Tuesday, January 7th 2020

Expect High-end Navi: AMD CEO

At a Q&A session with the tech press in Las Vegas, AMD CEO Dr Lisa Su raised hopes of a high-end graphics card based on its "Navi" family of GPUs. Responding to a specific question by Gordon Ung from PC World on whether there will be a high-end competitor in the discrete graphics space, Dr Su stated that one should expect a "high-end Navi." Dr Su states: "I know those on Reddit want a high end Navi! You should expect that we will have a high-end Navi, and that it is important to have it. The discrete graphics market, especially at the high end, is very important to us. So you should expect that we will have a high-end Navi, although I don't usually comment on unannounced products."

For months now, it's been speculated that AMD has been working on a larger GPU die than "Navi 10." In 2020, AMD is expected to release the "Navi 20" familly of GPUs built on 7 nm+ (EUV) node, based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture. The key design goals of RDNA2 are expected to be support for at least tier-1 variable-rate shading (VRS), and possibly hardware-accelerated ray-tracing. It's possible that "high-end Navi" belongs to this family of GPUs.
Sources: AnandTech, PC World
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45 Comments on Expect High-end Navi: AMD CEO

#1
ixi
What we all care...

1. Release
2. Benchmarks

:peace:


P.S. I have doubts that they will challenge GTX 3xxx ( ye, ye I know it's RTX ).
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#2
Fluffmeister
Yeah W1zz was reviewing the RTX 2080 Ti back in September 2018, it will be nice to have some high end competition, but the goal posts continue to move.
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#3
Midland Dog
since when wasnt amd highend designed to catch up to nv featuresets/perf
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#4
dicktracy
A competitor to the RTX 3070. If the rumors are true about the 50% perf boost, then the RTX 3060. :roll:
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#5
Sandbo
This doesn't really say anything without the slightest hint on the launch date.
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#6
wolf
Performance Enthusiast
IMO if they can even match a 2080Ti at a much more compelling price they'll be doing OK. I would hope for even better but I think I'd be disappointed. Basically if later this year I can replace my GTX1080 with RTX2080Ti-level performance at a sane price, I'll pull the trigger for sure.
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#7
yakk
I'm surprised, AMD had stated they weren't designing GPUs for the high end.

I would guess if TSMC production is fully booked and hard to come by then making low volumes of very high profit big GPUs makes more sense than large amounts of low profit smaller ones now. As opposed to making high quantities of low profit GPU chips from GF to meet their quotas.
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#8
efikkan
I'm wondering what AMD's interpretation of high-end is here, and find it odd that the high-end is apparently so important to them, despite not participating in it for years.
It seems like this quote can be interpreted in one of many ways; (like always with Lisa Su)
- A bigger Navi to compete with next-gen high-end products from Nvidia.
- A bigger Navi to compete with current high-end products from Nvidia.
- Any Navi faster than RX 5700 XT.
- A Navi with "high-end" features like HBM for the professional market.
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#9
Steevo
Those on Reddit? You mean the shills or bots?
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#10
NeuralNexus
yakk
I'm surprised, AMD had stated they weren't designing GPUs for the high end.

I would guess if TSMC production is fully booked and hard to come by then making low volumes of very high profit big GPUs makes more sense than large amounts of low profit smaller ones now. As opposed to making high quantities of low profit GPU chips from GF to meet their quotas.
They stated that years ago but RDNA is a new architecture targeting the high and low end market segments.
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#11
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
What happened to Navi 12? Abandoned in favor of 7nm+ probably because yields were too low? If yes, then Navi 21, on 7nm+ won't have any new architectural features, it's just a pilot card for the new manufacturing node not unlike RX 590 was compared to RX 580. VRS/RT will be in RDNA2 which AFAIK is debuting with Arcturus. 7nm+ w/ VRS/RT is too much just to call "Navi 21." That implies the lower Navi cards could also do VRS/RT but...it can't?
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#12
ShurikN
FordGT90Concept
What happened to Navi 12?
What's Navi 12, a high end RDNA1?
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#13
Ubersonic
Midland Dog
since when wasnt amd highend designed to catch up to nv featuresets/perf
2012, that's the last time they were in the lead in the high end.
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#14
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
ShurikN
What's Navi 12, a high end RDNA1?
"Big Navi" before information about Navi 21 leaked.
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#15
cmmw
they need something ready for the new xbox and ps5 by the end of the year with hardware raytracing for mass production. they for sure need a more efficient rx5700XT design for the consoles which will raise the headroom for higher clock speed cards this year
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#16
Camm
AMD has scope to make a high end card, per nm, the 5700 XT is pretty good. Furthermore, if Nvidia is wedded to the idea of dedicated units for RT rather than divisible FP\INT, Nvidia's going to have to continue to maintain very large die sizes.
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#17
laszlo
a high-end gpu based on rdna1 wouldn't take any crown so seems they made the right decision to not mass produce one; if Lisa confirmed it will be one based on rdna2 is because they already had es samples and is a work in progress ; just my 2 cents..
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#18
fancucker
Its going to be massive, 280W minimum, around 64-72 CUs and will have adjusted TMU units to provide underwhelming ray-tracing features, or software-based ray tracing. And it'll achieve 2080S tier raster power. The fact that Nvidia is holding off the 2080Ti Super is an indication they have similar expectations to this as well.
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#19
Chomiq
Steevo
Those on Reddit? You mean the shills or bots?
The band that woo's and yeah's during their launch events.
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#20
Zach_01
laszlo
a high-end gpu based on rdna1 wouldn't take any crown so seems they made the right decision to not mass produce one; if Lisa confirmed it will be one based on rdna2 is because they already had es samples and is a work in progress ; just my 2 cents..
This and the video below...

The 7nm node is crowded right now with TSMC is full up to the head from orders and others wanting to enter this node... AMD is rumored to double their available 7nm/7nm+ wafers by TSMC starting Q3/H2 2020. Big navi will take up significant wafer space and right now there is isnt any left by TSMC who continuously increasing the production and continuously is filled...

Watch closely the video... the calculations add-up in the end...

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#21
CoolRonZ
Hmmm..... Still waiting for that 1080ti killer..... After my poor very very old gtx1080 died on me, went with a 5700XT, mainly because I can not and will not be part of feeding Ngreedia. But in the end I almost got 1080ti performance at a pretty decent price, so ya......
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#22
NutZInTheHead
"Expect High-End Navi"
The only high-end I expect from AMD is something that matches the performance level of Nvidias next gen Ampere GPUs like the 3080 Ti or whatever it will be called.

If what AMD calls high-end but the performance is like the 2080 Ti, then to me thats not high-end. At least not when they are only matching Nvidias pervious gen.

The reason Nvidia can have such high prices is because of having no competition.

Just look how much Intel dropped the price of the i9 10980XE compared to its previous gen.

I really hope AMD can deliver something that can compete with high-end Ampere.
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#23
steen
Camm
Furthermore, if Nvidia is wedded to the idea of dedicated units for RT rather than divisible FP\INT, Nvidia's going to have to continue to maintain very large die sizes.
Even with 2x RTX pipes per SM, it will be interesting to see how much silicon budget is invested in raster vs RT vs AI vs HPC. With AI exploding & Intel & other ODMs chasing a slice of the pie, Nv have apparently hedged their bets with an AI ASIC just in case Ampere isn't enough. One thing with Nv, expect the unexpected.
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#24
medi01
wolf
IMO if they can even match a 2080Ti at a much more compelling price they'll be doing OK.
It's a question of "is there a market for it right now".
And it looks to me that the answer is firm NO.

NutZInTheHead
If what AMD calls high-end but the performance is like the 2080 Ti, then to me thats not high-end.
NV is highly unlikely to roll out oversized chips in 2020,
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#25
Razbojnik
I expect intel will make amd regret not stepping up their game earlier, and the Big Na...N word...cause it hurts me to hear about it already, so it's just a big N word...is gonna flop cause Ampere is looking too hot imo
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