Monday, June 29th 2020

AMD "Cezanne" APU to Stick with "Vega" iGPU, "Van Gogh" Gets RDNA2

The earliest reports on AMD's next-generation "Cezanne" APU silicon pointed at the possibility of the chip combining "Zen 3" CPU cores with a next-generation iGPU solution based on RDNA2 ("Navi 2#"). AMD plans to launch "Cezanne" in 2021, which makes it the immediate successor to "Renoir." A report by Igor's Lab has fresh details on "Cezanne." Apparently the chip sticks with the "Vega" graphics architecture on its iGPU. This doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same exact iGPU as the 8 CU version on "Renoir."

On the other hand, the "Van Gogh" silicon slated for 2021 is expected to receive RDNA2 graphics. It's important to note here that "Van Gogh" and "Cezanne" sit in the same product stack, and "Van Gogh" does not succeed "Cezanne." Rather, it's the codename for an entry-level APU, succeeding "Dali" (Athlon 3000G), which also means the RDNA2-based iGPU will be a lot slimmer than the "Vega" based one on "Cezanne." It's only by 2022 that AMD will have a performance-segment APU with RDNA2-based iGPU, with "Rembrandt." Find our older article getting into AMD's roadmaps here.
Source: Igor's Lab
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12 Comments on AMD "Cezanne" APU to Stick with "Vega" iGPU, "Van Gogh" Gets RDNA2

#1
Tomorrow
Ok so my theory is that they will skip RDNA1 completely because of scaling issues. That's why we never saw a 80CU 5900XT variant on the desktop. Too hot and would require too much power. The choice of foregoing RDNA2 for Cezanne is curious tho as both it and Van Gogh are at A0 so rougly at the same level in development. I would understand if Van Gogh was newer and RDNA2 did not make it into Cezanne before it was taped out but that does not seem the case.

Still it's dissapointing that APU's will largely keep using what many consider bad or at least inferior IP for the GPU portion for the next ~two years to come. Especially when even the new consoles will use RDNA2 and same with low power Van Gogh based laptops next year.

Rembrandt however seems to be shaping up a killer product - 5nm Zen4 + RDNA2. Unfortunately it's years away.
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#2
Xajel
Tomorrow
Ok so my theory is that they will skip RDNA1 completely because of scaling issues. That's why we never saw a 80CU 5900XT variant on the desktop. Too hot and would require too much power. The choice of foregoing RDNA2 for Cezanne is curious tho as both it and Van Gogh are at A0 so rougly at the same level in development. I would understand if Van Gogh was newer and RDNA2 did not make it into Cezanne before it was taped out but that does not seem the case.

Still it's dissapointing that APU's will largely keep using what many consider bad or at least inferior IP for the GPU portion for the next ~two years to come. Especially when even the new consoles will use RDNA2 and same with low power Van Gogh based laptops next year.

Rembrandt however seems to be shaping up a killer product - 5nm Zen4 + RDNA2. Unfortunately it's years away.
I don't think it was scaling issue, they just needed more time to scale it down and up, but they didn't have time as they focused most of their engineers to RDNA2 to accelerate it, they needed to get RDNA2 faster more than having 5900XT or even RNDA on APU's. So they made the tough choice to focus on RDNA2.

But, even though I would love to see RDNA in APU's ASAP, if they can VEGA to perform better and get it the new features of RDNA, and update the media engine. Then it's good enough, I mean with Ryzen 4000 APU's they brought better performance and efficiency than Ryzen 3000 APU's while using less CU's. The higher clocks and optimised worked very well. But, if the rumours are to be believed, Intel might finally caught up with AMD with their next gen. Xe iGPU's.. So AMD needs even better thing than what they already have in Ryzen 4000 APU's.
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#3
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
RDNA likely won't support DirectX 12 Ultimate where RDNA2 does. They didn't want to commit any resources to RDNA on APU and instead focused on RDNA2.
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#4
Tomorrow
Xajel
But, if the rumours are to be believed, Intel might finally caught up with AMD with their next gen. Xe iGPU's.. So AMD needs even better thing than what they already have in Ryzen 4000 APU's.
That's one of the reasons im dissapointed they still use Vega in Cezanne (if this rumors turn out to be true).
But im also biased. II never liked Vega aside from it's use of HBM in the mainstream and ditching analogue IO ports like DVI.
I've always liked pure gaming only architectures like Pascal or Navi. Instead of repurposed compute first architectures like Vega and Turing.

That being said im not an APU user myself as i have 3800X but i understand many people are and i often suggest APU's for my friends, coworkers etc.
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#5
BoboOOZ
Vega or RDNA, just give these APU's more graphical horsepower. Renoir is rather underwhelming from this viewpoint.
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#6
HD64G
Those names mean that Vega20 and Navi21 will have 20 and 21CUs respectively and will be quite potent APUs for 1080P with decent graphic settings imho.
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#7
BoboOOZ
HD64G
Vega20 and Navi21 will have 20 and 21CUs respectively and will be quite potent APUs for 1080P with decent graphic settings imho.
Where do you get those numbers? You know Navi 10 has 40 CU's right?
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#8
HD64G
BoboOOZ
Where do you get those numbers? You know Navi 10 has 40 CU's right?
Since Renoir has a Vega8 and the previous gen APU had a Vega11 in it, the codes for the GPU portions of the APUs depict the CUs in them. This pattern goes on for a few gens now and is giving away info like that.

And those codes do not mean the same for the discrete GPUs ofc as we already know.
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#9
BoboOOZ
HD64G
Since Renoir has a Vega8 and the previous-gen APU had a Vega11 in it, the codes for the GPU portions of the APUs depict the CUs in them. This pattern goes on for a few gens now and is giving away info like that.

And those codes do not mean the same for the discrete GPUs ofc as we already know.
You're mixing commercial names and code names. Vega 11 is a commercial name, navi21 is most probably a code name. Have you read the article? Van Gogh is an entry-level APU with 21 RDNA CUs?
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#10
watzupken
HD64G
Those names mean that Vega20 and Navi21 will have 20 and 21CUs respectively and will be quite potent APUs for 1080P with decent graphic settings imho.
If that is the case, the integrated Vega will be very potent. Considering the current Vega 8 on the Renoir allows people to game up to 1080p with low settings, a 20/21 CU Vega may easily allow mid settings at a smooth enough frame rate. However another point to consider is the RAM speed since the higher the resolution/ graphical settings, the higher the bandwidth requirement.
BoboOOZ
Vega or RDNA, just give these APU's more graphical horsepower. Renoir is rather underwhelming from this viewpoint.
I feel AMD's goal was less on the graphic side of things with Renoir, but to introduce more cores for their mobile parts. In particular their 15W processors. APU benefits mobile more than it does for desktops.
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#11
GoldenX
watzupken
I feel AMD's goal was less on the graphic side of things with Renoir, but to introduce more cores for their mobile parts. In particular their 15W processors. APU benefits mobile more than it does for desktops.
They are bandwidth limited with DDR4 anyway. The difference between the Vega 8 and 11 should be a lot higher than it is in reality.
Still, Vega one more time... AMD pulling an Intel on us.
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#12
MasutaMaestro
Van Gogh should be used for cheap laptops and thin laptops that do not have dedicated graphics including premium 2in1 laptops. I don't care that desktop Cezanne APUs won't likely have RDNA. Most desktop users don't need integrated graphics as much as laptop users do. Cezanne would be better off paired with dedicated graphics for desktops and high performance laptops.
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