R-T-BNo shit, but that wasn't the stat you were referencing. You were talking about games that "only run on windows" of which there are very few these days.

"very few"

ProtonDB says that gold and platinum combined, EG games that run without issues, stands at 69%. That's a nice number. Are you implying that 31% of the steam library is "very few" games?

www.protondb.com/

R-T-BNot in the quantities that the steam deck sells, I'd wager.

Most solid number is 3.7 million of the 6 million total handheld sales. So yes, the steam deck is the big seller. Dominant even. Clearly there is a market for Windows handhelds too.
www.techspot.com/news/106921-handheld-gaming-pcs-surpass-6-million-sales-steam.html
www.windowscentral.com/gaming/xbox/xbox-ally-x-supply-woes-continue-as-asus-admits-demand-exceeded-expectations-we-are-working-with-closely-with-key-component-suppliers-to-ramp-up-production

I do like Valves continued push with SteamOS. Rather than just adapt a version of Windows, they are legitimately forwarding the cause of PC gaming outside of Windows and consoles, while still offering an open system for user choice. As of right now, the only game that doesn’t run on my Bazzite build is Destiny 2, and that’s because of their dumb anti-cheat stance. Anyway, what’s nice about SteamOS is that it doesn’t load a desktop until you ask it to, so it saves on that overhead. It’s a console with the ability to run a desktop, which makes a ton of sense on handhelds and living room setups.

Hecate91Not by choice though, if gamers knew of an alternative like SteamOS, I'm sure some would give it a try.

Gamers are not ignorant blobs waiting for the glorious angel of Linus to grace them with wisdom. Most are not going to switch if some of their library doesnt work. If you play Battlefield, or CoD, or other competitive games, Linux is a no go.

Hecate91All of the work past 10 just seems unnecessary, IMO. No one wants or needs all of the crap and bloat with 11.

And people all said the same thing about 10, and 8. History repeating itself. I certainly would not want to go back to an OS that got progressively slower to update the more updates existed, or couldnt boot on USB 3 ports, or had to have drivers installed by hand for all your different hardware.

Hecate91Such as?

Multiplayer games. There's a very long list you can pursue at your leisure.

Hecate91A SteamOS/Linux handheld is a better experience for a handheld, like you can put the device on sleep mode and it's not going to consume the whole battery or randomly power back on to force an update, once you power it back on, resuming a game works a lot better than it does on Windows.

This is entirely subjective. Up until last month, you had to leave your steam deck ON, screen ON, to download updates. Kinda big oopsie to make on a portable device, dont you think? Meanwhile, the windows portables had no issue downloading in the background not burning energy keeping the screen on for no reason.

Hecate91It seems like you want desktop gaming in a handheld and none of them deliver that experience, ironically enough you're asking why people want SteamOS on a handheld because you don't like SteamOS/Linux.

I have never asked why people want SteamOS on a handheld. Nor did I ever say I wanted a desktop gaming experience on a portable. You can easily go to the other Windows full screen experience threads and see me talking about how a more TV focused UI is a GOOD idea for portables.

Dont spread misinformation grasping at straws.

Hecate91People are buying Windows handhelds because it's the familiar branding of Xbox, most people seeing a Steam Deck in a store won't know what SteamOS is.

People who dont know what SteamOS is are not buying Steam decks at all.

LastDudeALivePer the linked articles, "Microsoft states that this mode also pauses maintenance activities and mutes notifications to ensure consistent frame delivery," in addition to the different desktop layout. I'm sure the desktop is a big part of it, but the other parts are also a significant factor. IIRC, Game Bar's "Game mode" also does a similar thing.

Whether it's the desktop or background processes, the point is any modern computer is more than capable of running an OS and a game at the same time. Microsoft's solution of just running less stuff, instead of making the stuff run better, is short-sighted.

The troubleshooting brain in me doesn't like a vague grouping of apps. If we can do the exact things they're doing, then it'd be nice to see and verify what really needs to be done without completely sacrificing a chunk of the user experience.

TheinsanegamerNProtonDB says that gold and platinum combined, EG games that run without issues, stands at 69%. That's a nice number. Are you implying that 31% of the steam library is "very few" games?

Are you implying that only gold and platinum games "run?"

My entire library of over 200 games, only 2 don't run and both are kernel anticheat. And no I did not buy this with linux in mind.

Some need tweaking, sure, but they run.

TheinsanegamerNThis is the locked down walled garden way of looking at it. Why shouldnt you run Windows on the steam deck? There's no law it needs to only run linux. It's not a locked down system.

I guess you could if you found the drivers for the GPU and chipset.

TheinsanegamerNPople want Windows to release a stripped down OS with the bloat removed then complain when Windows releases a mode that strips down the bloat.

Some people are just going to complain no matter what you do.

The problem here isn't that Microsoft removed the bloat. The problem is that they removed everything. Have you looked at those screenshots?

TheinsanegamerNThis is entirely subjective. Up until last month, you had to leave your steam deck ON, screen ON, to download updates. Kinda big oopsie to make on a portable device, dont you think? Meanwhile, the windows portables had no issue downloading in the background not burning energy keeping the screen on for no reason.

No, this is also a problem on Windows handhelds. Its actually slightly worst as it stays in S1 state, which is necessary as some updates need to be uncompressed which requires CPU time.

Also Steam Deck has always had screen off while downloading. It just didn't go into any of the low power system states when downloading in the background. What the recent update does is give an interactive menu which allows you to check on current downloads with the power button along with a lower power system state. A hybrid of S1 and S2, if you will.

I’m by no means anti-Windows as a platform. There was a time when I couldn’t see myself using anything else. That slowly started to change with 10, and it was in full effect by 11. I’m not against progress as a whole, but MS’s current definition is not something I agree with. I’d rather NOT play a handful of titles and not use Windows to meet that end. I understand that many people won’t see it that way. I’m just glad I have a really good choice. I’d use Linux full-time if I could get one of my photo editors to work with WINE, but that has not been successful and the open source editors aren’t my cup of tea. Fortunately Mac is a great option for me too.

Hecate91Microsoft needs to do both remove bloat and make it better, IMO they should've given up on 11 and went back to Windows 7 as a base.

I don't see why you'd want to run Windows on a handheld, SteamOS is fine for most of the games I would want to play on a smaller screen without a keyboard and mouse.

Are you using Windows de-bloated? The point of the full screen experience is less ram usage on handhelds for most people who aren't tinkering around in regedit.

No regedit, I been setting my own and others system my for over 40 years ,back in my day ,controlling CPU process and RAM was paramount , even today with 32 threads and 64GB of RAM , old habits die hard , Administrator for a reason .

LastDudeALiveinstead of making it run better.

It's called “Windows Server 2025,” and with this version, for example, the WLAN feature is installed by default (but not activated!). Of course, it takes a little more than that. But if you know what, how, and where, you will enjoy it. Enthusiasm required.

Hecate91or constantly running applications.

For example, I have explicitly denied the execution of background apps in the GPO.

And because I'm such an attentive guy;
Set Split Threshold for Svchost in Windows 10

With a friendly smile,
Fred.

FR3D1It's called “Windows Server 2025,” and with this version, for example, the WLAN feature is installed by default (but not activated!). Of course, it takes a little more than that. But if you know what, how, and where, you will enjoy it. Enthusiasm required.

Like I said, it's crazy how Microsoft's solution for performance is to just stop things from running, instead of making them run better.

Hecate91RAM usage would drop a lot more than 9% if MS would just offer a "gaming" version of Windows without all of the bloatware,AI copilot garbage, telemetry, or constantly running applications.

this exists for a decade now, it was called Windows 10 LTSB, then LTSC and now it's called Windows 11 LTSC

thepathMaybe because 16GB ram in handheld is shared between iGPU and CPU.... maybe iGPU is eating some of the RAM ??!

It's still not that not big of an impact. Not enough to sway people..

TechLurkerTBF, Steam outright stated users can do whatever they want with their mini-computer. So if someone wants to turn it into a Win11 box then run XFSE in order to play some non-Linux compatible games, then so be it.

TheinsanegamerNThis is the locked down walled garden way of looking at it. Why shouldnt you run Windows on the steam deck? There's no law it needs to only run linux. It's not a locked down system.

Being designed with specific use case in mind =/= locking out all other uses.
The context here is the Machine's standard memory size, and that -as Darmok implied- it is pretty sufficient with the factory configured OS for the intended use.
Someone can also install Windows on a Raspberry PI. The OEM does not prohibit that, but it does not mean the experience would be optimal nor speak of the intended use case of the platform.

shuffy_losysBut also, I believe this doesn't really cause that much more memory consumption.

Me neither. Page table would grow, but we're probably talking about a couple of MBs per GB memory at worst (don't quote me on this tho...).

TBH the only modern mainstream OS that actually still have significant problem on RAM usage is ipadOS, everything else are mostly reasonable.

TheinsanegamerNBecause there are games that dont run on Linux that people want to run?

Games run on Linux. Except few worst written.
Cheap Anti-Cheat SW and some badly written Launcher do not

TheinsanegamerNI dont see why Linux users cannot comprehend this.

I dont see why Windows "user" cannot comprehend this.

TheinsanegamerNGamers are not ignorant blobs waiting for the glorious angel of Linus to grace them with wisdom. Most are not going to switch if some of their library doesnt work. If you play Battlefield, or CoD, or other competitive games, Linux is a no go.

They are "no go" on Linux because publishers decided they do not need the money from players using Linux.
And/Or they developers do not know how to solve cheating on server side and are able to make only cheap, poorly written, kernel level "solution" in vain hope it will work.

I dont see why Windows "user" cannot comprehend this.

TheinsanegamerNGamers are not ignorant blobs waiting for the glorious angel of Linus to grace them with wisdom. Most are not going to switch if some of their library doesnt work. If you play Battlefield, or CoD, or other competitive games, Linux is a no go.

Most gamers are clueless to having any other choice but Windows.
Linux not running the latest Battlefield or COD isn't the fault of Linux, EA outright refused allowing BF6 to work because they're delusional enough to think their kernel level anti-cheat is effective even though cheaters were in the beta. COD is just becoming a meme, especially with Black Ops 7 full of AI slop.

TheinsanegamerNAnd people all said the same thing about 10, and 8. History repeating itself. I certainly would not want to go back to an OS that got progressively slower to update the more updates existed, or couldnt boot on USB 3 ports, or had to have drivers installed by hand for all your different hardware.

People keep saying it because Windows continually gets worse, 8/8.1 was shit without mods, 10 was shit but was eventually decent when removing ads and telemetry, 11 isn't worth using at all. I'd rather go back to a lighter OS and install drivers myself than have to spend time modifying 11 to make it even somewhat tolerable.
SteamOS is competing and it's interesting to see Microsoft make half assed and seemingly rushed attempts at trying to remove bloat from their OS to get it to run decently on a handheld device.

TheinsanegamerNMultiplayer games. There's a very long list you can pursue at your leisure.

Multiplayer games with Windows only kernel level anti-cheats, some of those not running on SteamOS isn't a negative IMO, SteamOS/Linux runs tons of other games.

TheinsanegamerNThis is entirely subjective. Up until last month, you had to leave your steam deck ON, screen ON, to download updates. Kinda big oopsie to make on a portable device, dont you think? Meanwhile, the windows portables had no issue downloading in the background not burning energy keeping the screen on for no reason.

Until last month, at least Valve is making progress, not really a big deal though as you could otherwise wait until the Steam Deck needs to charge and update then.

TheinsanegamerNI have never asked why people want SteamOS on a handheld. Nor did I ever say I wanted a desktop gaming experience on a portable. You can easily go to the other Windows full screen experience threads and see me talking about how a more TV focused UI is a GOOD idea for portables.

Dont spread misinformation grasping at straws.

Sure, I'm the one grasping at straws when you're completely missing the point of a handheld device, insisting it needs to run Windows because everyone wants to play AAA games on one.
Steam has had Big Picture mode for years, Microsoft's TV UI sucks with too much empty space.

TheinsanegamerNPeople who dont know what SteamOS is are not buying Steam decks at all.

This contradicts your claim of gamers not being ignorant, anyone can google to figure out what SteamOS is, though most won't if they have a Steam library.

Bruno_Othis exists for a decade now, it was called Windows 10 LTSB, then LTSC and now it's called Windows 11 LTSC

Yes I realize LTSC is an option for enthusiasts, but I doubt people are going to put an enterprise server OS on a handheld when it lacks the MS store and the Xbox app.

I don't understand how an article about windows optimizations turned into hating on linux for not being absolutely perfect for everyone instantly, as windows isn't that either, but I get the feeling these little optimizations to windows are a result of windows having competition in spaces it didnt used to, and needing to actually care. If only :roll:

bitsandbootsI don't understand how an article about windows optimizations turned into hating on linux for not being absolutely perfect for everyone instantly, as windows isn't that either, but I get the feeling these little optimizations to windows are a result of windows having competition in spaces it didnt used to, and needing to actually care. If only :roll:

Because people are tired of the "linux crowd" constantly pushing it. We get it, Linux is good.

News flash: It's not what everyone wants, shut-up about it! This is an article about a Windows feature, not how great Linux is.

Hecate91Most gamers are clueless to having any other choice but Windows.
Linux not running the latest Battlefield or COD isn't the fault of Linux, EA outright refused allowing BF6 to work because they're delusional enough to think their kernel level anti-cheat is effective even though cheaters were in the beta. COD is just becoming a meme, especially with Black Ops 7 full of AI slop.

People keep saying it because Windows continually gets worse, 8/8.1 was shit without mods, 10 was shit but was eventually decent when removing ads and telemetry, 11 isn't worth using at all. I'd rather go back to a lighter OS and install drivers myself than have to spend time modifying 11 to make it even somewhat tolerable.
SteamOS is competing and it's interesting to see Microsoft make half assed and seemingly rushed attempts at trying to remove bloat from their OS to get it to run decently on a handheld device.

Multiplayer games with Windows only kernel level anti-cheats, some of those not running on SteamOS isn't a negative IMO, SteamOS/Linux runs tons of other games.

Until last month, at least Valve is making progress, not really a big deal though as you could otherwise wait until the Steam Deck needs to charge and update then.

Sure, I'm the one grasping at straws when you're completely missing the point of a handheld device, insisting it needs to run Windows because everyone wants to play AAA games on one.
Steam has had Big Picture mode for years, Microsoft's TV UI sucks with too much empty space.

This contradicts your claim of gamers not being ignorant, anyone can google to figure out what SteamOS is, though most won't if they have a Steam library.

Yes I realize LTSC is an option for enthusiasts, but I doubt people are going to put an enterprise server OS on a handheld when it lacks the MS store and the Xbox app.

you can easily install MS Store and Xbox app, quick powershell cmd

just saying that it is doable, for both gaming desktops (just install it) or for handhelds (Microsoft could release a re-branded LTSC version, called "Windows light" or whatever)

Laughing in Linux as I have Firefox open with a few tabs, dual monitors, a weather widget and a task manager open. Using a whopping 3 gigs. :roll:

germz1986Laughing in Linux as I have Firefox open with a few tabs, dual monitors, a weather widget and a task manager open. Using a whopping 3 gigs. :roll:

what resource monitor is that? Looks a lot like the one in W11.

Darmok N Jaladwhat resource monitor is that? Looks a lot like the one in W11.

Mission Center. Its quite nice

bitsandbootsI don't understand how an article about windows optimizations turned into hating on linux for not being absolutely perfect for everyone instantly, as windows isn't that either, but I get the feeling these little optimizations to windows are a result of windows having competition in spaces it didnt used to, and needing to actually care. If only :roll:

Just look at comments 1, 2, and 3. Very first comment was a (presumably) Windows user speculating about how well this "feature" will work on a Linux device.

We've reached the point in time where it's no longer exclusively Linux users bringing up this comparison. Increasingly, it's Windows users doing it.

I can see this being handy now, because a lot of new PCs only have 16 GB of RAM, due to the RAM supply chain crisis.