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#11
Gasaraki
Captain_Tom said:
I am expecting the 2800 and 2600 to be clocked at 4.2 GHz boost, but with the addition of a 10-15% IPC increase.

That coupled with the ubiquity of 4000 MHz DRAM in 2018 will make them completely pull ahead of Intel. That is unless CoffeeLake turns out to be a decent upgrade (I don't think it will).
How?! "addition of a 10-15% IPC increase"? Not possible without some changes to the architecture. They are just talking about a die refinement here.
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#12
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
R-T-B said:
That "nice" bit was sort of assuming they struck a deal with another fab, lol.
That doesn't even seem like it is on the table. Maybe I am wrong, maybe GloFo will have something nice for 7nm, I mean it wasn't long ago TSMC sucked.
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#13
Bansaku
Go go AMD!!! THIS is exactly what the industry needs; Competition through innovation and advancement!

:toast:
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#14
theoneandonlymrk
R-T-B said:
That "nice" bit was sort of assuming they struck a deal with another fab, lol.
Well they have ,allegedly tsmc but Gf has ties with samsung too ,its just not known for what or for definite tbh but i think it may be gamer vega given some of the clock rumours ,which leaves zen as a binning and yield improvement upgrade, they (zen)are said to be binning very well with 80% full core operative , thats epic imho and should allow for some even higher bins.
Likely that is what it was always going to be, i think they already had a good plan layed out before zen launched, though their execution could have been better.
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#15
evernessince
Captain_Tom said:
I am expecting the 2800 and 2600 to be clocked at 4.2 GHz boost, but with the addition of a 10-15% IPC increase.

That coupled with the ubiquity of 4000 MHz DRAM in 2018 will make them completely pull ahead of Intel. That is unless CoffeeLake turns out to be a decent upgrade (I don't think it will).
10-15% might be a bit much, 4.2 GHz should definitely be possible though. If I were AMD I would be shooting for 4.5GHz boost, 4.0 base. They can likely achieve this on the same power usage as well. Most of the IPC gains are going to come from improvements in branch prediction and their predictive learning built into the hardware.
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#16
Kemar Stewart
RejZoR said:
Cool. If AMD can pull 4.0 GHz base clock and up to 4.2 GHz Boost from "upcoming" R7 2800X, that would be massive thing by itself. If they can get any higher, even more so. I really hope AMD's future ZEN CPU's are going to evolve nicely, because we can then look at very interesting and competitive market not entirely dominated anymore by Intel only.

Also, if AMD can manage to refine those 4c/8t CPU's far enough to pull 4.5 GHz from them, they could seriously threaten existence of 7700K...
Yes with 10% IPC improvements too
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#18
R-T-B
Kemar Stewart said:
Yes with 10% IPC improvements too
I see the hype train is not easily deterred.
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#19
MrGenius
R-T-B said:
I see the hype train is not easily deterred.
Or at least detoured.;)
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#20
Camm
i would be highly surprised if we see ANY IPC gains whatsoever.

What I WOULD expect to see is maybe another 100mhz-200mhz top frequency, and better power usage, especially whilst within envelope (i.e. things you expect to see with a refined process).

Anything more than that would take either a fab drop, architectural improvements, or both IMO.
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#21
owen10578
R-T-B said:
I see the hype train is not easily deterred.
Nor derailed
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#22
DeathtoGnomes
small steps lead to bigger adventures, and AMD is all about hurry up and wait.
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#23
ratirt
Oh my. That would be the way to go for me :) I'm thinking of Ryzen to be my next rig. If they manage to pull this refining off i would really go for it :D 4.5 Ghz that would be my goal :D
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#24
Caring1
Camm said:
i would be highly surprised if we see ANY IPC gains whatsoever.

What I WOULD expect to see is maybe another 100mhz-200mhz top frequency, and better power usage, especially whilst within envelope (i.e. things you expect to see with a refined process).

Anything more than that would take either a fab drop, architectural improvements, or both IMO.
I think Camm has hit it on the head.
Maybe higher boosts, better overclocking and better power consumption.
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#25
HD64G
They just need to have 300-400MHz higher clocks on same or less power comsumption imho. And stay on same price also. A good refresh that would be.
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