Wednesday, October 28th 2020

AMD Radeon RX 6000 "Big Navi" RDNA2 Graphics Card Launch Liveblog

After thoroughly appetizing us with its "Where Gaming Begins: Episode 1" event announcing the Ryzen 5000 series "Zen 3" processors that offer up to 19% IPC gains, in the second Episode, we see the company announcing its next-generation Radeon RX 6000 "Big Navi" graphics cards based on the RDNA2 graphics architecture that introduce full DirectX 12 Ultimate readiness, including real-time raytracing hardware. In the run up to the RX 6000, NVIDIA is already reportedly preparing product-stack updates. In this liveblog, we uncover what has NVIDIA riled up, and whether AMD can pull off better pricing and availbility than the RTX 30-series.

Update 15:59 UTC: It is time! Welcome to the Radeon RX 6000 Series live blog.
Update 16:01 UTC: AMD CEO Dr Lisa Su takes centerstage, fresh off a good quarterly results announcement, and that big Xilinx acquisition announcement.
Update 16:03 UTC: FarCry 6 seems like an AMD optimized title.

Update 16:03 UTC: Possibly the flagship product.
Update 16:04 UTC: AMD is where gaming begins because next-gen consoles trust it. - Dr Su

Update 16:05 UTC: 50% generational improvement in perf/W.
Update 16:06 UTC: 26.7 billion transistors, almost as big as GA102
Update 16:07 UTC: RDNA2 has a breakthrough high-speed design.
Update 16:08 UTC: AMD RDNA2 compute unit 30% more energy efficient.
Update 16:09 UTC: InfinityCache works to significantly improve memory bandwidth, based on the Zen L3 cache. More than 2.17x bandwidth gain despite 256-bit.
Update 16:10 UTC: 30% higher frequencies on the same 7 nm node.
Update 16:10 UTC: DirectX 12 Ultimate and DirectStorage support.
Update 16:11 UTC: Over 2X performance gain over RX 5700 XT.
Update 16:11 UTC: The RX 6800 XT!
Update 16:12 UTC: 4K Gaming from AMD is here! Matches RTX 3080!!!
Update 16:13 UTC: Hello competition!
Update 16:14 UTC: Welcome back ATI Rage, as the AMD Rage Mode.
Update 16:15 UTC: When paired with Ryzen, you get a gaming performance boost, 13% perf increase.

Update 16:15 UTC: AMD introduces its take on the NVIDIA Reflex, announcing latest Radeon Lag and Radeon Boost. No special API needed.
Update 16:16 UTC: Full DX12 Ultimate support, including ray-tracing. Woirking on a DLSS-rival.
Update 16:18 UTC: AMD is leveraging studios working on Xbox Series X / PS5 devs to integrate its Radeon features on the PC.

Update 16:18 UTC: FarCry 6, DiRT 5, WoW Shadowlands (which gets raytracing), RiftBreaker, are AMD-optimized.

Update 16:21 UTC: Available Nov 18, starts, $649

Update 16:21 UTC: Also announcing RX 6800 : faster than RTX 2080 Ti, 4K + raytracing ready
Update 16:22 UTC: $579, November 18 availability for the RX 6800.

Update 16:22 UTC: Lisa gets ready for a "one more thing"

Update 16:23 UTC: Radeon RX 6900 XT: 80 CUs, 65% perf/Watt over 5700 XT.
Update 16:25 UTC: RTX 3090 BEATEN!!!!
Update 16:26 UTC: December 8 for the RX 6900 XT, priced $999.
Update 16:26 UTC: OOF, we cannot wait to test these cards out!

Update 17:08 UTC: The press-release can be found here.

Update 17:19 UTC: The complete AMD slide deck follows.
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351 Comments on AMD Radeon RX 6000 "Big Navi" RDNA2 Graphics Card Launch Liveblog

#201
Vayra86
BoboOOZ
Where is @Vayra86 , I think he has to buy a 6900XT now...
6900 even? I will settle for anything between 3070- 3080 range perf, it seems like 6800XT is as high as I'll need to go. And less really is more in my case, as I'll max at 1440p no problem.

But yeah. Damn, son! I'll concede right here right now I've underestimated Navi/RDNA2. This really is great news, and long overdue.
Posted on Reply
#202
lynx29
the thing that sucks the most is that AMD is still using 7nm factories ot make ryzen 3000 series and navi 5 series... like seriously, screw it, go all in on this new stuff so it doesn't sell out on day 1...
Posted on Reply
#203
Vayra86
lynx29
the thing that sucks the most is that AMD is still using 7nm factories ot make ryzen 3000 series and navi 5 series... like seriously, screw it, go all in on this new stuff so it doesn't sell out on day 1... thats the kind of shit that pisses me off.
That makes about as much sense as your signature right now.
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#204
BoboOOZ
Vayra86
6900 even? I will settle for anything between 3070- 3080 range perf, it seems like 6800XT is as high as I'll need to go. And less really is more in my case, as I'll max at 1440p no problem.

But yeah. Damn, son! I'll concede right here right now I've underestimated Navi/RDNA2.
With the pricing, they're really pushing you to buy the 6800XT anyway, I'm curious where the perf/dollar compared to the 3070 will be.
Posted on Reply
#205
GhostRyder
Huh, I was surprised that there even is a 6900XT as I thought that was just a rumor and the reality was the 6800XT was the top with it just being competitive with the 3080. Very impressive based on slides, but I will still be waiting on reviews like from @W1zzard .

However, I definitely will be waiting now for the 6900 XT reviews and for that price if its competitive I will be getting a 6900XT to replace my Titan X (Pascal) since I was unable to secure a 3080 or a 3090.

I am just happy we finally have top end competition again.
Posted on Reply
#206
tigger
I'm the only one
Looks like AMD has kicked Ngreedia in the nuts
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#207
Vayra86
BoboOOZ
With the pricing, they're really pushing you to buy the 6800XT anyway, I'm curious where the perf/dollar compared to the 3070 will be.
Certainly but even with these optimistic numbers, I'm waiting for reviews, and I'm going to wait out the early adopter woes too. This 1080 is running as it did on day one... no rush. Let it all settle... this perf level isn't going places anytime soon, the jump is substantial and I expect minor updates/refreshes from here on out for the coming 2 years. Much like Turing was to Pascal.
Posted on Reply
#208
randompeep
Idk mane...they already got their shit on console hardware, 'few' supercomputers built around Ryzen all over the world. And now eventually they'll win the consumer PC market.
Whoever bought SOME stock in early 2010's must be rich by now.
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#209
Vayra86
GhostRyder
Huh, I was surprised that there even is a 6900XT as I thought that was just a rumor and the reality was the 6800XT was the top with it just being competitive with the 3080. Very impressive based on slides, but I will still be waiting on reviews like from @W1zzard .

However, I definitely will be waiting now for the 6900 XT reviews and for that price if its competitive I will be getting a 6900XT to replace my Titan X (Pascal) since I was unable to secure a 3080 or a 3090.

I am just happy we finally have top end competition again.
I reckon 6900XT is what the 3090 is to the 3080, maybe give or take a few %.
Posted on Reply
#210
RedelZaVedno
Cheeseball
Did you expect AMD to have some sort of AI/Tensor-focused implementation that could take on NVIDIA's DLSS? RDNA and RDNA2 are mostly rasterzation improvements which is mostly good for gaming and 3D workstation use. They've been brute-forcing power and it seems to be going well without overdoing the power consumption. This is a win-win for them regardless.
How so? Nvidia has 3070TI in their sleeves and AMD just enabled them $600 pricing. AKA 6800 at $579 is dead. $50 less for GPU that is trading blows with 3080 and has no AI upscaling and probably way worse ray tracing performance is a non seller too. AMD is the company with 20% discrete GPU market share, not Nvidia and they're acting like their brand is equal in GPU world. I expect xx70/xx80 Ampere to outsell RDNA2 10 to 1. That's the harsh reality check AMD will have to face it they don't lower their prices. That's coming from ATI 4870/AMD 6780/R290x/RX480/Vega56 owner, not some Nvidia fanboy :(
Posted on Reply
#211
Chrispy_
saikamaldoss
Easy-Peasy Chinesy... RX6700 with 54CU or 50CU if not will do a price cut on 6800 lol ha ha ha
I don't think they'll chop it down that much. The most they chopped down the 40CU Navi10 die was 32CU for the OEM-only RX 5600. Dropping Navi21 from 80CU to 60CU is already a very deep cut with a lot of wasted/dead silicon. We may yet see something with 12GB if AMD decide to harvest chips with defective memory controllers, but the sheer silicon costs and yields would need to be atrocious for them to make financial sense to offer a 50CU part out of 80CU silicon.

More likely there will be a big hole in AMD's lineup for a while, as Navi22 starts at 40CU and will likely replace the 5700XT for the $250-450 price points - It won't be a worthwhile upgrade for 5700-series owners but it'll add DXR raytracing support and bring a minor performance boost from the architectural upgrades.

AMD talked about huge performance/Watt gains in their presentation but I think a 40CU Navi10 vs a 40CU Navi22 will show only minor architectural, clock-for-clock performance gains. I'm just guessing at this point but I suspect the 6700XT will be 25% faster than the 5700XT, and at least half of that performance will come from higher clocks, not architectural advances.
Posted on Reply
#212
GhostRyder
Vayra86
I reckon 6900XT is what the 3090 is to the 3080, maybe give or take a few %.
Yea, the jump between the top two skews on both sides is marginal. I just was shocked it existed (At least coming this soon). Its good that we will see some top end competition again like the old days so we can actually have more choices.
Posted on Reply
#213
Vayra86
RedelZaVedno
How so? Nvidia has 3070TI in their sleeves and AMD just enabled them $600 pricing. AKA 6800 at $579 is dead. $50 less for GPU that is trading blows with 3080 and has no AI upscaling and probably way worse ray tracing performance is a non seller too. AMD is the company with 20% discrete GPU market share, not Nvidia and they're acting like their brand is equal in GPU world. I expect xx70/xx80 Ampere to outsell RDNA2 10 to 1. That's the harsh reality check AMD will have to face it they don't lower their prices. That's coming from ATI 4870/AMD 6780/R290x/RX480/Vega56 owner, not some Nvidia fanboy :(
LOL. You would pay for proprietary DLSS? That's an odd one. That's like paying for PhysX and its per-title implementation. Realistically though... all DLSS is, is a performance tweak with visual impact. If the performance is already there... why would you?

Will Nvidia outsell this time? I'm not so sure, but probably... still doesn't say much about what's the better GPU choice right now. I think the verdict on that is still not entirely in and DLSS certainly isn't the deal maker or breaker IMO.

A few facts are clear right now:
- AMD has an architectural advantage right now with Infinity Cache, as they now have a technology that gives them a higher efficiency VRAM subsystem. To top it off, they can make do with slower memory - and not just a smaller bus. That is huge.
- AMD has a substantial VRAM advantage at the same price point and where it matters for the resolution it wants to serve
- AMD has capacity parity with the new consoles
- AMD clearly has a better node leading to a cost efficient die.

If you ask me, the stars have aligned and favoring DLSS over the above list of clear advantages, both short and long term, seems like a very odd, and perhaps even biased decision. I'd reconsider.

*signed, prior Nvidia advocate. The tables have turned.
tigger
Looks like AMD has kicked Ngreedia in the nuts
More like sledgehammer to the face...
Posted on Reply
#214
GhostRyder
Vayra86
Will Nvidia outsell this time? I'm not so sure, but probably... still doesn't say much about what's the better GPU choice right now. I think the verdict on that is still not entirely in and DLSS certainly isn't the deal maker or breaker IMO.
Yea I agree, I think the only way they will outsell nVidia is if they have such a high volume of GPU's where as nVidia cant get enough out especially before the holidays. Amd still has to build consumer confidence back with these GPU's actually living up to the hype then we could see them coming back in full.
Posted on Reply
#215
Chrispy_
Khonjel
The rumor mill/leaks so far lead to 6700 XT being Navi 22 aka 40 CU but with blistering clock speeds. But anyways who knows.
I hope the rumour mill is wrong in this case, otherwise there's going to be a big old gap in the lineup again, and this time that gap will be right at the upper mainstream sweet spot (which seems to be $300-400 now, apparently).

If Navi22 happens to have 44 or 48CU that would probably be better for meeting the 60CU of the vanilla RX6800. I already replied a few posts up that chopping Navi21 from 80CU down to 60CU is already a huge cut. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't believe AMD will want to hit a high-volume, popular price point with big silicon trimmed down even further.
Posted on Reply
#216
BoboOOZ
Chrispy_
AMD talked about huge performance/Watt gains in their presentation but I think a 40CU Navi10 vs a 40CU Navi22 will show only minor architectural, clock-for-clock performance gains. I'm just guessing at this point but I suspect the 6700XT will be 25% faster than the 5700XT, and at least half of that performance will come from higher clocks, not architectural advances.
I would be a little more optimistic, because the 5700XT had an overclocked core but the VRAM was lagging behind, it was borderline memory starved, so I'm betting more on 30-35% improvement, but we'll have to see.
Posted on Reply
#217
TheLostSwede
lynx29
I know you have connections lostswede, get me a reserve spot for 5600x and 6800xt, you know you want to! :love:
I think everyone I used to know at AMD have left...
dragontamer5788
Yup.

Decoy pricing is a fundamental marketing technique. It applies to both the low-end (why buy "small fries" when "medium fries" are just 10-cents more expensive for double the food?), as well as the high-end ($1500 is clearly not reasonable. So obviously $700 is a reasonable price).

------

Everyone does it. "i3" doesn't have enough features, "i7" is too expensive, clearly "i5" is the perfect CPU. Eventually, when Intel wants to sell more i7s, they invent the i9 so that the i9 can serve as the decoy and "nudge" people towards buying the i7.
Just wanted to make sure you didn't imply this was an AMD only thing.

I prefer onion rings over fries...
Posted on Reply
#218
RedelZaVedno
Vayra86
LOL. You would pay for proprietary DLSS? That's an odd one. That's like paying for PhysX and its per-title implementation. Realistically though... all DLSS is, is a performance tweak with visual impact. If the performance is already there... why would you?

Will Nvidia outsell this time? I'm not so sure, but probably... still doesn't say much about what's the better GPU choice right now. I think the verdict on that is still not entirely in and DLSS certainly isn't the deal maker or breaker IMO.

A few facts are clear right now:
- AMD has an architectural advantage right now with Infinity Cache, as they now have a technology that gives them a higher efficiency VRAM subsystem. To top it off, they can make do with slower memory - and not just a smaller bus. That is huge.
- AMD has a substantial VRAM advantage at the same price point and where it matters for the resolution it wants to serve
- AMD has capacity parity with the new consoles
- AMD clearly has a better node leading to a cost efficient die.

If you ask me, the stars have aligned.
Maybe not in yours, but It is in most consumers' eyes. AMD offered better performance against 3070 for MORE $$$ giving Nvidia opportunity to launch 3070TI and the same performance as 3080 for 50 bucks less without possibility of AI upscaling and poorer ray tracing capabilities. All that is working for AMD is more vram. AMD is acting like it owns 80% not 20% of the DIY GPU market. It's just silly if they can't see that. I'm starting to believe they're content with dominating consoles and staying marginal player in gaming PC GPU market.
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#219
moproblems99
I just hope one is going to be available. This is the prime reason I could care less of CP2077 launch. I need a damn GPU to run it.
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#220
randompeep
RedelZaVedno
I expect xx70/xx80 Ampere to outsell RDNA2 10 to 1.
Keep it 4:1, keep it real. Do you think they're caring about people bragging on AMD 'fantastic' prices ? If Ryzen 3000 sells like pancakes currently at +10-20% over MSRP, how the GPU higher-tier marketing strategy would fail ?
We're talking about the next-gen, perf/$ can't be judged just yet. After AIB's get in stores, we could roll it up and down some more time. Till then both nvidia and AMD plan their position for these cheeky high-end and the supposed second hand market killer lineup @250-450$
Posted on Reply
#221
kruk
Khonjel
RX 6800 is 60CU > RTX 3070

RX 6800 XT is 72CU ≈ RTX 3080

RX 6900 XT is 80CU ≈ RTX 3090

Aside from so many Rs and Xs I had to type (geez!) I hope AMD has a backup for the rumored 3070 Ti and 3080 Ti. Though that's just my inner-AMDiot hoping. As a consumer, where my under $500 cards at? :banghead: :cry:
The clocks on the 6900 XT are suspiciously low, which suggests that we might be able to get a 6950 XT in the future as the production matures. This means that they can sell the new SKU at $999 and reduce the 6900 XT price to match the 3080 Ti ...
Posted on Reply
#222
Cheeseball
Not a Potato
RedelZaVedno
How so? Nvidia has 3070TI in their sleeves and AMD just enabled them $600 pricing. AKA 6800 at $579 is dead. $50 less for GPU that is trading blows with 3080 and has no AI upscaling and probably way worse ray tracing performance is a non seller too. AMD is the company with 20% discrete GPU market share, not Nvidia and they're acting like their brand is equal in GPU world. I expect xx70/xx80 Ampere to outsell RDNA2 10 to 1. That's the harsh reality check AMD will have to face it they don't lower their prices. That's coming from ATI 4870/AMD 6780/R290x/RX480/Vega56 owner, not some Nvidia fanboy :(
The RX 6800 has 16 GB of GDDR6 at 256-bit, much like the RTX 3070 which is just 8 GB at the same speed. I would seriously go for the RX 6800 for the extra $79 just for more RAM.

AI upscaling and RT (since its not mainstream) are just extra features at the moment. The fact that 6800 XT and RTX 3080 are nearly match-for-match with each other is the big picture here and makes AMD competitive at the high-end once again.
Posted on Reply
#223
TheLostSwede
lynx29
the thing that sucks the most is that AMD is still using 7nm factories ot make ryzen 3000 series and navi 5 series... like seriously, screw it, go all in on this new stuff so it doesn't sell out on day 1...
AMD's focus today is not on CPU or GPUs, it's on console SoCs. Want to buy a Ryzen 4000 mobile CPU from AMD today? If you're not Lenovo, HP, Dell or Asus, good luck, no stock as their allocation at TSMC is now being used up to make enough chips for Sony and Microsoft.
Posted on Reply
#224
Chomiq
EarthDog
Ty!

Sorry, there are like 3 threads going on here about this subject... The one birdie posted, the live blog, and then the summary...

So, basically, it is the latest and greatest to get that performance. Cool beans. Awesome for those going balls deep into the ecosystem, bad news for the majority of existing PC owners that won't get the boost at all because they are running Intel.
From the description it looks like if you want a match, you can have it as base. You want some additional advantage go balls deep on AMD build (in titles that support the feature).
Posted on Reply
#225
Vayra86
RedelZaVedno
Maybe not in yours, but It is in most consumers' eyes. AMD offered the better performance against 3070 for more giving Nvidia opportunity to launch 3070TI and the same performance as 3080 for 50 bucks less without possibility of AI upscaling and poorer ray tracing capabilities. All that is working for AMD is more vram. AMD is acting like it owns 80% not 20% of the DIY GPU market. It's just silly if they can't see that. I'm starting to believe they're content with dominating consoles and staying marginal player in gaming PC GPU market.
Doubtful. We've already seen how tables can turn when it comes to these things. Intel's mindshare is quickly waning for example. It took Ryzen a few generations, you can expect similar with RDNA2. That's why I'm saying, you're probably going to be right, but don't mistake that for a lack of change in perspective. People need to ease into these things, and AMD has a lot of wiggle room here in terms of price that Nvidia really doesn't have. They will definitely be eating further into their margin than AMD this time around.

But the bigger issue is the mid-term to long-term market for Nvidia. Ampere was supposed to be their big overhaul right, I mean, this is FINALLY the Volta we always drooled over, really, all RT capable and everything with top 4K perf. So what's next for NV? How do you scale up a 320W board that is already out of balance in multiple ways? I mean its great they have GDDR6X. But they can't get a wider bus for it really without cutting on core power budget. What's their step up now?

AMD however is now in a position where Nvidia was during Pascal. Memory efficiency that is out of reach for its competitor. Boost that leaves a major gap with competitor. Feature parity with current day hardware and software. AMD can leverage technology that Nvidia simply doesn't have, nor can access easily. They've got a design win here and its ten times more impressive than Nvidia repurposing their cores for RT.

We find ourselves now, immediately after this presentation... considering what magic rabbit Huang has left in the hat. Because he needs one badly.

A hidden motivator though might the realization for customers that AMD Is also in the consoles for a while now. That is why the feature parity bit matters so much. If the GPUs can do the same things, show the same picture, why would you not switch? There is familiarity with both brands after all.

Fingers crossed now for no driver oopsies.
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