Friday, June 25th 2021

Thanks to Windows 11, Scalpers Buy Out Add-on TPM 2.0 Modules

Most modern PC platforms include an fTPM (firmware trusted platform module) of some form. Those that don't, have a TPM 2.0 compatible header on the motherboards. Microsoft's requirement of a hardware TPM for Windows 11 has scalpers go after add-on TPMs, which are typically priced around $20, but now marked up to $100, according to price-tracking by Shen Ye, a senior HTC VIVE exec, who has been tracking prices of add-on TPMs on Twitter.

Scalpers possibly anticipate a rush of ill-informed buyers out for add-on TPMs, who haven't spent 5 minutes digging through their UEFI setup programs for the fTPM toggle. Below is a screenshot of a Ryzen 7 2700X-based machine, paired with an AMD B450 chipset motherboard (a platform from 2018), with its fTPM toggle turned on. The PC now meets Windows 11 system requirements. Windows 11 uses hardware TPMs for secure storage of credentials. "Microsoft, can you not impose a TPM requirement during a silicon shortage? Especially considering most desktop motherboards support TPM only as a purchasable accessory," Shen Ye tweeted.
Source: Shen Ye (Twitter)
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263 Comments on Thanks to Windows 11, Scalpers Buy Out Add-on TPM 2.0 Modules

#126
StaticVapour
I'm so fed up of Windows 10 already that I don't even care about Windows 11.

Nothing is going to block me from moving over using Linux. Every damn time my machine acts up, it eats away tiny bit of that trust I got to tinker with this sloppy OS.

I even have Macbook Pro that Apple considers vintage and that thing for some reason just works. I use it rarely, but when I absolutely need it, that thing just works... Same thing with Thinkpad I had, put Linux on that and kept it as secondary PC in case I need to take computing power on the go.

I'm on my 3rd reinstall of Windows already on this rig, and looks like 4th one is coming soon as this thing boots slowly even with moderately speedy SSD and low amount of programs to start up. Some sort of "Windows rot'

Small rant. Sorry.:banghead:
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#127
mechtech
You mean scalpers did everyone a favour?? ;)
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#128
Makaveli
mechtechYou mean scalpers did everyone a favour?? ;)
I only see price increases if you are trying to buy these things from ebay.

My local retailer price is this.

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#129
TheoneandonlyMrK
Kind of funny to me the conspiracy theories and such.
Windows terminals, shit some companies are already on that and have been for year's.
They're not going to be successful jamming it down consumer throats until it's killer app shows up that's impossible on a normal desktop, who could guess when and what would cause that, not me.
I wanted uefi mode and secure boot, encrypted drive's etc on win 10 and now I have it working TPM is a no brainer to me with My perspective, others differ and I do agree it should be a choice though.
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#130
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
totalfreqUnfortunately its not decades away...office365 was the testbed for this. Ive been running cloud stacks sjnce 2012 and was a satacentr facility manager prior...we are all headed owards headless ends. CloudXR is just another way of moving compute from VR/AR across 5g or AX to do precomoute st the edge and rhe massize processjng at the DC core.

You have a cellphone, internet. Maybe cable TV, spotify or pandora...how many services do you pay for monthly that you didnt pay for 20 years ago? There was a lot of mneybin creating code and then selljng milkions of copies...but then the overhead of constantly updating, pstchjng and improving became cumbersome and new users figured out how to keep their existing systems functional on old versions. This will force people into a required update situstion...ever notice very few ohon3 have enough onboard memepry to last more than 3 or so years worth if OS updates.

Its not decadss away...we are alrwady here. Bte, i charge $0.50/gb of enterprise cloud storage...and people dont delete anythjbg so every month the bill gets higher...and for me addjng a few disks to the san is relatively cheap.
Office is a wholly different beast though. It was always optional with some free alternatives. There is no free alternative to Windows and it's not really optional if you buy say a laptop.
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#131
Zubasa
lexluthermiesterHmm.. That's interesting. The following hasn't changed:
www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11

Also, this is an interesting read. Pay attention to section 3.6.1.
download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf
The entire situation is more confusing then it ever has been, even considering its M$.
The requirement for TPM to be enabled by default is baffling, given that I am not aware of any DIY AM4 motherboard that have fTPM enable be default.
I assume that applies to OEM systems only.

Zen1 CPUs have no functional difference regarding software compare to their Zen+ counter parts.
Zen1 CPUs support every instruction and security feature that Zen+ offers and the only notable difference are cache lateness and clock speeds.
Especially the fTPM is tied the the firmware/Agesa of the platform, and putting a 3950X into a X370 or B450 motherboard doesn't magically make it not support Win11 either.
Same thing is true between most of the Intel X299 CPUs.
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#134
Easo
The more I read comments on this and other W11 news posts, the more I laugh. No, not at Microsoft, but about people.
P.S.
Writing M$ just makes one look like a relict who never grew up.
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#135
dogwitch
i hope they support a 1950x cpu.... really salty on that..
also the tpm for consumer .. yeah no...
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#136
Hiner101
lexluthermiesterAlso, this is an interesting read. Pay attention to section 3.6.1.
download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdfalso about these documents of minimum requirements for windows 11, I wanted to report since I have not yet read here messages about it, the fact that there is also an additional possibility (unfortunately mine).
about these documents of minimum requirements for windows 11, I wanted to report since I have not yet read here messages about it, the fact that, apart CPU support and TPM there is also an additional possibility of incompatibility that at the moment seems pretty much ignored (unfortunately mine).

The section dedicated to the minimum requirements for a system to be considered compatible with windows 11 under TPM is identical to that dedicated to windows 10 and valid from July 2016 for manufacturers.
section 3.7 (page 33)
download.microsoft.com/download/c/1/5/c150e1ca-4a55-4a7e-94c5-bfc8c2e785c5/Windows%2010%20Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements.pdf

I have a system introduced to the market in 2020 (mini pc ZOTAC ZBOX CA621) with a Ryzen 3200U (that has TPM inside like all recent CPU's) indicated as compatible in the win 11 list. You might think it's all ok. Unfortunately in my semi-assembled PC from Zotac the option to enable the fTPM of the ryzen has been removed from the BIOS and clearly there are no headers or anything else on the motherboard. Zotac refuse to do something about this and say the TPM is not supported anymore on this 2020 model. Microsoft...what we have to do in cases like this? something to claim against these unfair manufacturers?

What a shame of windows 11 launch
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#137
TheinsanegamerN
I have 0 interest in 11. The only PC I have running 10 is my tv PC, which is haswell based and thus isn't eligeable anyway. Everything else is running linux, even my gaming rig thanks to valve and proton.

All this for a service pack. We didn't get a new file system that fixes NTFSs flaws nor did we finally get all the control panel options I to settings, or any of the blatant issues with the registry fixed. But hey, now you have to have TPM and a MS account, YAY!
Easomore I read comments on this and other W11 news posts, the more I laugh. No, not at Microsoft, but about people.
P.S.
Writing M$ just makes one look like a relict who never grew up.
And writing comments like this, trying to look "cool", make you look like a shill, and not a particularly Intelligent one
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#138
sweethoneybee
Gruffalo.SoldierApparently you can just delete "appraiserres.dll" from your installation source and it will get rid of the check.
I have deleted the "appraiserres.dll" file and got rid of the check but instead i get the message "this pc can't run windows 11" now. I´m absolutely shure that i fulfill the hardware requirements of power but my CPU and motherboard just don´t have TPM and UEFI at all. Any idea how i could also get rid of this check or message? Windows 10 is running very well since many years on my machine, even with new games. Or is it just not enough to only delete the "appraiserres.dll" file in my case?

EDIT: I know now what my problem with installing Win11 is: I tried it on an empty SSD that always stopped with the message that i don´t meet the requirements but when i try to install it on an SSD that has Win10 already, it works like a charm. I guess now that it will work only with the final version to install it on an empty SSD.
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#139
Totally
I'm surprised no one really caught on the sinister reason for the TPM requirement. Having it MS finally achieves their dream of tying a specific key to a specific to a specific PC. Privacy reasons alone that is a bad thing. I don't like it because if you cook your mb, you might as well just kiss your install goodbye because you can't simply swap in a backup and even if there is a board with TPM 2.0 on hand, Windows won't boot since the keys on the TPM aren't valid. The internet requirement is probably so Windows can phone home and check against a database if the registered mb and Windows key match.
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#140
windwhirl
TotallyI'm surprised no one really caught on the sinister reason for the TPM requirement. Having it MS finally achieves their dream of tying a specific key to a specific to a specific PC. Privacy reasons alone that is a bad thing. I don't like it because if you cook your mb, you might as well just kiss your install goodbye because you can't simply swap in a backup and even if there is a board with TPM 2.0 on hand, Windows won't boot since the keys on the TPM aren't valid. The internet requirement is probably so Windows can phone home and check against a database if the registered mb and Windows key match.
I fail to see why it's so sinister. Piracy isn't a good thing, and I say that as someone who used pirated keys enough to memorize them. Besides, they'd probably tie your license to the account you used at MS Store. For physical keys, I imagine you can simply get on the phone and talk it out with a MS representative. Ultimately, consumer defense groups would come up with lawsuits.

Besides, someone will find a way to circumvent all these protections. No security system is invincible.
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#141
dogwitch
windwhirlI fail to see why it's so sinister. Piracy isn't a good thing, and I say that as someone who used pirated keys enough to memorize them. Besides, they'd probably tie your license to the account you used at MS Store. For physical keys, I imagine you can simply get on the phone and talk it out with a MS representative. Ultimately, consumer defense groups would come up with lawsuits.

Besides, someone will find a way to circumvent all these protections. No security system is invincible.
which is fine. i just donnt want it to knee cap my ability to install it onto my machine. if that the only limiting factor
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#142
windwhirl
dogwitchwhich is fine. i just donnt want it to knee cap my ability to install it onto my machine. if that the only limiting factor
I agree about the potential headache, if anything.
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#143
TheinsanegamerN
windwhirlI fail to see why it's so sinister. Piracy isn't a good thing, and I say that as someone who used pirated keys enough to memorize them. Besides, they'd probably tie your license to the account you used at MS Store. For physical keys, I imagine you can simply get on the phone and talk it out with a MS representative. Ultimately, consumer defense groups would come up with lawsuits.

Besides, someone will find a way to circumvent all these protections. No security system is invincible.
These types of anti piracy measures cause headaches for legitimate users while doing nothing to stop pirates. The Russians have already bypassed the TPM and secure boot restrictions and windows 11 isnt even out.

Given how willingly MS has given out windows 10 and how frankly piss easy 10 is to pirate this is a major shift in the opposite direction.
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#144
lexluthermiester
windwhirlI fail to see why it's so sinister. Piracy isn't a good thing, and I say that as someone who used pirated keys enough to memorize them. Besides, they'd probably tie your license to the account you used at MS Store. For physical keys, I imagine you can simply get on the phone and talk it out with a MS representative. Ultimately, consumer defense groups would come up with lawsuits.

Besides, someone will find a way to circumvent all these protections. No security system is invincible.
None of this crap is about piracy or security. This is about limiting the control users have over the OS so we can not forcibly remove apps or programs we don't want or change the OS to work in a way microsoft disapproves of. These moronic requirements are all about microsoft trying to assert control over the user.
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#145
trparky
lexluthermiesterNone of this crap is about piracy or security. This is about limiting the control users have over the OS so we can not forcibly remove apps or programs we don't want or change the OS to work in a way microsoft disapproves of. These moronic requirements are all about microsoft trying to assert control over the user.
Maybe it’s about securing a platform that many see as a virus filled cesspool of filth. You don’t have to go very far to read of things like ransomeware to know what I mean.

Apple does it and yet nobody seems to have an issue, in fact their users welcome a more secure computing platform and Microsoft knows this. They’re copying Apple here.
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#146
Frank_100
MusselsNow, this is coming from someone who never used this, read up on it, or gives a single shit about it, but since i've seen it tied into file encryption, bitlocker and so on i assumed it was a bunch of locally stored security keys, so if someone cloned your data/hard drives they'd be unable to decrypt it. Could be extended to prevent stuff like ransomware, maybe?
It appears from some quick reading that Linux can't tell the difference between BitLocker encrypted data and free hard drive space. If this is true, it looks like Windows 11 is a move against dual boot systems and system backups that clone the drive outside of windows..

If I am wrong about this (and I hope I am) Linux will only be available on a Windows configured PC as an emulation.

It is also worrying how will 3rd party drive encryption work in Windows 11. Will Microsoft have access to all keys in TPM Module.

After more reading: BitLocked drives can be cloned but it is slow and you need a really big backup drive because the whole drive has to be copied, and not all cloning software can do it.

Dual boots can be installed on BitLocked systems but the drive has to be decrypted first.

Will windows 11 even allow BitLocker to be turned off, I don't know.
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#147
lexluthermiester
trparkyMaybe it’s about securing a platform that many see as a virus filled cesspool of filth. You don’t have to go very far to read of things like ransomeware to know what I mean.
Can't have liberty and freedom without dealing with some unpleasantness from d-bags that want to do bad things. Fact of life. Learn to live with it, learn how to properly protect yourself digitally(with proper understanding of utilities and computing ethic) or crawl under a rock and stay there.
(that last part was not aimed at you personally)
trparkyApple does it and yet nobody seems to have an issue
Rubbish nonsense. I do not and will not use Apple products for the very reason that I can not gain control over my own device. I do not and will not play in a walled garden and I am FAR from alone in that opinion.
trparkyin fact their users welcome a more secure computing platform and Microsoft knows this.
And some of those people are ignorant sheep.
trparkyThey’re copying Apple here.
There are MUCH better ways to secure a platform. microsoft is too lazy to put in the work and creative thinking to do it right.
Frank_100If I am wrong about this (and I hope I am) Linux will only be available on a Windows configured PC as an emulation.
Yet another reason to refuse to accept microsoft's dumbass limitations. With SecureBoot enabled, multi-boot system configurations(systems setup with multiple bootable drives with differing OSes on each) are nearly impossible to use. This is one of the reasons I will not be tolerating these limitations.
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#148
trparky
lexluthermiesterCan't have liberty and freedom without dealing
Well if people would quit pissing in the Cornflakes maybe we might be able to have nice things.
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#149
lexluthermiester
trparkyWell if people would quit pissing in the Cornflakes maybe we might be able to have nice things.
In a perfect society that would be a thing. Unfortunately, this is the real world, a world in which bad people do bad things. It is a world were we the people need to learn to protect ourselves instead of relying on government and corporations to protect us like pathetic little sheep.
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#150
trparky
Yes, I practice safe computing habits but for once I'd like to be able to let my guard down without everyone trying to destroy my systems while doing so.
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