OnasiI like how I got like a dozen messages in this thread about my tongue in cheek post when I already noted that I don’t really accept the “open platform” and “multiple storefronts” and “cheaper games” copes because THATS WHAT WE PC GAMERS HAVE TOLD THE CONSOLE PLEBS FOR A DECADE+ ALREADY. Like, yes, I am aware of potential benefits of moving to PC. I AM a PC user. What I found funny is that, apparently, for a lot of console players this, the “muh physical games are going away” drama, served as a moment of dissatisfaction. Because, realistically, consoles stopped having any benefits as a gaming ecosystem over PC (exclusives aside, natch) the moment we transitioned to “it’s just a mid custom PC” back in 2013. Since then, the console players have, quite honestly, only themselves to blame for all this - you act like an abused wife defending the husband, well, you get treated accordingly.

They're not copes, they're reality......

What has changed is that consoles offered something PCs didnt have: physical media. The ability to resell or share games in a way PC cannot do, alongside being able to play physical media. That option has now been removed, so now there is nothing the console offers that PC cannot also offer.

Trading part will definitely be eliminated. But also the argument that Consoles now, and have been for quite sometime are just cheaper, more restricted PCs is valid.

If the majority have already accepted streaming altered movies, and paying extra to be ad-free and to also pay extra to stream in 4K, then what Sony is doing is to be expected.

For a very long time now I have never much liked Sony (when their products stopped being S-tier), much less console gaming. But I hope this well and truly bites them in the arse. The only thing that kept a chunk of gamers on thier platform was the ability to sell the game on after that have finished playing it.

I hated when Valve pulled this stunt with the release of the orange box (I still have the box/media), but so far they have been pro-customer. But with their recent statement that I only purchased the license of the game, thats fine. If ever they remove one of my games will be the day I p1rat3 a copy of said game or if its less than £5, buy it on gog.

As the saying goes if buying isn't owning then p1rac3y isn't steeling. I have actively where practically possible, bluntly ignored all law's that have been created in the last 10-20 years that are grotesquely biased towards the avaricious corpo meat-sacks. But there is hope, right to repair is gaining traction, one of the biggest arse-holes in this sphere 'John Deer' has just acquiesced (after they were FORCED) and will now 'allow' farmers and independent repair shops access to parts and tech data and will be monitor for the next 10yrs to confirm compliance or face punishment.

lexluthermiesterThe difference is that on PC when you pay for a game, it generally isn't ever taken away from you. There are a few exceptions, but that is the way it works. GOG buyers? As long as you download the installer directly, the game can NEVER be taken away from you, even IF GOG were to ever shut down.

This hinges on what you think about Steam. As it stands they're ok, but that can change.

Hecate91It isn't only about the disc itself, Sony decided to kill off discs right after deleting movies that people paid for. Sony has shown they can take away content whenever they want without any notification.

Now, lets keep it real here; THAT was the cue for people to cut ties. Fighting over physical media now feels like too little, WAY too late, and reminds me of Bethesda fans that keep patching Skyrim while telling Bethesda to do it for them. Yeah, that'll totally work out!

OnasiI like how I got like a dozen messages in this thread about my tongue in cheek post when I already noted that I don’t really accept the “open platform” and “multiple storefronts” and “cheaper games” copes because THATS WHAT WE PC GAMERS HAVE TOLD THE CONSOLE PLEBS FOR A DECADE+ ALREADY. Like, yes, I am aware of potential benefits of moving to PC. I AM a PC user. What I found funny is that, apparently, for a lot of console players this, the “muh physical games are going away” drama, served as a moment of dissatisfaction. Because, realistically, consoles stopped having any benefits as a gaming ecosystem over PC (exclusives aside, natch) the moment we transitioned to “it’s just a mid custom PC” back in 2013. Since then, the console players have, quite honestly, only themselves to blame for all this - you act like an abused wife defending the husband, well, you get treated accordingly.

This, 100%.

The console peasantry stuck with their old world for too long and the pitchforks are beyond pointless now. Solutions exist! Use them.

Kinsa83Agreed, however people have always been weird where they draw their lines. Not just in tech and games. Just life in general. Most people dont actually think with logic. They think with their own personal discomfort and even then most arent willing to sit with the discomfort long enough to figure out the reason(s) behind it. They just react on inpulse. Of the people surveyed Id say less than a quarter of them will actually follow through.

Yup... great example is onedrive and standard Windows Home installations. EVERYONE gets burned by that one way or another. And then proceed to pay for another license... local storage is cheaper and hassle free. Its mind blowing stupidity.

Craptacularthere is a history with the only storefront for a console going offline, on top of that there is a history from Sony in other forms of media, such as movies, where someone buys the digital product and then Sony deletes your purchase forever.

of course they do this, after they have your money, you, who is using their services playing games they can no longer charge you for, are just a burden for them, and they want to get rid of you (so they delete your account and all your purchases on it after some months of inactivity) i believe they say after 30 months in their fine print.

Vayra86Now, lets keep it real here; THAT was the cue for people to cut ties.

I guess that was the final reason for people to cut ties or at least get upset enough to consider not buying another console.
Consoles had the advantage of being able to resell or share games, but that's no longer an option so consoles lose any advantage compared to a PC.

Vayra86Yup... great example is onedrive and standard Windows Home installations. EVERYONE gets burned by that one way or another.

Onedrive and standard Windows installs are a matter of convenience, onedrive is cheaper than buying storage especially with AI companies hoarding all of the memory. Windows home is the most common version since it comes with a majority of OEM and pre-built PC's. But someone could download a pro install then debloat it and block Microslop from breaking things, or look for used HDD's to build a home NAS, but for most it's easier not to. Consoles are the same conveinience, or laziness depending on how you see it, no effort needed to build a PC and go through the hassle of setting it up for the average consumer.

FrickThis hinges on what you think about Steam. As it stands they're ok, but that can change.

Good point.

Hecate91Onedrive and standard Windows installs are a matter of convenience, onedrive is cheaper than buying storage especially with AI companies hoarding all of the memory. Windows home is the most common version since it comes with a majority of OEM and pre-built PC's. But someone could download a pro install then debloat it and block Microslop from breaking things, or look for used HDD's to build a home NAS, but for most it's easier not to. Consoles are the same conveinience, or laziness depending on how you see it, no effort needed to build a PC and go through the hassle of setting it up for the average consumer.

Exactly. But really, pluggin another HDD in your system, even today, is most definitely cheaper, and always was cheaper, than paying a sub for Onedrive capacity.
In the exact same way, just gaming on a PC and being price conscious about the games you buy, while not the most convenient or 'easiest' thing to do, is and was always cheaper than playing on a console. And you'd still be playing the same games, too, or 90% of them.

Effectively nothing has changed, its just that now reality starts hitting people as their last silly excuse is wiped away.
Reselling games alone cannot nor could have ever been the real reason people wanted to keep their pretty consoles under the TV. The real reason was 'this is what they always did' - convenience. The fear of having to make an effort to set up a PC for gaming, too. Its all emotion. Understandable, but proven stupidity. We all do this in some way, in or outside of entertainment and spending. We're all lazy. I get it. And every single count of it is still a wasteful, stupid practice that we pay more for, and get less for in return.

Just for shits and giggles, I checked;

99 EUR a year gets you 1 TB of storage :kookoo:
Oh yeah and a bunch of apps you can get for free anywhere else


Here's the price / TB of current day SSDs. Never mind HDD! Those are much cheaper, you can get 1,5-2TB per 99,- on those. :)
Memory crisis should have no effect here, it was always a shit deal to get services instead of local storage. NAS is next level, most people don't need that. After one year, you can buy another SSD for that subscription money and thus another TB of storage or redundancy.

CraptacularWith any console, the digital storefront is the only storefront for that respective console, which means there is only one way to get the game which means no competition on price, plus there is a history with the only storefront for a console going offline, on top of that there is a history from Sony in other forms of media, such as movies, where someone buys the digital product and then Sony deletes your purchase forever.

Speaking of that the ps3 store will be going away soon . Supposedly you will still be able to download your prior purchased games but eventually there will be a day when that ends too.

Vayra86Reselling games alone cannot nor could have ever been the real reason people wanted to keep their pretty consoles under the TV. The real reason was 'this is what they always did' - convenience.

Well not the only reason. The collection mentality (like with Tapes, CD's, DVD, etc...) that had been built up for years probably played a big role. Reselling games is an advantage one had with physical media. The financially constrained or those maximizing the effectiveness of their entertainment spending greatly benefited from being able to resell their games.

I think what consumers would want to see is the ability to transfer digital licenses. The physical media really doesn't matter in this regard except previously the entertainment industry didn't have a way to control this with physical media beyond copy protection schemes and DMCA. Essentially this is what is lost when physical media completely dies. Unless laws are written to require the ability to transfer digital license this entertainment industry will not allow this to happen and the door will be closed going forward. What consumers are losing isn't so much physical media as it is the inherent ability to transfer ownership of digital content as they once had with physical media.

A Computer GuySpeaking of that the ps3 store will be going away soon . Supposedly you will still be able to download your prior purchased games but eventually there will be a day when that ends too.


Well not the only reason. The collection mentality (like with Tapes, CD's, DVD, etc...) that had been built up for years probably played a big role. Reselling games is an advantage one had with physical media. The financially constrained or those maximizing the effectiveness of their entertainment spending greatly benefited from being able to resell their games.

I think what consumers would want to see is the ability to transfer digital licenses. The physical media really doesn't matter in this regard except previously the entertainment industry didn't have a way to control this with physical media beyond copy protection schemes and DMCA. Essentially this is what is lost when physical media completely dies. Unless laws are written to require the ability to transfer digital license this entertainment industry will not allow this to happen and the door will be closed going forward.

Yeah. License is not a strange thing to make transferable.

I would personally never buy a PS6 if it was digital only !

I have ZERO trust in Sony about heir licenses handling. Every time a company do a licenses agreement they can choose between infinite (or something close enough) duration, a fixed duration for sales but not for ownership (it doesn't affect your library) and a fixed duration for both sales and ownership.

Microsoft (xbox) take old Forza out of sales but not library due to car licensing, EA take old Fifa out of sales, but not library due to player licensing, Take2 do the same with NBA 2K, all those 3 companies are bottom barrel ####bag but they still dont remove your game from library, yes some online portion get cut (specially important for NBA 2K).

Sony could have choosen a similar licensing for their movies catalogue, but no, due to greed and zero respect for their consumers, they choose the cheap one that affect ownership. If you trust them don't cry when your game dissappear...

Hecate91I guess that was the final reason for people to cut ties or at least get upset enough to consider not buying another console.
Consoles had the advantage of being able to resell or share games, but that's no longer an option so consoles lose any advantage compared to a PC.

Hecate91Onedrive and standard Windows installs are a matter of convenience, onedrive is cheaper than buying storage especially with AI companies hoarding all of the memory. Windows home is the most common version since it comes with a majority of OEM and pre-built PC's. But someone could download a pro install then debloat it and block Microslop from breaking things, or look for used HDD's to build a home NAS, but for most it's easier not to. Consoles are the same convenience, or laziness depending on how you see it, no effort needed to build a PC and go through the hassle of setting it up for the average consumer.

Outside of reselling and transfer of ownership and physical media some distinct advantages of Consoles for the consumer were

• Lack of hardware variance
  • Made it cost effective for the developer to optimize for games for the console
  • Less problems for the developer to contend with (compatibility issues)
• Games were expected to be ready to play out of the box on day 1, and the industry had to shape their development process and discipline around this
• Allowed for consistent experiences for all users
• Non-volatile OS (no patch Tuesday issues)
• Non-volatile DRM (on PC many DRM solutions and some might be quite dubious)
• Other optimized experiences (updates, patches, shutdown, sleep, game termination, etc...)
• Bonus features: I just need a working media player (DVD, BluRay, etc...)

This translated into overall good gaming experiences for the end user although there are many examples of games that were released that were absolute turds even going back to the Atari days.
Once consoles had download capabilities for full games I think the industry discipline for playable on day one diminished.

The real issue isn't that you no longer get a disc, the real issue is the DRM and locked platforms that prevent you from actually owning the games whether you have a disc or not, an issue which PCs don't solve either, it's just that you can at least pirate games on a PC.

OnasiProtesting PS dropping physical media by going to PC, a platform that dropped physical media more than a decade ago, is… a choice, I suppose?

No you got it wrong it's the other way around:
Why stay on console when they are about to drop physical media and become similar to Steam anyways ?

Add to that, continuous price increases, subscription increases, a completely failed push towards GaaS (except Helldivers 2...but it's on PC and ironically it's the only successful GaaS not developed by a first party studio), lack of first parties etc.

The thing about Steam's 'DRM' is that... I have a laptop downstairs that hasn't connected to the internet in... oh five or six years. Steam is in Offline mode. I can play every game that's installed on that laptop without issue and without connecting it to the internet (... Except Dota... I think dota's installed on it).

THAT is a functional offline mode. Most storefronts (such as EA's) don't work like that. I have a couple EA games on my desktop that I haven't launched in years because I have no desire to connect their storefront back to the internet and download its updates. It's supposed to be in offline mode.

We can complain about the all-digital world of Steam, but comparing Steam to other all-digital services should be done fairly, and accounting for things that Valve does right.

OnasiProtesting PS dropping physical media by going to PC, a platform that dropped physical media more than a decade ago, is… a choice, I suppose?

PC has many ways of avoiding the issues of no physical copy, and thus users can get the best of both worlds. With a game console, you are limited to just their store front and their rules. Their terms of service allows what Sony did to people's digital movie collection, to also be done to their game collection.

On the PC, there is far less of a risk of a storefront taking someone's games away, and if they do, there are workarounds.

Beyond that, there are storefronts that offer DRM-free titles which are the most flexible types of game releases. For example, my automated backup to my NAS, also copies my GOG game installs. This is because just the install folder is enough to launch the game. If I uninstall a game and feel like revisiting an old game, even if just to spend 5 minutes in it, I don't need to reinstall it or even copy it to my PC. I can just go into the backup share on the NAS and launch it directly from there, and it just works.

While it is running, I can then have another PC on the LAN access the same share and launch the same game again and it just works.

I can copy the game to a flash drive and launch it from there. his is why they are the first place I check for any game. I know that regardless of what happens, those games will work. 1000 years from now, if any of the storage is readable and an archeologist finds it as well as some working hardware from this era, they could run any game in my GOG game library.

Even with a disk, the DRM at the disk level, means that long term archiving of a PS5 game will not be as easy. You cannot apply the basic backup principles to a PS5 game, thus if you have a physical copy and you get disk rot, then your game is gone.
If Sony decides that you no longer get to keep your purchased games, then your games are gone (including many of their disk based games since Sony also likes not putting the entire game on a Bluray even though it can fit, instead to have more control, they like to keep part on their servers and make it into a mandatory day one patch.

In some cases, some console makers will add arbitrary cloud reliance to games that are fully contained on the disk. For example, on the 2013 Xbox One, games like Ryse: Son of Rome would require you to be signed into xbox live (a free account is fine) before you could play the single player game. This means that if microsoft decides to kill off all cloud services for the Xbox One, then those games eventually stop working.

Enclosed;
Sony Now Faces A Huge Lawsuit For Over $400 Million As Fans Are Left Outraged

Regards,
Fred.

sephiroth117Why stay on console when they are about to drop physical media and become similar to Steam anyways ?

Despite all of Sony's negatives it's hard to argue that they don't have one of the collectively best libraries among consoles. Many of the Playstation exclusives were one of the strong reasons to buy the console in the first place being Disc or DLC. Them trying to milking it to the max by taking that back in house again behind their storefront with all digital content isn't going to workout too well at todays prices for consoles and more typical multi-platform releases. I could be wrong.

Sony is going to get what they deserve.

Can't wait.

FR3D1Enclosed;
Sony Now Faces A Huge Lawsuit For Over $400 Million As Fans Are Left Outraged

Regards,
Fred.

Is that huge? Sony's games division has $31b in yearly revenue; 10% of which is profit.
Go into 10 figures and we're talking.

On PC you can game only in midle off day when electricity cost is low. In the evenkng beeter to shut down everyithing.

ReadlightOn PC you can game only in midle off day when electricity cost is low. In the evenkng beeter to shut down everyithing.

That has to be the weirdest complaint against PC gaming I've ever seen. I have several dozen indie games that don't draw much power and can be played on toasters. Just because a PC can draw a lot of power doesn't mean it will.

ReadlightOn PC you can game only in midle off day when electricity cost is low. In the evenkng beeter to shut down everyithing.

Steam Deck draws 15W :)

ReadlightOn PC you can game only in midle off day when electricity cost is low. In the evenkng beeter to shut down everyithing.

Not everyone has that issue. Here where I live power prices are regulated, so we don't get those variations.