Quite understandable also it would be interesting to see what game "developers" do with upcoming games or we will still keep getting unoptimized unfinished memory and storage hogs.

Sad, but not surprising. I don’t know how MS and Sony could leave x86 at this point—it has to be far easier for devs to port across platforms, and even Sony has gotten into the mix of pushing some PS4/5 titles over to PC.

Darmok N JaladSad, but not surprising. I don’t know how MS and Sony could leave x86 at this point—it has to be far easier for devs to port across platforms, and even Sony has gotten into the mix of pushing some PS4/5 titles over to PC.

It doesn’t matter really if it’s x86 or not, though you are correct overall in your assessment. Whatever the architecture, they would need memory all the same, which is what is at a premium and in a short supply right now.

ChaitanyaQuite understandable also it would be interesting to see what game "developers" do with upcoming games or we will still keep getting unoptimized unfinished memory and storage hogs.

This whole AI-fueled memory crisis absolutely blows---but man do I hope this indirectly forces developers and companies to actually optimize their games! Similarly related to the very... "modest" specs of the Steam Machine (hopefully) also encouraging optimization away from the resource vampires modern games have become. Can't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops, but hopefully this can be a catalyst to improvements in other areas of the tech/gaming industry?

SiliconSeraphThis whole AI-fueled memory crisis absolutely blows---but man do I hope this indirectly forces developers and companies to actually optimize their games! Similarly related to the very... "modest" specs of the Steam Machine (hopefully) also encouraging optimization away from the resource vampires modern games have become. Can't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops, but hopefully this can be a catalyst to improvements in other areas of the tech/gaming industry?

I keep getting temp banned at another computer forum for speaking ill of AI... it being too "political". I joked around in the past that eventually, we'll just be watching AI play games instead of playing the games ourselves, but with this timeline, you never know.

I don't know if I believe this, mainly since if this is pushed out that far, that means there is going to be another generational change for the chipset, but, didn't AMD say in their earnings report that they already made the chips for Sony?

let's be honest here, no matter what the next playstation price is, lots of people will still buy it no matter what, and while there are others that won't pay $1K or whatever it will be, Sony would still make good profit on these units, so there really isn't a good reason to delay it for '28/'29 since nobody knows when the AI bubble will burst, so DRAM prices will still keep chugging up and up

That just means they're hoping memory prices will come back down by 2028-2029. They don't actually know when. Nobody knows.

SiliconSeraphThis whole AI-fueled memory crisis absolutely blows---but man do I hope this indirectly forces developers and companies to actually optimize their games! Similarly related to the very... "modest" specs of the Steam Machine (hopefully) also encouraging optimization away from the resource vampires modern games have become. Can't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops, but hopefully this can be a catalyst to improvements in other areas of the tech/gaming industry?

If games were already optimized for nintendo switch for all these years. Doubt that Valve will be left behind.

El_CapitanI keep getting temp banned at another computer forum for speaking ill of AI... it being too "political". I joked around in the past that eventually, we'll just be watching AI play games instead of playing the games ourselves, but with this timeline, you never know.

You're free to speak about AI here (for or against), but posts will be moderated if they become political.

for an entire year or even two before Sony could join the next-generation console wars.

This so-called “console war” has long been history. Xbox is dead and will remain so. Nintendo, even if bought like crazy, is playing in a league that is not worth mentioning.

With a friendly smile,
Fred.

SiliconSeraphThis whole AI-fueled memory crisis absolutely blows---but man do I hope this indirectly forces developers and companies to actually optimize their games! Similarly related to the very... "modest" specs of the Steam Machine (hopefully) also encouraging optimization away from the resource vampires modern games have become. Can't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops, but hopefully this can be a catalyst to improvements in other areas of the tech/gaming industry?

But why would it force them, when they know they can patch it later and they know most pc gamers wait on sales to happen.

Even if they ditch using UE 5, the game it still isn't optimize.

This can be a result of, most companies ditching quality testing and just do the bare minimum. and Pc is a nightmare in that regard.


Maybe just maybe quality devs has diminished despite they having more and easier tools at their disposal.

AthenaI don't know if I believe this, mainly since if this is pushed out that far, that means there is going to be another generational change for the chipset, but, didn't AMD say in their earnings report that they already made the chips for Sony?

let's be honest here, no matter what the next playstation price is, lots of people will still buy it no matter what, and while there are others that won't pay $1K or whatever it will be, Sony would still make good profit on these units, so there really isn't a good reason to delay it for '28/'29 since nobody knows when the AI bubble will burst, so DRAM prices will still keep chugging up and up

-Generational changes are determined by changes to software and new hardware to run it. If nothing is getting released, then there is no generational change.

Nvidia/AMD/Intel, everyone is chasing the AI/Datacenter dragon right now. Basically any and all meaningful development on consumer facing products is at best moving at a crawl and at worst completely paused/cancelled.

So we're going to have another 360/PS3 gen cycle that is abnormally long at 7-8 years instead of the usual 4-5.

Not the worst thing as others have mentioned it might force devs to work smarter with what they have, and give us a half gen of clever optimization that actually benefits next gen hardware when it releases.

Trying to avoid another ps3 issue of high hardware price.. if released in 2027, this system might cost 1k+ and hardly any non-enthusiast ps fan will get it.

Sure Sony can take a hit per console sold but you typically don't want that hit to be too big..

With dev time for most AAA games reaching close to 3yrs, and cross-gen supporting becoming norm, waiting on new hardware ain't so bad

Well this is a surprise... The death of technical progress so everyone can worship at the feet of machine learning.

To avoid a $3,000 PS6, Sony will need to push it back to 2030.

El_CapitanI keep getting temp banned at another computer forum for speaking ill of AI... it being too "political". I joked around in the past that eventually, we'll just be watching AI play games instead of playing the games ourselves, but with this timeline, you never know.

This literally exist.

www.spacemolt.com/

SiliconSeraphCan't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops

Athenanobody knows when the AI bubble will burst, so DRAM prices will still keep chugging up and up

For prices to improve, there's no need for "AI" to stop being a thing.
The market just needs to adjust until balance is restored. Production vs demand.

ir_cowTo avoid a $3,000 PS6, Sony will need to push it back to 2030.

I hope so! The faster turn over rate of consoles lifespan is one of the reasons I stopped playing on console. The PS5 still has life left in it. It hasnt been pushed to it limits yet at all. This said Im keeping my PS5 as a fancy streaming machine and watch physical media on. Sony doesnt get kudos points here because they are being forced to do this and not electing to do it cause its the smart thing to do. Sony is just too greedy lately.

nagemeFor prices to improve, there's no need for "AI" to stop being a thing.
The market just needs to adjust until balance is restored. Production vs demand.

AI doesn't need to stop being a thing for the AI bubble to pop, an AI bubble popping means the whole circular economy of AI companies passing money to each other would stop,
or at least companies like openAI which have yet to turn a profit would need to go bankrupt.

It seems like no one knows when RAM prices would go back to normal, but everyone seems to hope things will get better by 2028 or 2029.
I'm not so optimistic, because RAM manufacturers act like a cartel, and have been caught price fixing before. They'll probably fight tooth and nail to keep prices at crazily high inflated levels.

nagemeFor prices to improve, there's no need for "AI" to stop being a thing.
The market just needs to adjust until balance is restored. Production vs demand.

well, of course, I never said AI will stop being a thing, I said when the AI bubble bursts, as in, they want to build tons of data centers, but they can't for some pretty big reasons, mainly the electrical grid can't handle all they want, and lead times are 16-24 months for parts, so, all the companies are stockpiling everything they can now for the perceived future demand, which is what is causing all this mess in the first place, and that is where the bubble part comes in

everything is sitting in gigantic warehouses waiting for the data centers to be built

SiliconSeraphThis whole AI-fueled memory crisis absolutely blows---but man do I hope this indirectly forces developers and companies to actually optimize their games! Similarly related to the very... "modest" specs of the Steam Machine (hopefully) also encouraging optimization away from the resource vampires modern games have become. Can't wait till the AI bubble inevitably pops, but hopefully this can be a catalyst to improvements in other areas of the tech/gaming industry?

Won't happen, most devs are using off the shelf engines, very few take the extra step to optimize the engine further. Code optimization is not simple task especially when you use modern complexed and "heavy" engines like UE5, other than basic stuff you need to have skillful team of to have good results. And let face it those engines are designed that every novice will be able to create a working game quite fast - if the past you had to code most of the things by yourself, today a lot of work is automated, devs will prefer spending their time on other aspects.

I assumed due to covid (and early PS5 constraints) that 2028 was going to be more realistic of a target anyways.

2027 finalization and 2028 release made way more sense even before the memory supply issues.

OnasiIt doesn’t matter really if it’s x86 or not, though you are correct overall in your assessment. Whatever the architecture, they would need memory all the same, which is what is at a premium and in a short supply right now.

I doubt it's "short supply". It's just very "profitable" to chipmakers and "ram assembler companies" to tell that "there is a shortage". Same as GPU back then, lol.

mb194dcWell this is a surprise... The death of technical progress so everyone can worship at the feet of machine learning.

What technical progress. RT? Lmao That is just more of the same really, the precursor to AI, in all of its wasteful pointlessness because honestly is there a SINGLE game in existence you really need it for? At best, it will nuke your FPS for questionable lighting 'improvements' that can be achieved without it too, if given a bit more TLC. Before you know it, you're not playing games, you're pixel peeping your half dozen DLSS options to find the 'best quality' vaseline to smear over your otherwise pretty weak gaming experience. Fuck that.

Computer graphics are done. We're just sidegrading at this point; every pixel can get its own pretty color regardless. Its time devs focus heavily on gameplay, interactivity, physics again, so we don't have to look at the next UE5 shader shit where interaction is just about as much as 'hold E' and invisible hand pushed heavy button on screen.

Like, honestly, I was happy to invest in a 7 year old secondary system to play games on, because I know it'll just run anything I want to run on it, and everything that doesn't run on it, is also completely skippable. Even on my more recent system I find myself playing mostly pre-2022 content. I'm having a fantastic time revisiting WoW Classic on private servers now. Its just great fun.

Graphics are completely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things, and honestly I don't even get why we would be hyped about any hardware release anymore, until we start seeing a far higher quality delivery of content to play on it. Commerce has lost me on that, entirely. If they want my hard earned money, the offer must be a lot better, because it just cannot compete on a gameplay level with older content, that is not only cheaper by itself (budget bin, or free), but also a finished product versus a new one full of postponed development and trying desperately to make some concept unique even though it has no merit whatsoever, just to catch some attention in the sea of slop. All of this detracts from the core of what games must be: a cohesive thing, with its own soul, and gameplay that just works.

The whole deal just got pretty bad I think. New games are just unattractive products at this point, and when corporate then even has the gall to increase the base price because 'development costs' you know the industry has commercialized itself into a hole. This is why indies rock. They don't have that burden, they just set out to create a thing with a clearly defined, achievable scope and strong core concept, and deliver it to sell the game, and graphics are just the means to that end.

Vayra86What technical progress. RT? Lmao That is just more of the same really, the precursor to AI, in all of its wasteful pointlessness because honestly is there a SINGLE game in existence you really need it for? At best, it will nuke your FPS for questionable lighting 'improvements' that can be achieved without it too, if given a bit more TLC. Before you know it, you're not playing games, you're pixel peeping your half dozen DLSS options to find the 'best quality' vaseline to smear over your otherwise pretty weak gaming experience. Fuck that.

Computer graphics are done. We're just sidegrading at this point; every pixel can get its own pretty color regardless. Its time devs focus heavily on gameplay, interactivity, physics again, so we don't have to look at the next UE5 shader shit where interaction is just about as much as 'hold E' and invisible hand pushed heavy button on screen.

Like, honestly, I was happy to invest in a 7 year old secondary system to play games on, because I know it'll just run anything I want to run on it, and everything that doesn't run on it, is also completely skippable. Even on my more recent system I find myself playing mostly pre-2022 content. I'm having a fantastic time revisiting WoW Classic on private servers now. Its just great fun.

Graphics are completely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things, and honestly I don't even get why we would be hyped about any hardware release anymore, until we start seeing a far higher quality delivery of content to play on it. Commerce has lost me on that, entirely. If they want my hard earned money, the offer must be a lot better, because it just cannot compete on a gameplay level with older content, that is not only cheaper by itself (budget bin, or free), but also a finished product versus a new one full of postponed development and trying desperately to make some concept unique even though it has no merit whatsoever, just to catch some attention in the sea of slop. All of this detracts from the core of what games must be: a cohesive thing, with its own soul, and gameplay that just works.

The whole deal just got pretty bad I think. New games are just unattractive products at this point, and when corporate then even has the gall to increase the base price because 'development costs' you know the industry has commercialized itself into a hole. This is why indies rock. They don't have that burden, they just set out to create a thing with a clearly defined, achievable scope and strong core concept, and deliver it to sell the game, and graphics are just the means to that end.

Agree with all of that. I can just remember the era where we got cheaper and better technology every year along with decent game releases that weren't just aimed at monetisation of the in game experience. Along with more and more draconian anti cheat measure.

As you say, it died around 2020, since then it's higher prices and enshittification all the way.