Friday, October 19th 2018
Intel Core i9-9900K De-lidded, Soldered TIM Outperformed by Liquid Metal
We kept seeing hints regarding Intel's 9000-series processors running hot, including from their own board partners. As it turned out, the actual results are a mixed bag with some running very hot and most others ending up being power-limited more so than temperature-limited. Our own review sample showed overall better load temperatures relative to the predecessor 8000-series processors thanks to the soldered TIM (sTIM) used here, to give you some context. But that did not stop overclocker extraordinaire Roman "Der8auer" Hartung from de-lidding the processor to see why they were not generally better as expected.
As it turns out, there are a few things involved here. For one, replacing sTIM with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (Der8auer has a financial interest in the company, but he does disclose it publicly) alone improves p95 average load temperatures across all eight cores by ~9 °C. This is to be expected given that the liquid metal has a vastly higher thermal conductivity than the various sTIM compositions used in the industry. Of more interest, however, is that both the PCB and the die are thicker with the Core i9-9900K compared to the Core i7-8700K, and lapping the die to reduce thickness by a few microns also does a lot to lower the CPU temperatures relatively. Overall, Intel have still done a good job using sTIM- especially compared to how it was before- but the current state of things means that we have a slightly better stock product with little scope for improvement within easy means to the consumer.
As it turns out, there are a few things involved here. For one, replacing sTIM with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (Der8auer has a financial interest in the company, but he does disclose it publicly) alone improves p95 average load temperatures across all eight cores by ~9 °C. This is to be expected given that the liquid metal has a vastly higher thermal conductivity than the various sTIM compositions used in the industry. Of more interest, however, is that both the PCB and the die are thicker with the Core i9-9900K compared to the Core i7-8700K, and lapping the die to reduce thickness by a few microns also does a lot to lower the CPU temperatures relatively. Overall, Intel have still done a good job using sTIM- especially compared to how it was before- but the current state of things means that we have a slightly better stock product with little scope for improvement within easy means to the consumer.
75 Comments on Intel Core i9-9900K De-lidded, Soldered TIM Outperformed by Liquid Metal
They do appear to be having more quality control issues than I would like though...
Looks like there might already be air gaps in the solder in the first place.
Roman is just
bodydie shaming. -6c just by liposuction (0.2mm). -14c in totalSo Intel definitely intends their chips to be able to run AVX instructions.
The extra thickness is what's probably causing excess heat buildup.
Deliding AMD improves temps by 2°C at best, because they're doing it right.
Meanwhile, on Intel, even with soldered TIM...
Because his silicon cash cow is rapidly drying up now with soldered solutions that really are pointless to improve upon.
Wake up people.
Little scope for improvement for the consumer. Let's see how overclocking is doing in 2018 besides Intel, shall we.
- Nvidia GPU: clocks right to cap out of the box. BIOS locked down tight, temperature limited.
- AMD CPU: overclocking can be detrimental to performance, and barely nets gains in any case.
- AMD GPU: they can still overclock, but don't have much more than 10% left in the can. High end GPUs need to be downvolted instead.
- Intel CPU 8th Gen and previous: being clocked closer to their cap and straight into 'our' OC headroom. Not just on K CPUs either. Delid on 8th gen and earlier would provide lower temps, but barely improved clock potential.
Gosh, its almost a trend, isn't it...
also adding two more cores plus an increase in clock speed isnt easy its bound to cause heat problems when all cores are working hard..
soldering the lid on has helped a bit but not by much.. the bottom line being that the days of good problem free overclocks are now over on the top end chips.. maybe that is how things should be..
the 9600K is a better option for those that want to save some dosh and have all (six) cores at 5 gig or a tad over.. two cores less will make all the difference..
the fact these things only boost fully on one or two cores tells the true story and has done for a while..
trog
An example below that show that clearly.
www.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/19/intel_core_i99900k_9th_generation_cpu_review/5
I kinda saw this coming anyways. Didn't wanna be that guy crying about how hard its going to be to delid--seeing as we all wanted solder in the first place. They definitely could have done a better job of it though.
The savings they make from not using the best are miniscule and the processors are quite expensive, so cost can't be a factor. I just don't get it.
I've been laughing non-stop for 16hours. :roll: