Vayra86That's just great marketing, not bad PR. Those who know better will ignore it, and those who don't, will fall for it.

That's who Nvidia cards are made and marketed for these days - people who don't know better. No offense to the very few who genuinely need it for CUDA. So let's stop comparing bad PR, shall we? :)

ShihabNot quite how the narrative goes.
While the original FSR4 implementation indeed did not (and still does not) work on pre-RDNA4 chips, but AMD evidently was working on adapting the tech to run with the data primitives older hardware supports. What the community got to work was AMD’s own work.
The current fiasco leads one to conclude that the official, FSR4 porting program is canned, but not due to incompetence (at least, not an engineering one specific to FSR), given the above.

but that's exactly what they are saying

FSR4 won't (in all likelihood) run on 6xxx only because AMD doesn't want it to, not because it can't.

AusWolfTalking about bad PR, let's also not forget that 5070 = 4090, right? ;)

You're omitting half of the quote from Jensen, but nowadays people love to cut quotes short in order to win arguments. He explicitly said "with the help of Artificial Intelligence" right after he showed this slide. Can't blame really people for that though, it apparently makes money to hate on brands today.

RinSenpaiYou're omitting half of the quote from Jensen, but nowadays people love to cut quotes short in order to win arguments. He explicitly said "with the help of Artificial Intelligence" right after he showed this slide. Can't blame really people for that though, it apparently makes money to hate on brands today.

With the number of people who watch those presentations vs just scroll through the slides on news sites... Yeah, right... Or the slides where you have to squint to read the fine print to realise that they use different settings on the different GPU generations to fake the entire comparison... Whether you call them lies, or technical details, it doesn't matter. It's a deliberate attempt to mislead you to believe that the product you're getting is better than it actually is.

Edit: What they conveniently forget to tell you is that "with the help of AI" is by far not the same experience as native res no frame gen. So please allow me to call it a lie.

At least here, on topic, we're only talking about the inability to word a proper PR announcement that people understand on first read. Nobody is being purposefully lied to. Nobody is getting less than they were told to believe.

So yeah, let's drop the topic of bad PR, shall we?

RinSenpaiYou're omitting half of the quote from Jensen, but nowadays people love to cut quotes short in order to win arguments.

That and every other bad tactic in the book, plus the two situations aren't really comparable anyway. One being boasting on stage about new features, the other being reclarifying the clarification of the clarification.

wolfThat and every other bad tactic in the book, plus the two situations aren't really comparable anyway. One being boasting on stage about new features, the other being reclarifying the clarification of the clarification.

Boasting about new features and lying about performance are not the same thing, but sure, believe what you will.

I agree that AMD's PR is incompetent, but that doesn't compare to Nvidia's deliberate lies to cover the fact that there's zero improvement in Blackwell, imo.

With all that said, let's not turn this into a flame war, please. All I was trying to say is that a simple PR blunder is not enough to turn away from a company unless one never had any interest in its products to begin with.

Well, that's OK.

If AMD will refrain from any future stuff for my RX 6800xt but games still run mostly fine on it, I will just switch over to XESS 3 when it comes out as it will work with RX 6800xt (so far from what we know). And I have done quite a bit of testing - Palworld, Silent Hill 2 Remake, Silent Hill F, Expedition 33, Alan Wake 2, Witcher 3 and RDR2 and I found that I couldn't really see much of a difference between XESS 2 and FSR4. Slight improvement in image quality but nothing I would actually notice when actually playing the game vs watching the screen.

AusWolfAll I was trying to say is that a simple PR blunder is not enough to turn away from a company unless one never had any interest in its products to begin with.

All others including me are saying is that this isn't the first PR blunder from AMD, its actually yet another in an endless string of blunders, and its of a completely different nature than Nvidia's marketing successes, which you frame as 'lies' to compare to AMD's incompetence (or in some weird way, it being somehow similar...lol) but nobody is talking about truth or lie here. We're talking about PR and how it affects the company and its success. Additionally, we're talking about patterns: the AMD pattern of late to market and too little too late; versus the Nvidia pattern of being ahead of the curve, and commanding far greater mindshare because of it.

There are far fewer people blaming Nvidia for making an overblown comparison of 5070=4090 than there are people feeling meh about AMD's announcement and that's even considering just 1 or 2 out of 10 GPUs are AMD owned in that same crowd. And that has absolutely nothing to do with people being stupid or being lied to. Its about the picture each company paints, a painting that is created over many years in every customer's mind. Somehow in your mind, these paintings are comparable. It isn't comparable, not even remotely, and this difference is a key player in the reason AMD's dGPU market share is historically at the lowest % ever. The only one capable of changing that dynamic, is AMD, as you can rest assured Nvidia isn't going to back down on its successful strategy. You can take a look at Zen to see how long a company needs to consistently release good products to change that dynamic - and here we have AMD botching every odd GPU gen released, and wondering why it doesn't work.

Visible NoiseYep, everything is fine as long as you don’t want to play new releases on your two year old AMD GPU.

That’s the equivalent of Nvidia dropping support for the RTX 4090.

Nothing was dropped.

HairyLobstersNothing was dropped.

Correct, because AMD is taking its sweet time to get to releasing, but initially planned features were most definitely dropped, at least up till today. Time will tell if AMD truly hasn't dropped anything.

Vayra86All others including me are saying is that this isn't the first PR blunder from AMD, its actually yet another in an endless string of blunders, and its of a completely different nature than Nvidia's marketing successes, which you frame as 'lies' to compare to AMD's incompetence (or in some weird way, it being somehow similar...lol) but nobody is talking about truth or lie here. We're talking about PR and how it affects the company and its success. Additionally, we're talking about patterns: the AMD pattern of late to market and too little too late; versus the Nvidia pattern of being ahead of the curve, and commanding far greater mindshare because of it.

There are far fewer people blaming Nvidia for making an overblown comparison of 5070=4090 than there are people feeling meh about AMD's announcement and that's even considering just 1 or 2 out of 10 GPUs are AMD owned in that same crowd. And that has absolutely nothing to do with people being stupid or being lied to. Its about the picture each company paints, a painting that is created over many years in every customer's mind. Somehow in your mind, these paintings are comparable. It isn't comparable, not even remotely, and this difference is a key player in the reason AMD's dGPU market share is historically at the lowest % ever. The only one capable of changing that dynamic, is AMD, as you can rest assured Nvidia isn't going to back down on its successful strategy. You can take a look at Zen to see how long a company needs to consistently release good products to change that dynamic - and here we have AMD botching every odd GPU gen released, and wondering why it doesn't work.

I don't disagree with you that AMD's PR team is totally incompetent. I'm only saying that...
1. Being incompetent is infinitely more forgivable than deliberately lying to potential customers in order to sell products that are inferior to what they're being advertised as, and that...
2. PR doesn't have any effect on the quality of the product. I take every single product at face value. I look at the price, performance, features, and compare them to my needs, like I think everybody should. Whoever gives a damn about PR is an idiot. I'm not even trying to mitigate this statement.

Vayra86Correct, because AMD is taking its sweet time to get to releasing, but initially planned features were most definitely dropped, at least up till today. Time will tell if AMD truly hasn't dropped anything.

What features were initially planned? There were rumours of AMD working on a back port of FSR 4 for older GPUs, but that was only a rumour. That feature was never "dropped" as it was never even announced.

bruhhhh.... i bought a 5500 xt 4 years ago and this is what i get 😭

LilithBytesbruhhhh.... i bought a 5500 xt 4 years ago and this is what i get 😭

What do you get? Did your 5500 XT stop working?

LilithBytesbruhhhh.... i bought a 5500 xt 4 years ago and this is what i get 😭

It's pretty average on more than one level, and feeling upset about AMD's actions here is a valid feeling.

AusWolfWhat do you get? Did your 5500 XT stop working?

No ofc not, but I'm physically disabled and unable to work, I'm on ODSP and get $839 once per month and with all my bills it leaves me with less than $30 free to do with as i please (if no unexpected expenses show up anyways), and the fact they're dropping game optimizations means they're going to drop main driver support within the next few years, I will literally not be able to buy another powerful GPU for years, even if i try to save up.

To summarize what i get from this: nothing good, just misery.

(God, what a sinkhole of a thread, lol)

I've never been a red team member---heck, I'm not even super educated on their lineup---but I always respected AMD for their persistence and honestly great value cards for the last few generations. Team green or not, NVIDIA hasn't had the best PR, pricing, and honest advertising especially after the 50 series (my 5070 is NOT a 4090!). Basically saying my take on all this is largely from a PR perspective.

So why would AMD do this?? It feels like there's nothing to gain. Even if they have a single-digit market share for GPUs, they're sure as heck not some pitiful underdog, in fact this thread shows ardent adoration for AMD---making this move all the more painful and frustrating. From what I can glean from the---wow, 9 pages---messages in this thread, some theorize it's a limitation of adjacent hardware in some form or other, but there's not really an excuse when AMD has shown very much capable in adapting and even rolling back bad decisions in the past. But to do this was a decision. Not unintentional, not happenstance, not negligence in a classic sense. There's every right to be angry. The company you bought from saying "yeah we decided the thing you spent hundreds on relatively recently isn't really our priority anymore. Anyways---go red team!" is demoralizing. If it really is (theoretically) an issue with compatibility adjacent hardware functions or something less in the hands of AMD... then we ALL should agree they could have gone about relaying this differently. Aka, wording a bad thing... less bad.

I pray Intel takes this opportunity to keep being the lesser-of-three-evils and keep innovating their GPUs to compete. Not just for the sake of competition, but to give us more options as consumers, not confined to team red (now unpredictable) or team green (overpriced). Hope AMD backtracks on this.

LilithBytesI will literally not be able to buy another powerful GPU for years, even if i try to save up.

It's a 5500 XT. The exact same performance territory as my RX 580 that went out of Win7 support 2mon before I bought it.
It's finally out of support and there have been no issues with this other than the fact that it can't coexist with newer cards.
The performance isn't going off a cliff and those binaries aren't getting any less complex with 7K/9K series. This is fine (for now).
I would expect the 5500 XT to drop out of support around mid ~2026 if we didn't have a stable driver model. Expect 2028ish.

LilithBytesNo ofc not, but I'm physically disabled and unable to work, I'm on ODSP and get $839 once per month and with all my bills it leaves me with less than $30 free to do with as i please (if no unexpected expenses show up anyways), and the fact they're dropping game optimizations means they're going to drop main driver support within the next few years, I will literally not be able to buy another powerful GPU for years, even if i try to save up.

To summarize what i get from this: nothing good, just misery.

They are not dropping game optimisations. There is an updated article where they clarify what "maintenance mode" means (I know, it's confusing).

you mean "there is an updated article where they do a 180° after shit got thrown at them"

y2faultyyou mean "there is an updated article where they do a 180° after shit got thrown at them"

As far as I can tell, it's not even a true 180, RDNA1 and 2 will still be on a different branch, that appears to not receive new features (Redstone, FSR4?), and game optimisation or compatibility likely limited to "it doesn't crash", rather than any meaningful optimisation, due to the branch differences. It's extremely unlikely to get the same polish and attention as RDNA 4 and 3. And wether that was always going to be the case, as perhaps was expected, and which is likely what the major competitor does (well, the same vintage is on the same branch as current, so already better), they still said the quiet part out loud, then mishandled the reply, then mishandled it again, and now people still have have genuine, legitimate unanswered questions...

Fine wine, a term quickly being undone, turned to vinegar, and applying more to their competitors than Radeon since about 2018.

y2faultyyou mean "there is an updated article where they do a 180° after shit got thrown at them"

No, I mean they clarified what they meant after their initial announcement was a jumbled mess that nobody understood.

wolfAs far as I can tell, it's not even a true 180, RDNA1 and 2 will still be on a different branch, that appears to not receive new features (Redstone, FSR4?), and game optimisation or compatibility likely limited to "it doesn't crash", rather than any meaningful optimisation, due to the branch differences. It's extremely unlikely to get the same polish and attention as RDNA 4 and 3. And wether that was always going to be the case, as perhaps was expected, and which is likely what the major competitor does (well, the same vintage is on the same branch as current, so already better), they still said the quiet part out loud, then mishandled the reply, then mishandled it again, and now people still have have genuine, legitimate unanswered questions...

Fine wine, a term quickly being undone, turned to vinegar, and applying more to their competitors than Radeon since about 2018.

What "game optimisations" are we expecting? Do you think that 5500 XT that runs X new game at 20 FPS will suddenly burst into flames and overtake the 9070 XT?

AusWolfNo, I mean they clarified what they meant after their initial announcement was a jumbled mess that nobody understood.

The driver release notes explicitly state "New Game Support and Expanded Vulkan Extensions Support is available to Radeon RX 7000 and 9000 series graphics products."

That is extremely clear, the only possible meaning is that new game support is only for RDNA 3 and 4 GPUs.

LastDudeALiveThe driver release notes explicitly state "New Game Support and Expanded Vulkan Extensions Support is available to Radeon RX 7000 and 9000 series graphics products."

That is extremely clear, the only possible meaning is that new game support is only for RDNA 3 and 4 GPUs.

I recommend reading at least the title of this article:
www.techpowerup.com/342481/amd-clarifies-maintenance-mode-for-radeon-rx-5000-6000-series-first-day-game-support-remains
"First-Day Game Support Remains" - it couldn't be any clearer than that.

AusWolfI recommend reading at least the title of this article:
www.techpowerup.com/342481/amd-clarifies-maintenance-mode-for-radeon-rx-5000-6000-series-first-day-game-support-remains

Yes, that's when they reversed course. Their initial announcement was "Future driver updates with targeted game optimizations will focus on RDNA 3 and RDNA 4 GPUs."

Do you not understand the timeline? Here's the sequence of events:

Oct 29: 25.10.2 Drivers released, with this message. "New Game Support and Expanded Vulkan Extensions Support is available to Radeon RX 7000 and 9000 series graphics products."

Oct 30: AMD announces that RDNA 1 and 2 are placed in "maintenance mode," and game optimizations going forward are for RDNA 3 and 4.

Oct 31: AMD releases this is a terrible decision and backtracks (what you just posted).

LastDudeALiveYes, that's when they reversed course. Their initial announcement was "Future driver updates with targeted game optimizations will focus on RDNA 3 and RDNA 4 GPUs."

Do you not understand the timeline?

Do you not understand that the timeline is irrelevant? RDNA 1 and 2 will get new game support. End of story.