Thursday, January 10th 2019

NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang on Radeon VII: "Underwhelming (...) the Performance is Lousy"; "Freesync Doesn't Work"

PC World managed to get a hold of NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang, picking his thoughts on AMD's recently announced Radeon VII. Skirting through the usual amicable, politically correct answers, Jensen made his thoughts clear on what the competition is offering to compete with NVIDIA's RTX 2000 series. The answer? Vega VII is an "underwhelming product", because "The performance is lousy and there's nothing new. [There's] no ray tracing, no AI. It's 7nm with HBM memory that barely keeps up with a 2080. And if we turn on DLSS we'll crush it. And if we turn on ray tracing we'll crush it." Not content on dissing the competition's product, Jensen Huang also quipped regarding AMD's presentation and product strategy, saying that "It's a weird launch, maybe they thought of it this morning."
Of course, the real market penetration of the technologies Jensen Huang mentions is currently extremely low - only a handful of games support NVIDIA's forward-looking ray tracing technologies. That AMD chose to not significantly invest resources and die-space for what is essentially a stop-gap high-performance card to go against NVIDIA's RTX 2080 means its 7 nm 331 mm² GPU will compete against NVIDIA's 12 nm, 545 mm² die - if performance estimates are correct, of course.
The next remarks came regarding AMD's FreeSync (essentially a name for VESA's Adaptive Sync), which NVIDIA finally decided to support on its GeForce graphics cards - something the company could have done outright, instead of deciding to go the proprietary, module-added, cost-increased route of G-Sync. While most see this as a sign that NVIDIA has seen a market slowdown for its G-Sync, added price-premium monitors and that they're just ceding to market demands, Huang sees it another way, saying that "We never competed. [FreeSync] was never proven to work. As you know, we invented the area of adaptive sync. The truth is most of the FreeSync monitors do not work. They do not even work with AMD's graphics cards." In the wake of these word from Jensen, it's hard to understand the overall silence from users that might have their FreeSync monitors not working.

Reportedly, NVIDIA only found 12 out of 400 FreeSync-supporting monitors to support their G-Sync technology automatically in the initial battery of tests, with most panels requiring a manual override to enable the technology. Huang promised that "We will test every single card against every single monitor against every single game and if it doesn't work, we will say it doesn't work. And if it does, we will let it work," adding a snarky punchline to this matter with an "We believe that you have to test it to promise that it works, and unsurprisingly most of them don't work." Fun times. Source: PC World
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270 Comments on NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang on Radeon VII: "Underwhelming (...) the Performance is Lousy"; "Freesync Doesn't Work"

#151
HTC
In case nobody mentioned it yet:
The performance is lousy and there’s nothing new.
By Jensen Huang
What I would say is that we’re very excited about Radeon VII, and I would probably suggest that he hasn’t seen it yet.
By Lisa Su

Seems a ... diplomatic ... reply.

Found that here: can't find it's source :(
Posted on Reply
#152
kapone32
Nxodus, post: 3973989, member: 183665"
Because the Radeon VII is such a cheap deal, right? You people must accept a few facts: "Normies" still prefer to play on consoles or mobile. PC has become niche. Many times there were news about PC and PC component sales tanking. You can't stay afloat in a shrinking market by playing nice and cheap. I for one am very grateful theres still companies left who work in a niche market. I'm grateful anyone is even developing games for PC. Just look at the RGB craze. That's a deperate effort to get normies back into the PC market. "Just look at out flashy stuff, your PS4 can't do that". I'm pretty sure the times of cheap PC components are over, especially gaming ones. PC's are too complicated to average Joe.

That is interesting statement. In my opinion it only applies to the highest end of the market. If you didn't know AMD has released products like $99 APUs, That can play fortnite all day. Oh and while the AAA companies stocks are floundering Indie developers and ones not tied to corporate greed (the shareholders are more important to satisfy than customers) are excelling. Doubt me ask how many people are interested in Cyberpunk 2077 or Total War Warhammer 3 that comes from Sega a company that is doing quite well in today's volatile market. Why did I mention fortnite? I have received 3 requests in the last month to build fortnite capable PCs for friends and colleagues.


Stock market is a volatile market, even the Dow Jones has had some bad days, so what, should all americans commit sudoku when it falls 5%?
Posted on Reply
#153
Casecutter
mouacyk, post: 3973941, member: 128520"


GTX 11XX series will artifact with the wallpaper patterns behind him.
No, behind him is the mat he's playing Twister on.
Posted on Reply
#154
Nxodus
kapone32, post: 3974032, member: 181865"

while silly games like Fortnite can bring a few people over, I don't see a trend in the near future where PC gaming goes mainstream. AAA games produce meager sales like a few dozen millions. In a world of 7.7 billion people.
Posted on Reply
#155
XXL_AI
dude, get your act together, we know amd sucks but bashing them on a public scene as the ceo of the most innovative gpu brand in the history, relax a bit.
Posted on Reply
#156
scevism
I've just got a 55'' samsung tv with freesync built in 120fps with my r9 290x only at 1080p but works for me. WITH MY LEATHER JACKET ON LOL.....
Posted on Reply
#157
kapone32
Nxodus, post: 3974040, member: 183665"
while silly games like Fortnite can bring a few people over, I don't see a trend in the near future where PC gaming goes mainstream. AAA games produce meager sales like a few dozen millions. In a world of 7.7 billion people.
A few there are over 14 million players of fortnite and it is growing. A lot of those users are adults but the majority are kids who will get exposed to PC gaming. I have a friend who has been on consoles for the longest time. I helped him build a PC using a R7 2700x 1070Ti, NVME and SSD with a 1440P screen. Alll i can tell you is he has made statements like "now I see how gaminf magazines pictures looked so crisp"
Posted on Reply
#159
nickbaldwin86
love how everyone is beating on the stock market being down for NV

@ time of posting it is at 143.09 and UP
While AMD is DOWN @ 19.33 ... I would rather own stock in a company that is worth $143 than a company with $19. just food for thought people.

NVIDIA Corporation
NASDAQ: NVDA
143.09 USD +0.51 (0.36%)
Jan 10, 1:56 PM EST ·

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
NASDAQ: AMD
19.33 USD −0.86 (4.26%)
Jan 10, 1:55 PM EST
Posted on Reply
#160
Nxodus
kapone32, post: 3974049, member: 181865"
A few there are over 14 million players of fortnite and it is growing. A lot of those users are adults but the majority are kids who will get exposed to PC gaming. I have a friend who has been on consoles for the longest time. I helped him build a PC using a R7 2700x 1070Ti, NVME and SSD with a 1440P screen. Alll i can tell you is he has made statements like "now I see how gaminf magazines pictures looked so crisp"
nice of you to help him ascend:) We now need a few million more to help keep hardware prices down.

Sasqui, post: 3974052, member: 21173"
Take this with a grain of salt



source: https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/
grain of salt taken, still extremely worrisome
Posted on Reply
#161
XiGMAKiD
HTC, post: 3974028, member: 51238"
In case nobody mentioned it yet:



By Jensen Huang



By Lisa Su

Seems a ... diplomatic ... reply.

Found that here: can't find it's source :(
It's from PC World, link in this thread's news source
Posted on Reply
#162
geon2k2
this looks like:
... and the grapes are sour, said the fox when he saw that he could not reach them ...
or maybe:
... all this technology and these guys at amd crush us at compute, crush us at bandwidth with such an old technology and such small die size, a bit more than half of ours.

anyway pretty lame speech for a CEO, no diplomacy at all.
Posted on Reply
#163
Sasqui
Nxodus, post: 3974062, member: 183665"
grain of salt taken, still extremely worrisome
Gone from a majority to a healthy minority.

If it weren't for crypto, NVDA and AMD wouldn't be crapping their trousers at this point in time.
Posted on Reply
#164
Anymal
geon2k2, post: 3974064, member: 156730"
this looks like:
... and the grapes are sour, said the fox when he saw that he could not reach them ...
or maybe:
... all this technology and these guys at amd crush us at compute, crush us at bandwidth with such an old technology and such small die size, a bit more than half of ours.

anyway pretty lame speech for a CEO, no diplomacy at all.
It looks like: lol, 7nm, 300w tdp only 2080 or 1080ti performance from 2 years ago, no new features, but 16gb hbm2, for games...
Posted on Reply
#165
Vayra86
Nxodus, post: 3973931, member: 183665"
Those rumors are 100% false. Seriously, who would believe that any sane company would cannibalize its own products?
Its not a stretch for Nvidia to rebrand Pascal one time and rearrange the product stack with it. They can redo a Kepler refresh even, because there's GDDR6 now. Even up until very recently they've released 1060 versions we never saw before. Pascal "2" could become a value-oriented, non-RT GPU stack to secure those upgrades people have been sitting on/waiting for. It could also be Nvidia's answer to the Radeon 7 to compete with it on price.

Imagine you'd have a 1080ti right now. Your only option is moving to a 2080ti at nearly double the MSRP for a pretty marginal performance win. Not really the best route. And if I look at myself; there is absolutely NO reason for me to ditch my 1080. Only a value-oriented performance upgrade would put me on that path and right now all I can move to is an 800 dollar 2080 to even make a dent.

Regardless, they're rumors. Just saying, don't be surprised if it happens.
Posted on Reply
#166
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
kapone32, post: 3973973, member: 181865"
Anyone who knows anything about the history of Nvidia would not be any way surprised by that comment. Jensen is one of the most evil executives in any industry. All i heard from him is Ray tracing this year with no mention of hair works......I guess that is going to way of Physx hehe
If that's true- good riddance to rubbish

XXL_AI, post: 3974045, member: 182013"
dude, get your act together, we know amd sucks but bashing them on a public scene as the ceo of the most innovative gpu brand in the history, relax a bit.
Say that on the guys twitter directly, he cant see your comment here.
Posted on Reply
#167
Vayra86
Anymal, post: 3973969, member: 158578"
You sure are. Just misleaded right now.
I am, as always, ready to read your sound argumentation on that. So far you're not being very good at producing a post with substance. All I'm seeing is repetitive oneliners lacking data to back them up.
Posted on Reply
#168
Anymal
Vayra86, post: 3974088, member: 152404"
I am, as always, ready to read your sound argumentation on that. So far you're not being very good at producing a post with substance. All I'm seeing is repetitive oneliners lacking data to back them up.
Still waiting your argumentation why 60fps rtx on 1080p monitor with 350usd 2060 is fail for you? It wil get better and better and its new tehnology not just be better in rasterization. You should watch Jensens keynote on ces2019, explaind for plain minded as you.
Posted on Reply
#169
neatfeatguy
I think he went the very wrong way with his comments. They should have been more in line of how his top end cards are still a great value (some kind of PR spin to make them sound good for what they) and then commend AMD for bring up some friendly competition and how he hopes for more from them and yadda yadda yadda.
Posted on Reply
#170
Vayra86
Anymal, post: 3974091, member: 158578"
Still waiting your argumentation why 60fps rtx on 1080p monitor with 350usd 2060 is fail for you? It wil get better and better and its new tehnology not just be better in rasterization. You should watch Jensens keynote on ces2019, explaind for plain minded as you.
Troll confirmed. I already pointed that out extensively, start reading - no content, no worthwhile visual gain, etc etc

Besides, this isn't about 2060, but the high end.
Posted on Reply
#171
efikkan
Anymal, post: 3974076, member: 158578"
It looks like: lol, 7nm, 300w tdp only 2080 or 1080ti performance from 2 years ago.
To buyers, the only thing that actually matters is how well it performs, along with thermals, noise etc. What process they use, how many cores, what clocks, etc. shouldn't matter to buyers, the benchmarks should show the reality. But if AMD needs ~300W to match the performance level of RTX 2080 / GTX 1080 Ti, they need to offer up some other advantage to justify going with a TDP that much higher, e.g. lower price.

Strategically, I can't see any real good reasons why AMD releases this card. My best guess is they felt the need to get some attention in the market since they don't have anything else for a good while. This is similar to the "pointless" RX 590 released last year, released just to get another review cycle.

For the future, this doesn't look good. AMD just spent what might be the last "good" node shrink, and repurposed a GPU for the professional market, a GPU which is very expensive to make and taking up precious capacity on the 7nm node. If this was planned a long time ago, they would have made a GPU without full fp64 support and with GDDR6, then at least they could have sold it much cheaper. But with Vega 20 they are at a disadvantage, not only is the HBM2 more expensive, the die is too. And they even put 16GB on it, which is completely wasted for gaming. If they really wanted more than 8GB, they could have gone with 12GB, and at least made it a little cheaper.
Posted on Reply
#172
Anymal
He was oversurprised how lame VII is for a 7nm gpu and he was carried away, maybe few drinks before, they are all rich and cocky

Vayra86, post: 3974096, member: 152404"
Troll confirmed. I already pointed that out extensively, start reading - no content, no worthwhile visual gain, etc etc
How do you call VII than? Color me troll but you just make no sense with your statements. RT is the only new content, best visual gains in years.

efikkan, post: 3974098, member: 150226"
To buyers, the only thing that actually matters is how well it performs, along with thermals, noise etc. What process they use, how many cores, what clocks, etc. shouldn't matter to buyers, the benchmarks should show the reality. But if AMD needs ~300W to match the performance level of RTX 2080 / GTX 1080 Ti, they need to offer up some other advantage to justify going with a TDP that much higher, e.g. lower price.

Strategically, I can't see any real good reasons why AMD releases this card. My best guess is they felt the need to get some attention in the market since they don't have anything else for a good while. This is similar to the "pointless" RX 590 released last year, released just to get another review cycle.

For the future, this doesn't look good. AMD just spent what might be the last "good" node shrink, and repurposed a GPU for the professional market, a GPU which is very expensive to make and taking up precious capacity on the 7nm node. If this was planned a long time ago, they would have made a GPU without full fp64 support and with GDDR6, then at least they could have sold it much cheaper. But with Vega 20 they are at a disadvantage, not only is the HBM2 more expensive, the die is too. And they even put 16GB on it, which is completely wasted for gaming. If they really wanted more than 8GB, they could have gone with 12GB, and at least made it a little cheaper.
Along with thermals, noise,... well, tdp 300w is against these two. Price? Same as 2080 at least on the beginning. Customers are not stupid, market share is the evidence.
Posted on Reply
#173
Vayra86
Anymal, post: 3974099, member: 158578"
How do you call VII than? Color me troll but you just make no reason with your statements. RT is the only new content, best visual gains in years.
Ah I see, so your logic is that 2080 performance is now midrange? Maybe you got carried away, had a few drinks before and got all cocky?
Posted on Reply
#174
Anymal
Vayra86, post: 3974104, member: 152404"
Ah I see, so your logic is that 2080 performance is now midrange? Maybe you got carried away, had a few drinks before and got all cocky?
No argument then?
VII is good, 2080 is no new content, no visual gains,... seriously?
Posted on Reply
#175
Vayra86
Anymal, post: 3974108, member: 158578"
No argument then?
VII is good, 2080 is no new content, no visual gains,... seriously?
You really have reading issues, I already told you, skim back a few pages. Think of it as a treasure hunt!
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