Friday, June 25th 2021

Thanks to Windows 11, Scalpers Buy Out Add-on TPM 2.0 Modules

Most modern PC platforms include an fTPM (firmware trusted platform module) of some form. Those that don't, have a TPM 2.0 compatible header on the motherboards. Microsoft's requirement of a hardware TPM for Windows 11 has scalpers go after add-on TPMs, which are typically priced around $20, but now marked up to $100, according to price-tracking by Shen Ye, a senior HTC VIVE exec, who has been tracking prices of add-on TPMs on Twitter.

Scalpers possibly anticipate a rush of ill-informed buyers out for add-on TPMs, who haven't spent 5 minutes digging through their UEFI setup programs for the fTPM toggle. Below is a screenshot of a Ryzen 7 2700X-based machine, paired with an AMD B450 chipset motherboard (a platform from 2018), with its fTPM toggle turned on. The PC now meets Windows 11 system requirements. Windows 11 uses hardware TPMs for secure storage of credentials. "Microsoft, can you not impose a TPM requirement during a silicon shortage? Especially considering most desktop motherboards support TPM only as a purchasable accessory," Shen Ye tweeted.
Source: Shen Ye (Twitter)
Add your own comment

263 Comments on Thanks to Windows 11, Scalpers Buy Out Add-on TPM 2.0 Modules

#101
xtreemchaos
i think all my riggs support apart from a old lappy i keep for reading cds and dvds. ive just got used to win10 and now ive got to learn 11 suppose its not that diff to 10 but being a aspie im not keen on change unless its hardwear :) .
Posted on Reply
#102
BSim500
- If W11 needs TPM, then MS won't be able to force an upgrade on those who don't have it

- If W11 doesn't need TPM, then scalpers have just wasted their money.

^ Either way sounds like a win to me.
Posted on Reply
#103
trparky
lexluthermiesterPerhaps. Either way, it's unacceptable on every level.
Tell that to the likes of both Google Chrome and Firefox in which they deprecated older processors because of support for SSSE3. People bitched then and they'll bitch now. You can't keep supporting old hardware all the time when you want to start taking advantage of newer processor instruction sets.
Posted on Reply
#105
Mussels
Moderprator
OctopussWhat does the TPM thing do anyway? I have never ever heard it mentioned as being useful for anything.
Now, this is coming from someone who never used this, read up on it, or gives a single shit about it, but since i've seen it tied into file encryption, bitlocker and so on i assumed it was a bunch of locally stored security keys, so if someone cloned your data/hard drives they'd be unable to decrypt it. Could be extended to prevent stuff like ransomware, maybe?
Posted on Reply
#106
Aura24
RJARRRPCGPI think you mean "B450" for the chipset. Look in the security section and look for the "fTPM" option and enable it.
It's a typo (wrote this post at 2 am) , but yes it is a B450 and its now enabled.
Posted on Reply
#107
r9
People get all worked over a win 10 theme. :D
Posted on Reply
#108
Zubasa
tabascosauzIt's not a hard requirement that you have the CPUs listed:



It'll still let you install, but it'll warn you of the risks (e.g. not actively supported) beforehand. Doesn't seem like much of a problem, the older CPUs (even Ryzen 1000 to an extent) never needed the level of intricate firmware/scheduler/hardware CPPC handshaking that goes on in Ryzen 3000 and 5000 these days.

However, the Secure Boot flag (not Secure Boot being enabled itself) is a hard requirement, so IIRC early pre-Secure Boot UEFI platforms like Sandy Bridge probably won't work without modding the installer. And obviously non-UEFI capable systems, but that's not new.
FrickJust gonna go ahead and quote myself:


docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/
BTW M$ edited the page again, and no mention of soft-floors now.
I guess we must give Microsoft some slack as an indie studio instead of a multi-billion dollar company. /s :roll:
Posted on Reply
#109
Totally
ZubasaBTW M$ edited the page again, and no mention of soft-floors now.
I guess we must give Microsoft some slack as an indie studio instead of a multi-billion dollar company. /s :roll:
Jeeze...

Company ignoring the consumer input and delivering exactly what they didn't ask for is pure evil
Company listening to the consumer and trying to compromise is an embarrassment
Posted on Reply
#110
Skylinestar
r9People get all worked over a win 10 theme. :D
Stardock : Time to work harder
Posted on Reply
#111
Zubasa
TotallyJeeze...

Company ignoring the consumer input and delivering exactly what they didn't ask for is pure evil
Company listening to the consumer and trying to compromise is an embarrassment
This is even worse, flip-flopping between lifting the arbitrary limit and then edit it back out.
[MEDIA=twitter]1408580116393848839[/MEDIA]
Posted on Reply
#112
Bones
Aura24Microsoft is going to back track on this (just watch), because the average PC user is not going to know what the hell is "TPM" Tonight, I use the "PC Health Check" only to get the result that I don't meet the requirement because I don't have TPM. I know that my motherboard has a TPM Header, but I said to myself, "Why the hell would I need a TPM Module when I have a Ryzen 3900XT" Sure enough, after researching, the Ryzen 3900XT has a built-in TPM, but it is disabled by default in the BIOS on my ASRock B540 Steel Legend. I enabled it and now I meet the requirements. Again, the average PC users is not going to take the time to research or have the "know how" and enabling TPM. So what is going to happen is someone is going to panic and buy a overprice TPM module (when they don't need it) plug into their motherboard, turn on the PC, and nothing happens (thinking that this a plug and play device), not realizing that the module needs to be enabled in the BIOS.

Ohh... this is not going to go well...
And for now it's looking even worse.
ATM it seems TPM 1.2 itself isn't good enough.
Microsoft does away with 'soft floor', updates minimum Windows 11 specs with TPM 2.0 requirement - MSPoweruser

Of course this may not be the case now since things can change on a dime and MS right now is dancing to try and make the new OS more appealing with all the controversy over it.
However with the latest requirements we've seen published there is no longer any mention of TPM 1.2, only TPM 2.0 so for now, just take it with a grain of salt.
Posted on Reply
#113
totalfreq
Isaac`It's littreraly got a button for local accounts unlike windows 10
"Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to complete device setup on first use.

Switching a device out of Windows 11 Home in S mode also requires internet connectivity.

For all Windows 11 editions, internet access is required to perform updates and to download and take advantage of some features. A Microsoft account is required for some features."

Enterprise likely wont, but if its on home...pro will likely require it.

I just bought a pro 10 workstation license from the MS store. It didnt have a product key in the download section normally where download software is.

I contracted MS and they said they no longer offer product keys with the digital downloads. They forced me to activate it against the MS account I purchased the license from. Im in the process of getting it refunded as im upgrading a computer that isnt mine, but the Microsoft rep was totally unprofessional and said that isnt how windows works and that anyone who knows how to use a computer knows you need an MS account.

While my MCSE, Azure Certs, Action Pack, SPLA and decades as a professional tech since NT3.5/3.11 would say otherwise.

I escalated to internal team. I was trying to buy a retail version as this was a friends not buisness computer...no good deed goes unpunished i guess.
Posted on Reply
#114
TheUn4seen
I have to give it to Microsoft: No other company can turn what is essentially a graphical theme into such a crap shoot. All the stupidity and misinformation probably works in their favor - after all, best advertising is free advertising - but at this point it just reeks of incompetence.
Posted on Reply
#115
totalfreq
Windows 11 is the precurser to SaaS. Once they have everone on an MS account, office 365, and onedrive they will over a free remote VM workstations to access all your stuff from anywhere. Once you sign that...your machinenwill be a remote terminal, and they will then run DRM and software conpatibility checks agajnst everything you run and do. Youll lose control over your data and be enslaved to a small but ever growing fee. Think icloud...free storage to back up your pictures, gontacts and files...of you hit your limit...$1/mo...oh you need more space....$10/mo...its where all this is headed.
Posted on Reply
#116
ThrashZone
Hi,
Yeah the thing most companies love is stuff going viral is the term still allowed after covid lol
Posted on Reply
#117
rhaoul
I don't understand this kind of choice.
Posted on Reply
#118
Makaveli
InVasManiHave you seen the number of people on smartphones...
So were comparing smartphones running andriod to Desktop PC's running Linux?
Posted on Reply
#119
Bones
totalfreqWindows 11 is the precurser to SaaS. Once they have everone on an MS account, office 365, and onedrive they will over a free remote VM workstations to access all your stuff from anywhere. Once you sign that...your machinenwill be a remote terminal, and they will then run DRM and software conpatibility checks agajnst everything you run and do. Youll lose control over your data and be enslaved to a small but ever growing fee. Think icloud...free storage to back up your pictures, gontacts and files...of you hit your limit...$1/mo...oh you need more space....$10/mo...its where all this is headed.
Exactly what I was thinking.

The current thing with scalpers ATM is just a nusicance to MS and us, that's why in time, everything will have it built-in to ensure you've got it whether you want it or not and this is what I'm thinking here.

TPM modules are used in a business, for a home application it doesn't make alot of sense.....
Unless you intend to transform these machines INTO home versions (Workstations) of these business type machines with no local storage of data.

To even access your machine or data you'd need an account to log in just as it is at your workplace.....
And guess what MS has waiting for you for that purpose once you create it?

The machine is forced to go out, ping the master server and retrieve what it needs to operate as it is in a business that has a network with workstations using a login account. MS has always been big about networking ever since it was started, the cloud itself being a step in that direction to slowly but surely move things in that direction.

Since it now seems they are setting up the basic structure of this for ALL users of Winblows, the thing about TPM itself and TPM modules makes perfect sense.

No more local storage of anything - If you name it, won't be local to your machine anymore once all this is in place nor will your control be local either.
That may take another Win version or two to get going for real but I do see it coming.
Posted on Reply
#120
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
totalfreqWindows 11 is the precurser to SaaS. Once they have everone on an MS account, office 365, and onedrive they will over a free remote VM workstations to access all your stuff from anywhere. Once you sign that...your machinenwill be a remote terminal, and they will then run DRM and software conpatibility checks agajnst everything you run and do. Youll lose control over your data and be enslaved to a small but ever growing fee. Think icloud...free storage to back up your pictures, gontacts and files...of you hit your limit...$1/mo...oh you need more space....$10/mo...its where all this is headed.
I don't know. It's just not a sane thing to do as it would exclude a whole lot of people from using their systems, and that would actually be worse for them even if they did manage to make some money on some users. Windows Home being free even if you aren't upgrading is far more likely IMO. It's all about ecosystems and they want as many people in them as possible. Suddenly charging people for being in it is a bit like Google suddenly charging $10/month for just using a Google Android phone. But want to skip the MS account thing or want to use it in a business setting? Gotta pay for Pro.

Also, what you are describing wouldn't be a wholly bad idea. Have a low power AIO on a desk and just rent power and space as needed. I'd be fine with having that option, but that being the only way to have PC's is a long way off.
BonesExactly what I was thinking.

The current thing with scalpers ATM is just a nusicance to MS and us, that's why in time, everything will have it built-in to ensure you've got it whether you want it or not and this is what I'm thinking here.

TPM modules are used in a business, for a home application it doesn't make alot of sense.....
Unless you intend to transform these machines INTO home versions (Workstations) of these business type machines with no local storage of data.

To even access your machine or data you'd need an account to log in just as it is at your workplace.....
And guess what MS has waiting for you for that purpose once you create it?

The machine is forced to go out, ping the master server and retrieve what it needs to operate as it is in a business that has a network with workstations using a login account. MS has always been big about networking ever since it was started, the cloud itself being a step in that direction to slowly but surely move things in that direction.

Since it now seems they are setting up the basic structure of this for ALL users of Winblows, the thing about TPM itself and TPM modules makes perfect sense.

No more local storage of anything - If you name it, won't be local to your machine anymore once all this is in place nor will your control be local either.
That may take another Win version or two to get going for real but I do see it coming.
So it's literally decades away then. A lot of stuff can happen before then. And again, I'd be fine with having the option described above, but it being the only way to have computers is a really long way away.
Posted on Reply
#121
freeagent
Kind of like the CNC machines at work. You cant just reload its OS if there is a bug, you cant do anything without a code from the office. You cant move some of them more than 6 feet because of geo tagging. And for the CMM you are not allowed to move it at all. You have to get Mitutoyo to come do it at a steep cost.
Posted on Reply
#122
Bones
FrickI don't know. It's just not a sane thing to do as it would exclude a whole lot of people from using their systems, and that would actually be worse for them even if they did manage to make some money on some users. Windows Home being free even if you aren't upgrading is far more likely IMO. It's all about ecosystems and they want as many people in them as possible. Suddenly charging people for being in it is a bit like Google suddenly charging $10/month for just using a Google Android phone. But want to skip the MS account thing or want to use it in a business setting? Gotta pay for Pro.

Also, what you are describing wouldn't be a wholly bad idea. Have a low power AIO on a desk and just rent power and space as needed. I'd be fine with having that option, but that being the only way to have PC's is a long way off.


So it's literally decades away then. A lot of stuff can happen before then. And again, I'd be fine with having the option described above, but it being the only way to have computers is a really long way away.
I'm not sure if it can really be said as being "Decades off" maybe a decade for sure, perhaps two but no more and (To me) that's really stretching it.

Right now trying to get folks to move on won't be easy.
The scalpers will be slowing things down hogging all the TPM modules for unreal profits.
Of course MS didn't think of or even care about this with the modules, they do know in time all hardware dies or just becomes ususeable and the need to replace will occur and since they ain't having to pay for it.....

All these "Moves" have been done with a goal in mind, developement of new tech just doesn't happen with no objective in mind - You have to know WHAT the tech is supposed to do and it's purpose for being made when you go to create it.

The cloud has been around for a few years now, AI learning stuff going on, self-driving cars now starting to appear for real....
The kinds of advances all this needs are right around the corner, much closer than many realize and what we're seeing with the TPM modules and their purpose is just one small facet of it, all of which adds up to a singular purpose and I can promise you, MS is one that does KNOW what the end-game/purpose is all about.
Posted on Reply
#123
totalfreq
FrickI don't know. It's just not a sane thing to do as it would exclude a whole lot of people from using their systems, and that would actually be worse for them even if they did manage to make some money on some users. Windows Home being free even if you aren't upgrading is far more likely IMO. It's all about ecosystems and they want as many people in them as possible. Suddenly charging people for being in it is a bit like Google suddenly charging $10/month for just using a Google Android phone. But want to skip the MS account thing or want to use it in a business setting? Gotta pay for Pro.

Also, what you are describing wouldn't be a wholly bad idea. Have a low power AIO on a desk and just rent power and space as needed. I'd be fine with having that option, but that being the only way to have PC's is a long way off.


So it's literally decades away then. A lot of stuff can happen before then. And again, I'd be fine with having the option described above, but it being the only way to have computers is a really long way away.
Unfortunately its not decades away...office365 was the testbed for this. Ive been running cloud stacks sjnce 2012 and was a satacentr facility manager prior...we are all headed owards headless ends. CloudXR is just another way of moving compute from VR/AR across 5g or AX to do precomoute st the edge and rhe massize processjng at the DC core.

You have a cellphone, internet. Maybe cable TV, spotify or pandora...how many services do you pay for monthly that you didnt pay for 20 years ago? There was a lot of mneybin creating code and then selljng milkions of copies...but then the overhead of constantly updating, pstchjng and improving became cumbersome and new users figured out how to keep their existing systems functional on old versions. This will force people into a required update situstion...ever notice very few ohon3 have enough onboard memepry to last more than 3 or so years worth if OS updates.

Its not decadss away...we are alrwady here. Bte, i charge $0.50/gb of enterprise cloud storage...and people dont delete anythjbg so every month the bill gets higher...and for me addjng a few disks to the san is relatively cheap.
Posted on Reply
#124
InVasMani
Windows S Mode should be reserved strictly for Apple users that want to dual boot to PC.
Posted on Reply
#125
lexluthermiester
trparkyTell that to the likes of both Google Chrome and Firefox in which they deprecated older processors because of support for SSSE3. People bitched then and they'll bitch now. You can't keep supporting old hardware all the time when you want to start taking advantage of newer processor instruction sets.
Oh please... That is a sad, tired old argument and completely out of context here. Firefox and Chrome both STILL support and run fine on every CPU/system that Microsoft has just declared "unsupported".
ZubasaBTW M$ edited the page again, and no mention of soft-floors now.
I guess we must give Microsoft some slack as an indie studio instead of a multi-billion dollar company. /s :roll:
Hmm.. That's interesting. The following hasn't changed:
www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11

Also, this is an interesting read. Pay attention to section 3.6.1.
download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment
Copyright © 2004-2021 www.techpowerup.com. All rights reserved.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners.