Thursday, January 10th 2019

NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang on Radeon VII: "Underwhelming (...) the Performance is Lousy"; "Freesync Doesn't Work"

PC World managed to get a hold of NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang, picking his thoughts on AMD's recently announced Radeon VII. Skirting through the usual amicable, politically correct answers, Jensen made his thoughts clear on what the competition is offering to compete with NVIDIA's RTX 2000 series. The answer? Vega VII is an "underwhelming product", because "The performance is lousy and there's nothing new. [There's] no ray tracing, no AI. It's 7nm with HBM memory that barely keeps up with a 2080. And if we turn on DLSS we'll crush it. And if we turn on ray tracing we'll crush it." Not content on dissing the competition's product, Jensen Huang also quipped regarding AMD's presentation and product strategy, saying that "It's a weird launch, maybe they thought of it this morning."
Of course, the real market penetration of the technologies Jensen Huang mentions is currently extremely low - only a handful of games support NVIDIA's forward-looking ray tracing technologies. That AMD chose to not significantly invest resources and die-space for what is essentially a stop-gap high-performance card to go against NVIDIA's RTX 2080 means its 7 nm 331 mm² GPU will compete against NVIDIA's 12 nm, 545 mm² die - if performance estimates are correct, of course.
The next remarks came regarding AMD's FreeSync (essentially a name for VESA's Adaptive Sync), which NVIDIA finally decided to support on its GeForce graphics cards - something the company could have done outright, instead of deciding to go the proprietary, module-added, cost-increased route of G-Sync. While most see this as a sign that NVIDIA has seen a market slowdown for its G-Sync, added price-premium monitors and that they're just ceding to market demands, Huang sees it another way, saying that "We never competed. [FreeSync] was never proven to work. As you know, we invented the area of adaptive sync. The truth is most of the FreeSync monitors do not work. They do not even work with AMD's graphics cards." In the wake of these word from Jensen, it's hard to understand the overall silence from users that might have their FreeSync monitors not working.

Reportedly, NVIDIA only found 12 out of 400 FreeSync-supporting monitors to support their G-Sync technology automatically in the initial battery of tests, with most panels requiring a manual override to enable the technology. Huang promised that "We will test every single card against every single monitor against every single game and if it doesn't work, we will say it doesn't work. And if it does, we will let it work," adding a snarky punchline to this matter with an "We believe that you have to test it to promise that it works, and unsurprisingly most of them don't work." Fun times. Source: PC World
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270 Comments on NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang on Radeon VII: "Underwhelming (...) the Performance is Lousy"; "Freesync Doesn't Work"

#126
Valantar
eidairaman1, post: 3973947, member: 40556"
Yep because NV was forced to by sales slumps, they didn't want to commit corporate suicide.
Still have to love (grudgingly) adopting a standard one day, and the next pissing on it as "not working" when talking about a competitor. Either you then adopted a non-working tech, or you're lying to make yourself look good. Neither are particularly smart.

Nvidia would require proprietary PSUs if they could pull it off. Oh, damn, I probably gave them an idea now. Sorry!
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#127
juiseman
Sooo...did Nvidia anounce any new product at CES? or just dis AMD?
This is just bad form.

I find it funney (mabye its wrong) that 3 big companys who have been overcharging for their products (Apple,Intel & Nvidia)
are finally getting a taste of competition. They did this to themselves and their share prices are reflecting this also.
I think they don't understand that people simply can't afford $1000+ Iphones, GPU's and CPU's anymore.
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#128
Sasqui
eidairaman1, post: 3973947, member: 40556"
Yep because NV was forced to by sales slumps, they didn't want to commit corporate suicide.
Are you referring to them "allowing" Free-sync to be enabled on G-sync equipped monitors?
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#129
Mad_foxx1983
tvamos, post: 3973749, member: 162758"
I've used 3 cards that support freesync with my monitor, zero issues. He knows g-sync is gonna sell less, one more reason for bitterness.
Same here. From and rx580 to Rx Vega 56. Zero issues. Always smooth gameplay
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#130
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
Sasqui, post: 3973956, member: 21173"
Are you referring to them "allowing" Free-sync to be enabled on G-sync equipped monitors?
Yup, they support vulkan after flack iirc...
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#131
Valantar
M2B, post: 3973949, member: 172252"
You're forgetting something very important, Vega 64 VS. GTX 1080 was 14 VS 16nm. Radeon VII VS. RTX 2080 is a completely different story, they're not gaining on nvidia, they're falling further behind.
"WhyCry" from VideoCardz says he has many sources stating that Navi was not good enough to compete and is delayed.
If the Radeon VII is the most AMD can offer within 2 years, their flagship will get beaten by nvidia's next gen XX70 class card, which is just sad.
Sure, there is a process advantage, and there is no doubt Nvidia's base arch is better in both perf/w and absolute perf (if you think I said otherwise, you misunderstood what "gaining" means) but Nvidia could have chosen to go wide and slow with the 20XX series on 12nm, adding SMs rather than adding RT and tensor cores. Instead, they chose stagnation. Nvidia had zero perf/w gain (and no perf/SM gain) moving from 16 to 12nm, just slightly smaller dice, so they're definitely not pulling away. They'll obviously gain perf when they move to 7nm, but that's likely still a year out (though I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to make their own $1200 GPUs obsolete within a year, frankly). Still, this buys AMD valuable time to improve their arch before this happened.

Strategically, this is an excellent move by AMD. Will be interesting to see how it plays out when the next generations arrive.
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#132
dogsbody
Dimi, post: 3973810, member: 66173"
Mind you, my 1440p 165hz gsync monitor only cost me $350. Granted its a TN panel but i use a ColorMunki display calibrator for color accuracy.
What is the point of color calibration on a TN display that only display colors correctly in a circle the center of which is at the screen normal intersecting your iris? Colors are badly distorted towards the edges of this circle and everywhere else (way beyond what lack of calibration would cause). TN is crap due to lousy view angles.
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#133
Anymal
Desperate moves, 2 years later.
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#134
Sasqui
dogsbody, post: 3973966, member: 180038"
What is the point of color calibration on a TN display that only display colors correctly in a circle the center of which is at the screen normal intersecting your iris? Colors are badly distorted towards the edges of this circle and everywhere else (way beyond what lack of calibration would cause). TN is crap due to lousy view angles.
Not to be flip or anything, but don't you turn your eyes or head when in front of your monitor? You certainly are correct about human peripheral color vision.
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#135
Anymal
Vayra86, post: 3973922, member: 152404"
You're new / not frequent here, its okay, but you can search my post history and see how well versed I am. I know precisely what it is compared to everything else.
You sure are. Just misleaded right now.
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#136
Valantar
dogsbody, post: 3973966, member: 180038"
What is the point of color calibration on a TN display that only display colors correctly in a circle the center of which is at the screen normal intersecting your iris? Colors are badly distorted towards the edges of this circle and everywhere else (way beyond what lack of calibration would cause). TN is crap due to lousy view angles.
I still remember the first time I connected my Dell U2711, which replaced a (not cheap) 1200p Samsung TN monitor back in 2010 or 2011 (damn, my monitor is eight years old!). Mind? Blown. There is no way on earth I'll ever go back to TN, and I'd much rather take 75Hz FS IPS than 144Hz FS TN. Heck, I'm waiting for money (and motivation) to replace my current 60Hz non-FS IPS with something actually worth the upgrade, when I could afford to replace it with a 90-120Hz FS TN tomorrow if I wanted to.
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#137
kapone32
Anyone who knows anything about the history of Nvidia would not be any way surprised by that comment. Jensen is one of the most evil executives in any industry. All i heard from him is Ray tracing this year with no mention of hair works......I guess that is going to way of Physx hehe
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#138
R0H1T
Valantar, post: 3973962, member: 171585"
Strategically, this is an excellent move by AMD. Will be interesting to see how it plays out when the next generations arrive.
Well if (some) of the rumor mill is to be believed, Navi should come out later this year - which frankly IMO would be just about perfect timing, considering it's been in development for such a long time.
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#139
Dr_b_
Ray Tracing RTX cards are a botched launch. The cost is astronomical for the only 2 parts that are truly faster than the Pascal cards, and the performance and availability in titles are lacking. This feature also doesn't improve anything for existing games which are 99.99% of all games that you would need a dGPU to play at decent framerates. We must however admit that its great to see new technology, but it cant be so expensive that no one can afford or wouldn't want to pay that much for what it delivers.
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#140
Nxodus
Valantar, post: 3973946, member: 171585"
Not among insecure gamer bros; what Huang is doing here is nothing more than virtue-signaling how "tough" he is. The funny thing is, only fundamentally insecure people act like this. Oh well.

Also, the entire term "virtue signaling" is BS - doing good is doing good, regardless of your intent is to be seen doing good. That might be seen as a character flaw, but your actions are still beneficial in the end. Acting like an ass just to look tough, on the other hand, just makes you look insecure, all the while benefiting nobody at all. Which of these is better, would you say?
Huang insecure? He has absolutely no reason to be insecure. He might be fed up with AMD armies sh*tting on the 20 series all over the internet, it might have gotten to him:) AMD armies expected a cheaper and better 2080 killer, and look what they got, an overpriced product with zero innovation and similar, or worse performance despite the die shrink. He won again. Don't tell me he's insecure because of VII.
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#141
PanicLake
Nxodus, post: 3973980, member: 183665"
Huang insecure? He has absolutely no reason to be insecure.
Falling stock beg to differ!
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#142
Valantar
Nxodus, post: 3973980, member: 183665"
Huang insecure? He has absolutely no reason to be insecure. He might be fed up with AMD armies sh*tting on the 20 series all over the internet, it might have gotten to him:) AMD armies expected a cheaper and better 2080 killer, and look what they got, an overpriced product with zero innovation and similar, or worse performance despite the die shrink. He won again. Don't tell me he's insecure because of VII.
Insecurity isn't rational. Doesn't matter what the reasoning is, this is not the behavior of a confident person. Period. This is the behavior of someone desperately trying to come off as confident (and blowing it).
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#143
GoldenX
Are all CEOs this bitchy? You already have a technological and performance advantage over your competition, plus a better branding in the name of non-tech people, there is no need to act as an stereotypical fanboy.
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#144
Nxodus
juiseman, post: 3973955, member: 182553"
Sooo...did Nvidia anounce any new product at CES? or just dis AMD?
This is just bad form.

I find it funney (mabye its wrong) that 3 big companys who have been overcharging for their products (Apple,Intel & Nvidia)
are finally getting a taste of competition. They did this to themselves and their share prices are reflecting this also.
I think they don't understand that people simply can't afford $1000+ Iphones, GPU's and CPU's anymore.
Because the Radeon VII is such a cheap deal, right? You people must accept a few facts: "Normies" still prefer to play on consoles or mobile. PC has become niche. Many times there were news about PC and PC component sales tanking. You can't stay afloat in a shrinking market by playing nice and cheap. I for one am very grateful theres still companies left who work in a niche market. I'm grateful anyone is even developing games for PC. Just look at the RGB craze. That's a deperate effort to get normies back into the PC market. "Just look at out flashy stuff, your PS4 can't do that". I'm pretty sure the times of cheap PC components are over, especially gaming ones. PC's are too complicated to average Joe.

GinoLatino, post: 3973984, member: 180136"
Falling stock beg to differ!
Stock market is a volatile market, even the Dow Jones has had some bad days, so what, should all americans commit sudoku when it falls 5%?
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#145
R0H1T
Sudoku, are you confusing it with something else :slap:
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#146
juiseman
Remember this is the launch price, i bet it will drop $150 or more after too long.
Then the price seems more attractive.
Will someone remind me of the RTX launch price?
If I remember the 2080 TI was around $1000 or more?
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#147
Nxodus
R0H1T, post: 3973997, member: 131092"
Sudoku, are you confusing it with something else :slap:
seppuku:D
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#148
medi01
Nxodus, post: 3973980, member: 183665"
Huang insecure? He has absolutely no reason to be insecure.
Great to see analysts with insights posting on this forum.
Would you mind to elaborate on Nv stock turbulence?
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#149
TheLaughingMan
So his argument is that AMD can compete with them in their proprietary hardware and software? That makes no sense what so ever.
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#150
Nxodus
medi01, post: 3974007, member: 158537"
Great to see analysts with insights posting on this forum.
Would you mind to elaborate on Nv stock turbulence?
you don't have to be an expert to see certain trends. Stuff like Facebook stocks dropping after the data leak scandals. Facebook is still here, unfortunately.
What about gold and silver? Few years ago prices literally collapsed, and behold, people are still buying precious metals. Markets adjusts, and life goes on. As long as Nvidia is still turning a profit there's no bankruptcy in sight, regardless of share values.
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