kazuvikingAh the AMD Unboxed poll. Ask it under any non amd shill tech channel and the results will be wildly different.

Why don't you ask for a poll here on TPU then? Or who should be polled? LinusTechTips' yelling clowns?

Ever heard of ESG or programmed obsolescence? With ever increasing prices of literally every tech product, not having to throw your MB in the dumpster and buy a new one every time you want to upgrade is obviously the way to go. Intel itself has realized that. No wonder it sells Arrow Lake/Plus cpus at a loss, to make up for platform cost, to even be considered for a new build.

Now imagine being an early investor in LGA-1851, getting less gaming performance than the predecessor, and being left out of the Binary Optimization Tool released alongside the refreshed cpus.

Nova Lake has to be competitive, or Intel will keep losing market share on all fronts.

DAPUNISHERZen 6 will come out 5 years after AM5 launched. The 5800X3D released almost 6 years after AM4 launched. A CPU with such long lasting appeal, it presently outsells everything Intel and all but a couple AM5 SKUs in the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Mindfactory.

Let's be honest, the only reason the 5800x3d is on the board right now is because of the current industry situation. Another fair point, Amazon specific stock sold out within a couple days of the 270k plus for the Intel Gamer Days sale as it was $255 (US market).

Okay,
time for the classic stupid question:
is changing both the socket and chipset actually a critical move this time around?

Especially now that they're trying to win back the market after losing so much ground to AMD?
The important thing should be if this time they say: we are gonna to support this socket for 5 years.
Correct ?

kazuvikingEnjoy the same chipset reused and resold for more money.

Completely irrelevant. Intel despite quickly changing it's sockets did not bring any groundbreaking advances with new chipsets.
On any platform - what would a new chipset offer that the old one did not? The only meaningful thing that could be upgraded would be the the number of lanes it offers with the latest PCIe standard. But how many people are actually starved for lanes on a mainstream board?

In order to be lane starved you'd have to run at least one x16 GPU, 3x NVMe and populate every USB port.
PCIe 5.0 is even less necessary as the impact on GPU's is within margin of error compared to 4.0 and for SSD's it matters only you're doing daily sequential transfers between two 5.0 drives in your system.

kazuvikingDid we forget that AM5 was originally only supported till 2027 and only after the massive community outcry it was changed to 2029?

Where was it written, that AM5 would be "only" supported until 2027?
AMD never committed to a firm end date when AM5 was announced.
There was no community outcry about AM5's support because there was and is no need.

kondaminwill it have 3 channel memory to feed those 56 or what was it cores?

Can we please drop this nonsense?

Zen 2 doubled the number of cores with the same boards and memory. Were those extra cores starved? No they weren't.
Zen 6 doubling cores will also not require more channels.

Besides the officially supported memory speeds will be in the 7000-8000 range so bandwidth will increase anyway.

kazuvikingAh the AMD Unboxed poll. Ask it under any non amd shill tech channel and the results will be wildly different.

So over 37'000 votes is just a statistical error?
Then maybe you'd like to share equal or greater number poll where more than 50% of people answered that platform longevity is not important at all?

This is especially ironic after AM4's success. AM5 is well on it's way to repeat this success and yet people like you are arguing that it's irrelevant 10 years after AM4's success.

Tomorrow.

Can we please drop this nonsense?

Zen 2 doubled the number of cores with the same boards and memory. Were those extra cores starved? No they weren't.
Zen 6 doubling cores will also not require more channels.

Besides the officially supported memory speeds will be in the 7000-8000 range so bandwidth will increase anyway.

this is for nova lake, which comes with an npu and a much bigger igpu than zen 2 that came with neither.

56 cores is threadripper territory which comes with 4 channels

kondaminthis is for nova lake, which comes with an npu and a much bigger igpu than zen 2 that came with neither.

56 cores is threadripper territory which comes with 4 channels

Even less of an issue for Nova Lake as it will get a new socket, boards and higher default memory speed support anyway.
No the 56 cores wont be starved with two memory channels. I very much doubt most consumer mainstream programs even scale beyond ~20 cores.

Threadripper is a different beast. Four channels there exist for different reasons and 56 NVL-S cores are not directly comparable to 56 TR cores.

kondamin56 cores

Tomorrow56 NVL-S cores

52.
16P + 32E + 4LPE

TomorrowEven less of an issue for Nova Lake as it will get a new socket, boards and higher default memory speed support anyway.
No the 56 cores wont be starved with two memory channels. I very much doubt most consumer mainstream programs even scale beyond ~20 cores.

Threadripper is a different beast. Four channels there exist for different reasons and 56 NVL-S cores are not directly comparable to 56 TR cores.

This thread is about nova lake, and those 32 e cores will very much out perform earlier iterations or zen,

I'm fine giving you that for most users 3 channels will be over kill, for a lot of users, the top end SKU will most certainly benefit from more memory bandwidth

kondaminI'm fine giving you that for most users 3 channels will be over kill, for a lot of users,

Quad channel would be optimal for ddr5. Two sticks would already run in quad channel. The 56 core should come with octa channel to fully utilize 4 sticks.

kazuvikingQuad channel would be optimal for ddr5. Two sticks would already run in quad channel. The 56 core should come with octa channel to fully utilize 4 sticks.

That’s just x4 32bit, a dram channel has been 64 bit for ages until ddr5 changed that for some reason

kondaminthe top end SKU will most certainly benefit from more memory bandwidth

Which is achieved with higher default supported memory speeds. Not by adding more channels and more expensive sticks...

kazuvikingAh the AMD Unboxed poll. Ask it under any non amd shill tech channel and the results will be wildly different.

Hardware Unboxed are clearly AMD shills and this is obviously not a case of tunnel vision?

Steve is more neutral. Tim was probably part of the "Forgive us Nvidia" deal to not get on a black list after they said no to Nvidia and also had the nerve to publish that No. In graphics cards they are more like the "Let's justify why to pay more for an Nvidia card and why to avoid Radeon cards" channel. In the last video, Tim had to sugarcoat his obligation to accept that an RTX 5060 Ti 16GB cannot be a recommended option when it costs as much as an RX 9070 XT so much that they should have put a diabetes warning at the beginning of the video.

JMO of course

kazuvikingAh the AMD Unboxed poll. Ask it under any non amd shill tech channel and the results will be wildly different.

You would say that, you are obviously in some way anti AMD, so imo whatever you say is biased and useless.

FoulOnWhiteyou are obviously in some way anti AMD, so imo whatever you say is biased and useless.

Thats why im gonna buy an 9070xt.

kazuvikingThats why im gonna buy an 9070xt.

Maybe stop coming across so anti AMD then

@Red Hood

You could have kept going, they have had AMD on blast for quite a while. But I think your point is crystal clear. I don't usually debate the shoot the messenger fallacy. It is a weak argument device. One need look no further than their comments section under the videos, to observe they get plenty of engagement from supporters of teams green and blue.

37K votes is many times what is necessary to get accurate results. The question was posed as to how many DIYers would, or want to, upgrade the CPU only. I provided data that the vast majority consider it of either some importance, or great importance, to their purchasing decision. Users that care about multi threaded performance, PCIe lanes, and memory channels, are a tiny sliver of that tiny slice. Gaming drives retail sales. One look there tells the same story of the importance of longevity.

Info we have suggests 1954 addresses both of team blue's biggest issues in retail/DIY. Platfrom longevity and gaming performance.

MTS-CLet's be honest, the only reason the 5800x3d is on the board right now is because of the current industry situation.

If it is due to DRAM pricing, why is 1700, having DDR4 support, not benefiting the same way, in any of the western markets I noted? Yesterday there was not a single Intel CPU in the top 10 on Amazon in any of those countries. Only 1 today, on one country's rankings, and one on Newegg U.S. and that one is arrow lake; DDR5 only. When they do crack the top 10 Tom's considers it newsworthy www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/two-intel-chips-break-amazons-top-10-cpus-for-the-first-time-in-months-core-ultra-7-270k-and-core-i7-14700k-finally-challenge-amd-desktop-dominance

BTW, 4 of the top 5 selling boards on Amazon here, are B550, a cut down chipset from the last decade. The answer to the question I posed is platform longevity. It plays the long game. Even after the socket is technically long dead, you can sell CPUs to the owners. AMD said their adrenalin software telemetry showed a significant percentage of AM4 owners using older zen CPUs. Hence they were trying to fire up production of some SKUs. Here we are, with a decade old socket outselling everything Intel and most of AM5. Here's how long the game is; The lowly Ryzen 5500 has been a top seller the last year. The 5800X3D is going to look mighty tempting in a couple years, after price drops. DRAM and NAND are expected to still be high demand, so AMD will get them for yet another CPU sale.

AM5 will most likely enjoy the same prolonged sales success. 1954 hopping on the bandwagon would ensure its future success too. I'd like to see the top 10 an even split, with the top spot being back and forth. That's our best chance at a price war developing. Instead of 1 charging a premium and the other competing on bang for buck. Though my gut says both overcharge us as retail is almost inconsequential now.

MTS-CAnother fair point, Amazon specific stock sold out within a couple days of the 270k plus for the Intel Gamer Days sale as it was $255 (US market).

Why did they have so little stock on hand? It never cracked the top spots i.e. not enough units sold. Answer that and you will get to the root of Intel's retail woes.

ThomasKNova Lake has to be competitive, or Intel will keep losing market share on all fronts.

It can't get much worse in retail. They have to fire sale and or bundle games, to move units. They would rather sell those wafers to enterprise for much more money anyway. It's why retail 1700 prices went up, Intel 7 is in high demand in more profitable segments.

To conclude my thoughts and musings: Excited more for Nova's launch than any CPU since OG Zen.

kazuvikingNo nvme, 1 or two usb 3.0 ports, horrible memory support with basically no connectivity if you bought into am4 early.

There are a lot of things you could have criticized AM4/X370 for and you chose three things that are all wrong.

Meet Golemit, the Carrizo+ X370 reference platform from 2016 prior to Zen's launch featuring NVMe Gen3x4, 4x USB 3.0, 2x USB 3.1 Gen1/2, and 1x USB 3.1 Type-C Gen1/2. DRAM support is down to the mix of IMC and AGESA updates and was a solved issue early on in AM4's life cycle.

Even if you upgrade once in 8 years, having a socket with a long life span is beneficial.
There is a much better chance you will be able to sell the parts for a higher price if the pool of compatibility is several times larger. And if not sell it for the money, you at least will keep the resource waste / pollution down and provide a viable alternative to others in case a new RAMpocalypse type event comes along.

i went to AM5 and passed my LGA1700 board and 12700k to my mate for a cracking upgrade for him.

DAPUNISHERIf it is due to DRAM pricing, why is 1700, having DDR4 support, not benefiting the same way, in any of the western markets I noted? Yesterday there was not a single Intel CPU in the top 10 on Amazon in any of those countries. Only 1 today, on one country's rankings, and one on Newegg U.S. and that one is arrow lake; DDR5 only. When they do crack the top 10 Tom's considers it newsworthy www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...4700k-finally-challenge-amd-desktop-dominance

1st point, hivemind mentality. x3d good Intel bad. That one's obvious. Why buy a $255 dollar sucky Intel when x3d good + DDR5 pricing when somebody might have AM4 already....look at prior arguments on that in this very thread alone. Why buy a "power hungry" intel when I already have AM4 or can get an AM5 CPU (if they're willing to spend DDR5 pricing). Why go Intel when I already have AM4 or AM5 since before the sale....
2nd point, because as of 2 days ago they were out of stock on Amazon seller specifically and once that went away the 3rd parties put the chip back over 300. Top 10 is updated hourly, they were gone as of yesterday and on the 28th when I looked for myself.
On the 24th the 270k Plus on sale hit #6 based on their velocity algo which is also demonstrated on the very link you shared. More than likely by people like me smart enough to grab DDR5 in 2025 and need something for more than just gaming. I'd be willing to bet not even necessary purchases, just a good deal. I was going to get one for the sake of it being $255, I don't need it at all.

DAPUNISHERWhy did they have so little stock on hand? It never cracked the top spots i.e. not enough units sold. Answer that and you will get to the root of Intel's retail woes.

The above point and market logistics. Why produce lots of a chip that won't sell because the tourists want AMD regardless of any other metric? Their new chips are coming, RL is covering the DDR4 end, get rid of excess stock while you can. Plus, it did. You even linked it like I said before. Many outlets reported on it. Intel Gamer Days is going until September 13th, I'd be willing to bet if Amazon itself does get more broad stock it'll hit top 10 again.

FoulOnWhitei went to AM5 and passed my LGA1700 board and 12700k to my mate for a cracking upgrade for him.

I have a 12600kf and I am hopeful raptor lake next is real, and will have a sku worth replacing it with. I suspect it will be more of the rebadged garbage both vendors have been feeding us. Paul got it right when he called it warmed up leftovers.

MTS-C1st point, hivemind mentality. x3d good Intel bad. That one's obvious. Why buy a $255 dollar sucky Intel when x3d good + DDR5 pricing when somebody might have AM4 already....look at prior arguments on that in this very thread alone. Why buy a "power hungry" intel when I already have AM4 or can get an AM5 CPU (if they're willing to spend DDR5 pricing). Why go Intel when I already have AM4 or AM5 since before the sale....
2nd point, because as of 2 days ago they were out of stock on Amazon seller specifically and once that went away the 3rd parties put the chip back over 300. Top 10 is updated hourly, they were gone as of yesterday and on the 28th when I looked for myself.
On the 24th the 270k Plus on sale hit #6 based on their velocity algo which is also demonstrated on the very link you shared. More than likely by people like me smart enough to grab DDR5 in 2025 and need something for more than just gaming. I'd be willing to bet not even necessary purchases, just a good deal. I was going to get one for the sake of it being $255, I don't need it at all.

The above point and market logistics. Why produce lots of a chip that won't sell because the tourists want AMD regardless of any other metric? Their new chips are coming, RL is covering the DDR4 end, get rid of excess stock while you can. Plus, it did. You even linked it like I said before. Many outlets reported on it. Intel Gamer Days is going until September 13th, I'd be willing to bet if Amazon itself does get more broad stock it'll hit top 10 again.

When i got my DDR5 ram it was £100, now it is £500 so it wasn't always expensive. It is unfortunate that the AI bullshit sucked it all up making it 5 times the cost(or more) I did like the 12700k but figured as i only mainly game, it was time to try AM5. I would jump back to Intel in a second if it was worth it for my needs.

FouquinNope both LGA 1156 (15 months) and LGA 1200 (17 months) have it beat. Though technically LGA 1200 had a new refresh SKU in September 2025 so it may be disqualified. LGA 1851 is already 28 months old.

Socket 423, 11 months. And the only option why waste of sand Williamette.

kazuvikingNo nvme, 1 or two usb 3.0 ports, horrible memory support with basically no connectivity if you bought into am4 early.

When you need an 800€ board to make it compatible its horrible value. You need all the pcie bifurication and pcie muxes on AM5 as the 4 punny chipset lanes just cannot keep up with it.

You mean the top 2-5% of users who upgrades every year while the rest upgrades in 5-8 years.


Did we forget that AM5 was originally only supported till 2027 and only after the massive community outcry it was changed to 2029?

I've always found the socket longevity not mattering such a strange hill to die on. First of all everything you said is wrong. Then you just throw in "people who upgrade every year" which isn't really a thing.

If you bought into AM4 early with 16GB of RAM, you could keep your motherboard and upgrade your CPU to a 5000 series and 32GB of faster RAM later on on. Remember, the memory controller has been on the CPU forever. Sounds like a pretty awesome deal deal to me. And way less hassle.

Intel did it in the past so they could keep their older fabs busy making chipsets you would be forced to buy. Worked great for them. Those days are over and even Intel is caving with LGA 1954, why do you think that is? ARL-R is selling at fire sale prices and still gets beat by AMD, why is that?

Having a long lasting socket provides a great aftermarket of motherboards/CPU's later on in the secondhand market as well. Sounds very consumer friendly. It is also less e-waste. Seriously, what is not to like? Having options is a good thing. If there was some new chipset or feature that you just had to have, get a new board when you upgrade. If not, keep what you have. In what world is that bad?

FoulOnWhiteWhen i got my DDR5 ram it was £100, now it is £500 so it wasn't always expensive. It is unfortunate that the AI bullshit sucked it all up making it 5 times the cost(or more) I did like the 12700k but figured as i only mainly game, it was time to try AM5. I would jump back to Intel in a second if it was worth it for my needs.

Hence my reference in my first post on the topic, the industry situation. I got my 96GB kit for 218 and I didn't even own a DDR5 board at the time.