The fact that MS needs to clarify this is a disaster in and of itself. It feels like this gen has been one PR nightmare after another for Xbox.

While confusing us, xbox can often also confuse itself.
Lord bless these clumsy, disorganized, too-resourceful for its own good companies.

dj-electricWhile confusing us, xbox can often also confuse itself.
Lord bless these clumsy, disorganized, too-resourceful for its own good companies.

Wanna bet how many meetings to fix an issue end with "new direction" instead of an actual fix, without questioning?

Microsoft keeps thinking its a hardware company, when in fact its a software company and it will never be Apple.

Blundering fools haven't made a single piece of successful hardware in their lives other than a mouse and keyboard. The only success they have is making a closed garden x86 PC enclosed in a black piece of plastic that can play a few games... and then they proceed to kill its unique selling points by porting everything to the PC. Its hilariously bottom barrel really if you consider how long and how much was invested at this point. Similarly, they have tons of studios... and there's barely solid content coming out of them, let alone something unique.

Games For Windows Live.... on endless repeat.

_JP_Wanna bet how many meetings to fix an issue end with "new direction" instead of an actual fix, without questioning?

I can't wait for them to start bundling Kinect again and forcing always online. Or some weak sauce derivative of the Hololens. Popcorn moments!

Although a 30 dollar/mo cloud gaming subscription gets pretty close to this insanity, tbf

3DVCashThe fact that MS needs to clarify this is a disaster in and of itself. It feels like this gen has been one PR nightmare after another for Xbox.

I think this has nothing to do with MS, its just the horde of sony fanboys with web(cam) lying and lying over again, every day.

cucolI think this has nothing to do with MS, its just the horde of sony fanboys with web(cam) lying and lying over again, every day.

You clearly haven't been paying attention then... Phil Spencer has been speaking in vagueness for several years now, all we know is Xbox is going to be 'everywhere' and a lot of that leads to logical questions about why you would even need to release another console, after all, we have multiple gaming devices around us.

What you see here is a failure of a strategy coming to fruition - failing as expected. People don't understand why they need an xbox branded Ally to begin with. The OG version already ran all their shit and gets similar software.

Isn't the upcoming console powered by an off the shelf part because Xbone don't have enough faith to order custom silicone? Magnus APU?

To add to ally x woes it's faster with Linux on it windows is still to fat Microsoft need to do lots more in this regard.
I watched some reviewers calling it a victory for MS being on par with Linux installs on the Ally X, I got zero clue who would think that a game running through proton being on par with native Windows is a win for Windows.

Vayra86You clearly haven't been paying attention then... Phil Spencer has been speaking in vagueness for several years now, all we know is Xbox is going to be 'everywhere' and a lot of that leads to logical questions about why you would even need to release another console, after all, we have multiple gaming devices around us.

What you see here is a failure of a strategy coming to fruition - failing as expected. People don't understand why they need an xbox branded Ally to begin with. The OG version already ran all their shit and gets similar software.

Not sure what you mean. Xbox announced new console hardware before the “This is an Xbox” campaign, and they never said otherwise. IMHO, this is just Sony fanboys’ wishful thinking — nothing to do with MS.


Xbox’s next-gen console isn’t something you can develop in just two years.

Edit: Phil Spencer talked about next generation hardware console on Xbox & Bethesda Showcase 2022, if im not mistaken.

Vayra86Microsoft keeps thinking its a hardware company, when in fact its a software company and it will never be Apple.

Blundering fools haven't made a single piece of successful hardware in their lives other than a mouse and keyboard.


I can't wait for them to start bundling Kinect again and forcing always online. Or some weak sauce derivative of the Hololens. Popcorn moments!

The Xbox 360 was a successful product within its generation, and that was probably the generation that had the most balanced and competitive market. But granted, Sony made some very unfortunate hardware choices at the PS3 launch, which took time to rectify. Although you could say the same with the 360 RoD, which was only fixed after the refresh. Nintendo was the only one with a stable and reliable console that gen.

The Xbox issue is actually a software and marketing problem, not a hardware problem. Both living room consoles have been using very similar hardware and prices. The tech itself is fine. Ms failed to follow up on the 360 because the new guy in charge was clueless about gaming: massive focus on the Xbone one being a TV box, preventing games from being borrowed from your friends wich was a big aspect of choosing a console. And Microsoft was greedy with the price wich allowed the PS4 to undercut them. PS4, which was also a very competent TV box, but PlayStation didn't forget what their company is about: It's a gaming console that can also launch Netflix, ESPN etc.... Xbox tried to sell a TV box that could also launch games...if you were online.

On the software side, well, they never quite managed to have a game line-up as strong as the 360, which hosted many classics. Even the first-gen Xbox had interesting titles coming from its ties with Sega.

A modern hardware company has to be a software company as well. Just look at how Sony failed to stand with Apple, even though they had world-renowned expertise in audio, photo, video, gaming, and mobile devices. They never managed to bring everything in a cohesive and user-friendly package, and got beaten twice by the new kid on the block with the iPod and iPhone.

Microsoft's issue is that they can't read the room when it comes to the consumer market. They've been very insightful with the professionals' needs in the clouds, but I don't remember anything that they've purposefully done for the consumer market that ended up being cherished and a constant strategy with strong follow-up. Windows being heavily customizable then, now feels like they couldn't bother with locking it down then, than a real feature of Windows. A happy accident for us that was never part of the plan. MacOS overall design philosophy hasn't changed after two decades. If you knew how to use Os X Cheetah, you won't have too much trouble with Tahoe. Meanwhile, Windows had a lot of brutal cosmetic changes while still having a ton of legacy systems overlapping that will break the OS if they aren't modernized with care. MS has been trying to migrate the settings panel for over a decade.

cucolNot sure what you mean. Xbox announced new console hardware before the “This is an Xbox” campaign, and they never said otherwise. IMHO, this is just Sony fanboys’ wishful thinking — nothing to do with MS.


Xbox’s next-gen console isn’t something you can develop in just two years.

Edit: Phil Spencer talked about next generation hardware console on Xbox & Bethesda Showcase 2022, if im not mistaken.

So did you not read the comment? Seems pretty clear to me. MIcrosoft has been flip flopping on whether it is going to be a console developer or a software distributor. GamePass undermines the entire xbox hardware ecosystem and that is obvious by both the lack of demand for current series consoles and the confusion about microsoft continuing to make xbox consoles.

Also pro tip: this is not WCCFtech. Calling everyone "sony fanboys" for not jumping in like with Phil is just ridiculous.

dyonoctisThe Xbox 360 was a successful product within its generation, and that was probably the generation that had the most balanced and competitive market. But granted, Sony made some very unfortunate hardware choices at the PS3 launch, which took time to rectify. Although you could say the same with the 360 RoD, which was only fixed after the refresh. Nintendo was the only one with a stable and reliable console that gen.

The Xbox issue is actually a software and marketing problem, not a hardware problem. Both living room consoles have been using very similar hardware and prices. The tech itself is fine. Ms failed to follow up on the 360 because the new guy in charge was clueless about gaming: massive focus on the Xbone one being a TV box, preventing games from being borrowed from your friends wich was a big aspect of choosing a console. And Microsoft was greedy with the price wich allowed the PS4 to undercut them. PS4, which was also a very competent TV box, but PlayStation didn't forget what their company is about: It's a gaming console that can also launch Netflix, ESPN etc.... Xbox tried to sell a TV box that could also launch games...if you were online.

On the software side, well, they never quite managed to have a game line-up as strong as the 360, which hosted many classics. Even the first-gen Xbox had interesting titles coming from its ties with Sega.

A modern hardware company has to be a software company as well. Just look at how Sony failed to stand with Apple, even though they had world-renowned expertise in audio, photo, video, gaming, and mobile devices. They never managed to bring everything in a cohesive and user-friendly package, and got beaten twice by the new kid on the block with the iPod and iPhone.

Microsoft's issue is that they can't read the room when it comes to the consumer market. They've been very insightful with the professionals' needs in the clouds, but I don't remember anything that they've purposefully done for the consumer market that ended up being cherished and a constant strategy with strong follow-up. Windows being heavily customizable then, now feels like they couldn't bother with locking it down then, than a real feature of Windows. A happy accident for us that was never part of the plan. MacOS overall design philosophy hasn't changed after two decades. If you knew how to use Os X Cheetah, you won't have too much trouble with Tahoe. Meanwhile, Windows had a lot of brutal cosmetic changes while still having a ton of legacy systems overlapping that will break the OS if they aren't modernized with care. MS has been trying to migrate the settings panel for over a decade.

I still maintain that the Xbox 360 was a major fluke pushed by the hype of Halo and the utter disaster that was the PS3 launch. Had the PS3 launched without the backwards compatibility at $399 and if sony had bothered investing more into first party games the first couple years, the 360 would have been a failure along the lines of the original xbox.

TheinsanegamerNI still maintain that the Xbox 360 was a major fluke pushed by the hype of Halo and the utter disaster that was the PS3 launch. Had the PS3 launched without the backwards compatibility at $399 and if sony had bothered investing more into first party games the first couple years, the 360 would have been a failure along the lines of the original xbox.

It basically was, yeah. Granted, the absolute fumble that was the XBone didn’t help MS down the line to repeat that success, but they very much were bailed out by the fact that, for the first couple of years, the PS3 was literally a more expensive machine that had fuck all to play on it and the multiplat titles on it were strictly inferior to 360 versions due to the scuffed architecture. The fact that MP gaming on consoles was on the rise and, at the time, Live was significantly more polished than PSN didn’t help matters either.

Their next generation of controllers better be TMR...

Vayra86Microsoft keeps thinking its a hardware company, when in fact its a software company and it will never be Apple.

Blundering fools haven't made a single piece of successful hardware in their lives other than a mouse and keyboard. The only success they have is making a closed garden x86 PC enclosed in a black piece of plastic that can play a few games... and then they proceed to kill its unique selling points by porting everything to the PC. Its hilariously bottom barrel really if you consider how long and how much was invested at this point. Similarly, they have tons of studios... and there's barely solid content coming out of them, let alone something unique.

Games For Windows Live.... on endless repeat.


I can't wait for them to start bundling Kinect again and forcing always online. Or some weak sauce derivative of the Hololens. Popcorn moments!

Although a 30 dollar/mo cloud gaming subscription gets pretty close to this insanity, tbf

If they actually made it like an actual computer like what the steam deck would, it would genuinely be worth getting, but no. We can't have good things like that, they have to cosplay being apple with their closed garden bullshit ecosystem while layering on as many subscription services as humanly possible. The fact is that the ps5 and xbox series x are basically identical when it comes to actual hardware, their's no reason to get an xbox over a ps5 save for a couple of niche's at best. They've been doing the same formula since the xbox 360 with absolutely no form of innovation in sight, if they're dealing with declining sales it's because of their absolute refusal to actually try to make any thing worth the consumers time.

hellotheirbuddyIf they actually made it like an actual computer like what the steam deck would, it would genuinely be worth getting, but no. We can't have good things like that, they have to cosplay being apple with their closed garden bullshit ecosystem while layering on as many subscription services as humanly possible. The fact is that the ps5 and xbox series x are basically identical when it comes to actual hardware, their's no reason to get an xbox over a ps5 save for a couple of niche's at best. They've been doing the same formula since the xbox 360 with absolutely no form of innovation in sight, if they're dealing with declining sales it's because of their absolute refusal to actually try to make any thing worth the consumers time.

Dozens of you would buy them! Dozens!

Can you point to a single mini PC that has sold remotely close to even the failed series S/X generation?

We've seen "mini PC the size of a console" before, and that business model has repeatedly failed. The PC market just isnt interested in a non upgradeable console box running Windows. Not to any level that is sustainable economically, after all.

Can you really say, with a straight face, that you'd spend $1500 on a series X because it could run Windows?

cucolNot sure what you mean. Xbox announced new console hardware before the “This is an Xbox” campaign, and they never said otherwise. IMHO, this is just Sony fanboys’ wishful thinking — nothing to do with MS.


Xbox’s next-gen console isn’t something you can develop in just two years.

Edit: Phil Spencer talked about next generation hardware console on Xbox & Bethesda Showcase 2022, if im not mistaken.

Nobody is denying that he did that. What happened here is that Microsoft failed to control the dialogue around their brand, because of their actions in the gaming market.

Actions speak louder than words. Any kind of confusion is on MS and MS alone, and frankly, regardless of what they say, look at what Xbox is at this point. Its a portal to games you can also play elsewhere. Who is going to miss this ever? Microsoft has spent billions to buy publishers and what do they publish? The same shit we always had. For gamers, Microsoft is really not even a player, so yes, doubt is natural. Their track record is utterly crap, one PR fail after another.

dj-electricWhile confusing us, xbox can often also confuse itself.
Lord bless these clumsy, disorganized, too-resourceful for its own good companies.

Let's all spray that magic holy water on your Xbox when it's on and your gaming on it. Spray lots and lots of magic Holy water on it.

Taking what the Xbox executives said aside, I feel their actions over the past few years is a sign they have no clue what they need to do to better compete with Sony in the console space. One moment they were paying stupid amount of money to buy big game studios and I was thinking they are finally making exclusives for the Xbox. Well, it’s not so exclusive when it’s on the PC, but it’s better than nothing. Next moment, they scrap the exclusivity and open it up for all platforms. I mean the reason why anyone will buy a hunk of a console is (1) cheaper than PC. But with recent price increases, not sure if it’s worth the money. (2) Exclusive games, and there’s none here. The next issue is the expensive Gamepass now. Conceptually it’s good because you get a lot of games to play, however, unlike watching a movie or series, it’s unlikely for someone to play 3 or more games within the month to make it worth. Unless there are family members who are using the same pass to play their preferred games. So as the price goes up, the value of Gamepass has gone down.

So all in all, I generally don’t see any direction with the Xbox team. Seems like they are just taking random steps reacting to market and competition. The Asus Xbox Ally is a good example as well. There is nothing Xbox about it other than the UI that is a lipstick on hog call Windows and the Xbox button.

A&P211Let's all spray that magic holy water on your Xbox when it's on and your gaming on it. Spray lots and lots of magic Holy water on it.

Does this lead to the HROD? (Holy Ring of Death)

watzupkenTaking what the Xbox executives said aside, I feel their actions over the past few years is a sign they have no clue what they need to do to better compete with Sony in the console space. One moment they were paying stupid amount of money to buy big game studios and I was thinking they are finally making exclusives for the Xbox. Well, it’s not so exclusive when it’s on the PC, but it’s better than nothing. Next moment, they scrap the exclusivity and open it up for all platforms. I mean the reason why anyone will buy a hunk of a console is (1) cheaper than PC. But with recent price increases, not sure if it’s worth the money. (2) Exclusive games, and there’s none here. The next issue is the expensive Gamepass now. Conceptually it’s good because you get a lot of games to play, however, unlike watching a movie or series, it’s unlikely for someone to play 3 or more games within the month to make it worth. Unless there are family members who are using the same pass to play their preferred games. So as the price goes up, the value of Gamepass has gone down.

So all in all, I generally don’t see any direction with the Xbox team. Seems like they are just taking random steps reacting to market and competition. The Asus Xbox Ally is a good example as well. There is nothing Xbox about it other than the UI that is a lipstick on hog call Windows and the Xbox button.

But that's just the prob, they realized AGAIN. that they can't compete. Sony gave them the ball with the ps3 blunder and while most of that success came in US and a few in Europe, MS never conquer Japan or sit well with Japanese devs. Towards then end of the ps3 gen, the fumbling started and they never recovered.

GamerPass is basically their last Hurrah and what MS wishes is that GP is allowed on Sony and Nintendo boxes, because lets be honest the service will likely to keep getting expensive and major growth is likely over.

Its funny, how they went out of their way to buy up these studios and outside of CoD and Forza H, not much has really BOOM. Its also like they don't don't know what to make anymore and with GP providing a good revenue stream they see no urgency to fix said problem.

The mere fact they have to come out and address this, clearly says they've been getting negative feedback from it.

For me personably, i wouldn't mind them just becoming a 3rd party publishing juggernaut and leave the console space to Sony & Nintendo, but for now the GP numbers likely means we get one more console to see if there's more growth there.

Vayra86Does this lead to the HROD? (Holy Ring of Death)

It leads to the holy land